GW2 should be P2P

[Allanon the Mystic]

For the millionth time:

Most F2P games do not sell power. They sell convenience (additional bag slots or experience boosts) and cosmetic items (costume gear/weapon skins or pets/mounts).

I don't get why everyone thinks all F2P games are pay to win, when in reality only a minority of Eastern MMO's use that kind of system.

They played too many F2P games that did so, other than that, I don't see where they get their misinformation .

[lannddo]

They are basically banking on the fact that a lot more people will purchase the game knowing that they do not have to pay a subscription fee. The problem with subscription MMO's is that it's hard to get current MMO players to switch. Most of us do not want to pay 2 subscription fee's, as well as the initial cost of the game. For those of you who play wow and didn't get SWTOR (im one of them), would you be more likely to try and play SWTOR if all you had to do was purchase the box for $60? I know I would have. I know many of you will say that most subscription MMO's offer a free month, but that's entirely different because if after that initial time period I decide I won't continue I basically just payed $60 for 30 days of play time and a drink coaster.

[Razeo]

For the millionth time:

Most F2P games do not sell power. They sell convenience (additional bag slots or experience boosts) and cosmetic items (costume gear/weapon skins or pets/mounts).

I don't get why everyone thinks all F2P games are pay to win, when in reality only a minority of Eastern MMO's use that kind of system.

I can agree with you here, i've tried alot of F2P mmo's back in the day and the only one that I know that gives you somewhat of an advantage if you have the RL money to burn is DFO (Dungeon Fighter Online.) Good 2D side-scrolling MMo but it just promotes you to spend hard earned cash to be better geared.

[Fencers]

They played too many F2P games that did so, other than that, I don't see where they get their misinformation .

Even the western MMOs which offer stat gear are not "Pay to Win". The stats are usually degrading, comparable or inferior to top end gear. Making the gear itself a convenient catch up. Which in actual practice of a game such as say, EQ2, works in the favor of all players as the game's progression cycles is long & EXTREMELY difficult. So you'd have no one to recruit as a top end guild endless you spent actual months getting them up to speed or conversely; as a new player would never see 90% of the game as it would take months to years of work to reach that same status.

The perception of "Pay to Win" in actual practice & commonality is more than just incorrect it is a foolish notion in many cases.

[theredviola]

For the millionth time:

Most F2P games do not sell power. They sell convenience (additional bag slots or experience boosts) and cosmetic items (costume gear/weapon skins or pets/mounts).

I don't get why everyone thinks all F2P games are pay to win, when in reality only a minority of Eastern MMO's use that kind of system.

I think it's because they were so controversial that it became a bad stigma, or stereotype, of F2P games that it unfortunately stuck.

Of all the F2P MMO's I've even glanced at, I haven't seen any with a "pay to win" system. At worst, it's the "pay for convenience" that you mentioned Edge.

[Lillpapps]

Even the western MMOs which offer stat gear are not "Pay to Win". The stats are usually degrading, comparable or inferior to top end gear. Making the gear itself a convenient catch up. Which in actual practice of a game such as say, EQ2, works in the favor of all players as the game's progression cycles is long & EXTREMELY difficult. So you'd have no one to recruit as a top end guild endless you spent actual months getting them up to speed or conversely; as a new player would never see 90% of the game as it would take months to years of work to reach that same status.

The perception of "Pay to Win" in actual practice & commonality is more than just incorrect it is a foolish notion in many cases.

EQ2 is a very bad example of a game that isnt P2W though. Since the cash shops have consumables that give you 40% hp 20% attack speed. EQ2 in NA is one of the few games I know of that is P2W atm.

[Catforum]

Super tired of subs

[luedieniel]

Sorry, would rather spend £9 a month on a Game I still enjoy then potentially have to spend more on a so-called free to play game so that I can remain competitive.

There is clearly a lack of information here on your part.
For starters, GW2 is following the same bussiness model as a very successfull precessor called, not surprisingly: Guild wars.
Guild wars did not support pay to win and the most major thing you can obtain in it, aside from skills(all availible with little effort without paying), would be the part where you can spend 6.99£ per character slot and jump all the way from 10 base slots, to a hefty 26!
Not much of a pay to win situation.

There are tons of pay2win games out there, but this is just a poor show from your part, do some research before blurting out silly claims that you've obviously not bothered to investigate wether or not they're actually valid or not.

[G-rated]

This is not a "Bash Blizzard" thread, knock it off.

To be completely honest, I think you should just close this thread because that's what this thread is going to turn into because in my honest opinion it was a stupid Original post even though I try to stay open minded towards everyone's thoughts at first. But GW2 should NOT be P2P because we want to keep GW just like GW1 was. Free to Play. Which is why a lot of us GW veterans bought and played GW1 when it first came out after WoW because it was Free to Play. Making GW2 P2P would be a disgraceful homage to GW1. I dont want and will not buy a game and then pay a fee every few weeks or every month just so that I can keep playing it no matter if the money is going to a good cause. I have a whole lot more to say about this but will just keep it to myself. And THAT'S only SOME of my opinion.

[Korgoth]

I hate the misconceptions about free to play and pay to play. With GW2 you have to pay to play the game, you just pay once! You own the game and can play it until they shut down the servers. It's not free to play when there is a $60 entrance fee. Which reminds me of the stupid press coverage of SWTOR where they were saying it was $14.99 after the 30 day trial; and I just want to write in to their editor in all caps, ITS NOT A TRIAL IF YOU PAY $60 FOR IT!

If they sell enough copies they can stay in business without a monthly subscription fee. Though I do expect them to do more expansions then Blizzard does. 1 per year probably.

Free to play means no paying them at all for access to the game.

Pay to play means paying them, and its a rather crappy thing to say. Subscription based, or Single payment would be better ways of saying it.

GW2 is a single payment setup, like most studio video games.
WoW is a Subscription based setup.
Age of Conan is a Free to play game.

[grandpab]

People really need to stop calling GW2 f2p.

[Borzo]

If GW2 is "F2P" like everyone is saying... then please PM me and send me a free copy of GW2. In return for the game key/license I'll give you... my sincerest thanks and appreciation. How's that for a good deal? Hell, if you get it to me within 1 week of launch, I'll even throw in a bonus $5 to show my thanks!

[Kryos]

GW2 is not f2p because you have to buy the game. It's "pay-once-play-forever" and I like that popf concept.

[Allanon the Mystic]

If GW2 is "F2P" like everyone is saying... then please PM me and send me a free copy of GW2. In return for the game key/license I'll give you... my sincerest thanks and appreciation. How's that for a good deal? Hell, if you get it to me within 1 week of launch, I'll even throw in a bonus $5 to show my thanks!

No one who actually knows said it was F2P, IT IS B2P. Read more than just the 1st page. Nice try being witty though.

B2P is like buying a Console Game like Skyrim, you buy it once and don't pay for anything later.

[Pua]

Jeff Strain’s commentary is telling with regard to why ArenaNet love their games, as well as a less-obvious allusion toward the fact that players can make good decisions by themselves. Ultimately, players will know what they find fun better than anyone else.

For an expanded version of my own opinions on what I term “the subscription swindle”, feel free to read my blog post about it.

But let’s be clear:

Subscription fees only exist because we, as players, allow them to.

It’s proven beyond doubt that they are not necessary for customer service, stable servers, bug fixes, regular content or proper class development. In fact, it could easily be argued that things like content or class development are hampered by a subscription fee that essentially forces players to take what they’re given. Another illusion is that your subscription gives you a voice on development issues. This is, of course, patent rubbish.

From the Cataclysm box alone (an EXPANSION, not a new game), Blizzard made £360 million. That’s £360 million. Do we honestly believe that money has gone back into the game over the past 14 months?

Of course not.

Each of us pay £108 a year, or slightly less if you buy month-bundles, on top of expansion boxes and the original game box. Nobody, and I mean nobody, has gotten their money’s worth from World of Warcraft. If you’ve paid that money and had an absolute blast while doing so, you still haven’t gotten your money’s worth because you’ve essentially poured £108 of your money away.

People saying “£108 is just a good night out, so it’s dirt cheap” are missing the point. It’s not an either/or comparison.

You could, and should, have gotten exactly the same game and kept that money.

Instead, millions of players have paid for months on end with nothing to do thanks to disposable content or, in the case of Dragon Soul, bad content.

Whether or not SW:TOR or Tera are the last big subscription MMO’s is impossible to say, and it’s not an issue I’d tackle with any comfort. But Guild Wars 2 could absolutely, and unequivocally, smash this belief in the necessity of subscription fees, making it look almost as irrelevant to online gaming as Justin Bieber is to masculinity.

Unfortunately, we also know that some players, in spite of massively overwhelming evidence to the contrary, will still vacantly recite that “u need subs just cuz”.

Luckily, there are still plenty of companies willing to fleece these rubes.

[terrahero]

Whether its worth it or not is subjective. I could argue the same for going out to a bar and getting wasted, you are literally pissing it away and get to feel like crap the day after. But people do it because they still enjoy it. Or a Collectors Edition of a game, was it really that hard to give you a virtual item and a track of the music? Ofcourse not. That didnt cost them an extra 20 or 40 big ones.

The only thing you can say is that you are paying EXTRA money, money for which the developer has to do absolutely nothing. If its worth it to you to spend this extra money on a game, is subjective. Some say yes, some say no. Eventually more and more people are getting sick of paying a lot for a game and stop doing it.

[Repefe]

The worst thing about subscription based games is you give $100, $200, $500 to the developer and at the end once you stop paying them ... you lose everything. All the rpg progress, all the time invested in the game vanishes the second you stop paying the subscription. That's such a FU moment. Using WoW as example ... I paid for WotLK, I paid for Ulduar, I paid for ToC (thats whas subscription is for right ? to get more content) I paid for ICC, I paid for Cata, I paid for Firelands ... $500-$1000 spent and now that I don't pay ... I got nothing. How awesome is that.

GW model is I pay for one thing I keep it ... forever. Nobody will stop me from playing what I paid for. Nobody will demand ransom from me to access characters I spend hundreds of hours creating.

Long term commitment to subscription based MMO ? Thanks, but I will pass.

P.S. Once TOR goes b2p I will take a look at it again.

[Allanon the Mystic]

Whether its worth it or not is subjective. I could argue the same for going out to a bar and getting wasted, you are literally pissing it away and get to feel like crap the day after. But people do it because they still enjoy it. Or a Collectors Edition of a game, was it really that hard to give you a virtual item and a track of the music? Ofcourse not. That didnt cost them an extra 20 or 40 big ones.

The only thing you can say is that you are paying EXTRA money, money for which the developer has to do absolutely nothing. If its worth it to you to spend this extra money on a game, is subjective. Some say yes, some say no. Eventually more and more people are getting sick of paying a lot for a game and stop doing it.

It's not the question of 'if we should spend this money per month', it's the 'is there a need to spend this money per month' which isn't subjective or opinionated. It has been proven and a fact that companies do not need to do a subscription based game in order to be successful, or need that money for updates/content and other such things.

[Pua]

It's not the question of 'if we should spend this money per month', it's the 'is there a need to spend this money per month' which isn't subjective or opinionated. It has been proven and a fact that companies do not need to do a subscription based game in order to be successful, or need that money for updates/content and other things.

Thank you for understanding with such clarity; alas, it's a shame others cannot get past the simplest of concepts.

[Deleted]

The worst thing about subscription based games is you give $100, $200, $500 to the developer and at the end once you stop paying them ... you lose everything. All the rpg progress, all the time invested in the game vanishes the second you stop paying the subscription. That's such a FU moment. Using WoW as example ... I paid for WotLK, I paid for Ulduar, I paid for ToC (thats whas subscription is for right ? to get more content) I paid for ICC, I paid for Cata, I paid for Firelands ... $500-$1000 spent and now that I don't pay ... I got nothing. How awesome is that.

So, I bought this hotdog. Then I ate it. Now I have nothing!

I'm not saying that subscription based is the way to go (I like to keep my money whenever possible thank you very much), but your example was not much good.