1. #20021
    Deleted
    s4. How you have fallen.

  2. #20022
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1784169252
    Perfect game showing how useless she is when you play around her. Granted she won this game, but not because of her. Made a couple of mistakes, most notable of which letting them win the game while Ember was DCed for 3 minutes and nobody paused, but that's Reborn for you.

    She can certainly win mid against just about any hero. I think it's funny, I was saying Lina mid was godly even before they buffed dragon slave. Now that it can one shot ranged creeps, WAOW, what a broken mid pick. You literally can't stop her from getting minimum 2 creeps per wave, 3 really if she's smart about it, which means she is pretty much guaranteed her zero skill eul's combo by like 12 minutes. Nice.

    All that said, she's only good for one kill, and plenty of items can prevent it. Linkens, glimmer on an ally, someone can simply stun her when she eul's you, you can BKB when you land and kill her, lots of ways to deal with Lina. She can't zipzap. Probably the only thing I'd really consider broken about her, aside from her guaranteed win mid lane, is having 460 movespeed with brown boots and eul's because of her passive, but that's more eul's needing a nerf than Lina.

    she still did her job, huskar useless and she also rekt bloodseeker

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1739951747

    perfect example of how storm can be deal with, pick lockdown + am
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  3. #20023
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    she still did her job, huskar useless and she also rekt bloodseeker

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1739951747

    perfect example of how storm can be deal with, pick lockdown + am
    Did you actually watch the replay? Lina did nothing all game, most of Huskar's deaths were to Slark which is why he's so fed. Seeker also did fine, honestly our team was set up to win before I fed gem misjduging repel duration and then we fed gem again when ember was DCed and reconnected right when we told his hero to pass gem to me, causing him to run down mid and die with it. We lost because of Slark and no other reason, we didn't have any AoE to stop him during his ult and he had omni to protect him from rupture initiations.


    7k MMR game with 4 stunners against Storm? Don't even try to use that as evidence. I don't really give a shit how Storm does in the pros (even though the data shows he is still one of the best heroes in the game), the hero is pretty much unstoppable at 5k bracket because people don't have the coordination necessary to stop him.

    dotabuff.com/players/93874877
    Here you go, 8 losses in a row to Storm. Admittedly, Storm isn't the only problem, I get total shitlords on my team every single game, and I don't exclude myself. After all, you can pretty much predict who wins the game in 6.84 just by looking at which team has more of the 10 or so broken heroes in the game, and this list of losses is no exception. Since I refuse to pick overpowered heroes, I am pretty much guaranteed to lose every game. Sad what dota has become, I'm pretty sure League is more balanced at this point.

    At least one of the losses I counterpicked Silencer for shits and he fed all game, sadly 3 of his allies had godlike streaks at the same time and Silencer is still a shit hero so I was just a walking pile of gold all game.

    I would say maybe I'm just terrible at this game and deserve to be 4k MMR, but the sad fact is that I had 80%+ winrate in solo ranked before 6.84 came out, and I haven't won a single game since then. I keep picking the same heroes, but they're just shit heroes now. You can say part of being a "good player" is knowing what heroes to pick, but that's just the problem with 6.84. You don't counterpick, you don't try to set up team composition and draft well, you simply pick the same 10 broken ass heroes for free MMR. Most boring patch in a long time, I GREATLY preferred trolhohaha to this. At least those heroes didn't auto-win against other heroes, plenty of heroes could stop Troll and Sniper is one of the easiest to gank heroes in the game.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-11 at 11:12 PM.

  4. #20024
    kay you're crazy if u prefer troll/sniper over meta heroes atm.

    I just clicked one of ur games, since 2 others i clicked there wasn't a storm

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1784361985

    how is it fuking storm being op? its more ur teammates being awful, that gyro. bloodseeker wtf.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  5. #20025
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    kay you're crazy if u prefer troll/sniper over meta heroes atm.

    I just clicked one of ur games, since 2 others i clicked there wasn't a storm

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1784361985

    how is it fuking storm being op? its more ur teammates being awful, that gyro. bloodseeker wtf.
    Too far back, this was party ranked not solo. Storm was in all but 3 of my losses and 2 of those losses we simply lost to cykacyka instead, the NA game was the only game I'd consider "fair" and it was ruined by a DC. Also, surprise surprise that it was a much more fun and better game when there was no Storm or BS on the enemy team. Sadly it took having BS on my team to even half way balance out the idiot huskar but whatever.

    Sorry for the rant, but I just cannot fathom how anyone prefers this patch to any of the previous patches. In .83 you saw troll/sniper every other game, but people pretty much picked whatever after that. Now you get 4 or 5 of the exact same heroes game after game, every game just blends together and becomes one giant spectator sport watching the people who picked those heroes have fun trampling everyone else. Good luck being a support in this meta, too.

    I'm honestly about ready to first pick storm and jungle at level 1 every single game just so I can prove how zero skill this hero is. BS and BH are probably the next biggest disease on the game, Lesh is pretty strong but you can at least pick AM, which is probably what I should be doing instead of letting the designated team feeder have him every game.



    Also, I do realize I've had absolutely shit luck with teammates these past couple of days, but I really try to avoid blaming my losses on that, regardless of how true it is. The real fact of 6.84 is that if you aren't mid or hard carry you essentially have zero impact on whether you win or not. You simply cannot win as a roamer when your mid loses to enemy Leshrac and he gets 10 minute bloodstone, he will 1v5 your team and there's no "outplay"ing it. Some of these games I picked terrible heroes and wasn't much help to the team, but even in the games where I did great, it just didn't matter, our safe lane gets zero farm and our mid loses his 1v1 and there's just no way to come back from it, you can't farm for your carry, if he sucks at farming you just have to accept the loss. It really speaks volumes that all the people who say this patch is fine are typically people who always play mid or safe lane and are totally okay with playing the same 3 heroes for 250 games straight.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-11 at 11:40 PM.

  6. #20026
    Deleted
    This is indeed the mid patch. Mid has the most impact and requires the most skill right now to carry when you're at your true MMR (when you can't just roll people over by being just better).

    On another note, I hate games where you build a super strong lead but you can't finish the game and the enemy team just runs around as 5. Those games just make me want to kill myself.

  7. #20027
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    On another note, I hate games where you build a super strong lead but you can't finish the game and the enemy team just runs around as 5. Those games just make me want to kill myself.
    so 6.83 pmuch?


    idk I actually like this patch, all the mids can be deal with.. yea even lesh/bs arent half as cancerous as 6.83 was. it was troll/sniper everygame and you couldn't end it cuz 1 teamfight lost and they would've the same networth as you, it was worse than playing vs techies atm.

    being support this patch isn't that bad, dazzle winterwyvern bounty hunter es r really good. and you can do more to help than before having good supports is the key to win atm, buying glimmer cape and solar crest for ur cores. yeah we've storm now, but before it was sniper, tinker that made supports players kill themselves.

    I can't believe anyone would prefer 6.83 over this patch, this patch is okay and there were meta heroes all the patches people prefer to pick them but you can always go with w.e and still win.

    I am too high to write correctly atm

    then again, we're like 4-5? months into this patch and we need another patch soon.
    Last edited by EqualWin; 2015-09-12 at 12:39 AM.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  8. #20028
    Deleted
    In pubs, any mid is easily dealt with. Facing Sniper was 100% more annoying than facing Leshrac or Lina on lane. The two things that are cancer about this patch are Huskar and Techies. The rest I can deal with fine.

  9. #20029
    Stop picking heroes that Husk counters :P
    Hero is paper against anyone with pure damage or hard right clicks. Slardar for example. I admit, the problem with those heroes is that they aren't mid heroes, so you're setting yourself up for a guaranteed loss anyway when your mid blows.



    I still don't see how you can say the current mid fotms aren't as bad as troll/sniper. Troll is a melee hero who can only right click, that's all he does, and he needed a LOT of farm to be able to take on a team. Sniper was the same way, extremely fragile, sure he had huge DPS but he still ran around with 1400 health late game, any hero that could jump on him (lol le storm spirit) could feed off him pretty easily. The issue with 6.83 was that it was the comeback gold patch, which meant Sniper could hold high ground forever, THAT was the issue with the hero. High ground defense no longer exists in 6.84, Leshrac runs into your team and your core towers and kills all of you in seconds and there's nothing you can do about it because you didn't pick Leshrac.

    And I don't even think Leshrac is at the top of this meta, he's just the best example of "heroes that are better in every single imaginable way than their alternatives." Overpowered mid/nukers/gankers > overpowered carrys. Right clicks aren't cancer, being global'd is cancer. Sniper and Troll were also both shit at farming, Leshrac/storm/TA/QOP are gods. You usually had ~30 minutes to have fun before the 6.83 meta crushed the game, I am eating plenty of losses by 10-15 minutes in 6.84 because their mid has already snowballed to 1v5 status. We NEVER got raxed at 18 minutes in .83, it happens every other game in .84. Also, since high ground is as hard as ever to convincingly win, and the comeback gold still exists, most teams will secure the win in the first 20 minutes and then spend the next 35 ganking and farming until they know they can't possibly lose, which means you have to suffer through every loss twice as long as you used to.

    The only thing I can think of that was worse about .83 is that it was the lane control patch. Lane control has pretty much evaporated now. Most common mid picks simply nuke down the wave and go jungle in the downtime or secure runes, which means even if you get counterpicked and outlaned you can farm under your tower 90% of the time, where Sniper would sit on his side of the river and deny every creep instead, ruining your game. It's also never been easier to offlane, most safe lanes run solo now with roaming supports and jungles so you can even farm, at worst you can get experience because zoning has all but disappeared since trilanes are dead. Early game is honestly completely meaningless in pubs, as long as you don't outright get shit on you can come back with good fights and farming patterns. This makes 6.84 much "easier" and more "enjoyable" for most laners, as sitting at your tower watching the enemy trilane pull and deny every creep was, indeed, quite boring.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-12 at 01:09 AM.

  10. #20030
    troll shit at farming? lmao, he could flash farm well ez roshans and stack ancients, also did u already forget the perma bash? he having a blink/sb and ulting and you couldn't do shit. plus skady+syy debuffs.


    depends on which items sniper went, phase mom syy skady bkb. he'd be pretty tanky also gl 1v1 him with skady+syy debuff you couldn't even move. add a maelstrom for flash farm, or well you didnt even need to farm just defend highground get few kills and u'll have the same farm the enemy am.

    and I disagree right clickers are just as cancer, why? beause they only have to right click.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  11. #20031
    Deleted
    Huskar is always last picked in ranked.

    Troll was annoying because the moment you were in his melee range you would never win the fight. Troll just needed to get close to someone and that person was dead. And Sniper was just cancer in the mid lane. Laning against that hero was like laning against an OD when he wasn't nerfed. You couldn't win no matter what. Lina, Leshrac, QoP, TA are all beatable mid.

  12. #20032
    also lets not forget jug, jakiro.. ogre venge in 6.83 iirc
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  13. #20033
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Huskar is always last picked in ranked.

    Troll was annoying because the moment you were in his melee range you would never win the fight. Troll just needed to get close to someone and that person was dead. And Sniper was just cancer in the mid lane. Laning against that hero was like laning against an OD when he wasn't nerfed. You couldn't win no matter what. Lina, Leshrac, QoP, TA are all beatable mid.
    Yeah, but Troll still had to get into melee range. Leshrac can nuke your entire team from across the screen, Storm and QOP get into melee range instantly. Bloodseeker has a 12 second "fuck you" spell that he can cast from across the screen. That's the issue with these heroes and this meta, there's no avoiding them or outplaying them. They are GOING to do the stuff that they do, all you can hope to do is survive it and do even more bullshit to them. All of these cancer heroes can also disengage from bad fights, Troll eating a viper or SD ult had to sit there and fight or die for the most part, though him having 500 movespeed with phase and SY was semi retarded, it's still not the 800 movespeed cyka gets and it's still not ball lightning. Notice I don't cry about Leshrac or Lina much, that's because you can actually stomp those heroes into the ground. I never cried about troll or sniper, other than the fact that it was boring to see them every game, but I accept that sheep will always flock to the heroes the pros think are good. The difference is, this patch, the pros are absolutely right, the heroes that are on top are absolutely WAY stronger than the rest.

    I've seen a decent amount of husk lately, but not near the level of storm/lesh/BS. Those heroes are 100% or damn close, husk is like 30% or so for me probably.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-12 at 01:22 AM.

  14. #20034
    I didn't know people complained about supports. What was so bad about venge/jakiro? I understand ogre being annoying but were you really getting worked up about swaps?

  15. #20035
    Deleted
    You haven't faced the true Huskar pickers yet. Those who know when to pick him when you got nothing to deal with it and then can actually play the hero.

    Bloodseeker is actually so easy to deal with. He dies way too fast with a badly used Q on himself. The only thing cancer about him is laning aginst him when everyone on your team stays at 30% HP.

    Leshrac and QoP and Storm can be shut down on lane because of their inherent squishiness. Leshrac still needs a Bloodstone before he gets tanky and you can easily shut him down before that and most mid players (anyone below 6k) don't know how to come back. Storm and QoP same thing. If you catch a QoP that is underfarmed she just dies. Same with Storm and Leshrac and Lina. A Troll? Nope. If he somehow manages to get to you you're dead, even if you got 5k gold on him. I remember playing QoP and I had an Orchid i think against a Troll with like Phase Boots and I thought "hey, let's just Blink, Orchid, Scream, Ult him and hit him to death". Nope. Troll survives with like 100 HP, slows you, runs at you and kills you cause you miss all your attacks and get stunned.

  16. #20036
    Quote Originally Posted by Trape View Post
    I didn't know people complained about supports. What was so bad about venge/jakiro? I understand ogre being annoying but were you really getting worked up about swaps?
    ogre was cancer, venge well, she has everything and annoying swap she wasn't that bad but i am saying she was really good.

    jakiro offlane was annoying af, support not that much unless he farms.

    - - - Updated - - -

    bs is cancer but if you pick heroes like tiny lina qop etc (with burst) also LC wk r pgood vs him.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  17. #20037
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    So it's Reborn now...
    How do you like it actually?
    Reborn is doo doo butter.

    Well, the graphics are nice now, but like, I don't like the interface of Reborn honestly that much...and the bugs nonstop like people said. I also haven't had a game yet where someone hasn't abandoned.

  18. #20038
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Leshrac and QoP and Storm can be shut down on lane because of their inherent squishiness. Leshrac still needs a Bloodstone before he gets tanky and you can easily shut him down before that and most mid players (anyone below 6k) don't know how to come back. Storm and QoP same thing. If you catch a QoP that is underfarmed she just dies. Same with Storm and Leshrac and Lina. A Troll? Nope. If he somehow manages to get to you you're dead, even if you got 5k gold on him. I remember playing QoP and I had an Orchid i think against a Troll with like Phase Boots and I thought "hey, let's just Blink, Orchid, Scream, Ult him and hit him to death". Nope. Troll survives with like 100 HP, slows you, runs at you and kills you cause you miss all your attacks and get stunned.
    I've literally never seen a Leshrac get shut down. Same with Storm, it's too easy to simply go hide in the jungle, those heroes can clear every camp out and nuke every creep wave you try to push, if you don't have a hero like clock that can jump on them you're never going to kill them unless they overextend.

    I mean, you can make the same argument about literally any hero. "If they have no items or levels they die easy." Okay, yeah, we can agree on that. How do you propose you stop the best farming heroes in the game that are also extremely mobile from doing so? Ganking jungle isn't really an option when your team loses one or more lanes and they can win the team fight just as easily as you can. You must get much, much better allies than I do, in my shitcan pub league people can barely last hit. People get uninterrupted jungles and still somehow can't farm faster than 150 gpm.

    Look at this
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1786695945
    I finally picked a real hero and look at that, we won. Storm got predictably WRECKED mid and our seeker somehow lost jungle against himself, but there's a reason BH is the highest winrate hero in the game. Just sad that this is what it takes to win a game of dota now.

    The secret to Troll was to simply stop trying to 1v1 him. Yes, he's the absolute king of duels, we all know that and knew that the entire patch. You deserve to die if you intentionally blink near him. You can simply...not blink near him when it's a 1v1 situation and you have no backup or stun. The same isn't true if the roles are reversed, you can't simply not blink on top of Storm or QoP or euls lesh or lina, they initiate on you and since two of them can teleport across the map and the other two have 500 movespeed, it's pretty hard to avoid.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-12 at 03:02 AM.

  19. #20039
    Deleted
    I shut down Leshracs and Storms every day. By shut down I mean them having like Brown boots at level 8-9. They just die if they fight. 15-16 min Bloodstone is good for Storm. If shut down he maybe gets it at 21-25 minutes. That's plenty of time to deal with him. By 16 min you can have Blink Desolator on TA. What can a Leshrac with Bottle, Arcane Boots (needs it for sustain/Point Booster do against that? He literally dies in 2 hits.

    People don't jungle. When are you going to understand that.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2015-09-12 at 03:15 AM.

  20. #20040
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    I shut down Leshracs and Storms every day. By shut down I mean them having like Brown boots at level 8-9. They just die if they fight.

    People don't jungle. When are you going to understand that.
    Watch this game, Storm got "shut down," he didn't have his first item (Orchid) until like...30 minutes? But it didn't matter. Admittedly, track gold is a huge part of that, but the fact remains that he ended up more farmed than anyone on the enemy team (except their whiteknight lesh picker) 10 minutes later. And, honestly, the only reason it took him so long to get Orchid was because our jungle was being farmed out by seeker the whole time, so he literally had nowhere to farm.

    EU really must be a different world, because this is literally how every game goes for me:
    Two mids clash, one wins, one loses. Winner pushes t1s with his team and tries to gank. Loser farms jungle and catches up. Now both are gods and everyone else cries and begs for mercy in team fights. Whichever hard carry has farmed more at this point usually wins the game for his team after the mids have finished slaughtering ~3 heroes each by themselves each before finally being overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. "Shutting down" hasn't existed in several patches, people can always find farm. In fact, since creep gold was nerfed, it is MORE MEANINGLESS THAN EVER to win your lane. Team fights matter so much more, and objectives. It's also why BH is so absurd, every gold mechanic change is another buff to track.

    Having been the highest and lower MMR on my team throughout this experience the past few days and played with a range frm 4200 to 5600 MMR in NA servers, I can safely say that the difference between 4500 and 5500 is virtually nonexistant. 80% of the players at this MMR know how to find farm, and as long as they aren't making outright mistakes, i.e. tilting, will get items and you cannot possibly coordinate a public team well enough to stop it. It would take repeated smoke ganks and extremely aggressive warding and counter warding to make that magic happen, and if you can spam smoke all you want, nobody will come, they'd rather farm. Some heroes are much slower at farming, and will fall massively behind and never catch up if they have a bad early game. None of those heroes get picked.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-12 at 03:17 AM.

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