1. #20201
    Deleted
    This whole discussion about Storm started because I linked a game where I said TA was a counter to Storm and that I said people don't know how to deal with Storm and that's why they lose to the hero.

  2. #20202
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    This whole discussion about Storm started because I linked a game where I said TA was a counter to Storm and that I said people don't know how to deal with Storm and that's why they lose to the hero.
    As a support how do you deal with storm is what i would ask.

    Okay you can beat him mid, how does a support who gets killed in 2 seconds stop him is the more important question.

  3. #20203
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    As a support how do you deal with storm is what i would ask.

    Okay you can beat him mid, how does a support who gets killed in 2 seconds stop him is the more important question.
    Alone? You can't. The same way you can't stop a TA as a support alone. You need a team. I don't play support either so I don't think I'm the right person to ask. But generally how good supports play against my Storm is: They are aware of the map and where I am. If I'm off the map they don't stand on a lane farming (like many 4k supports do) and die and then blame "lolz OP Storm solo kills me from full HP". They TP fast when I jump on their cores and counter gank me. They sit behind cores they think will be ganked. They throw an occasional gank before level 6. They play heroes with stuns. Storm tries to solo kill your mid? Be a Lion and come out of fog and hex him and counter kill him. Counter-killing is one of the most important concepts against Storm. Lysah will say Storms just jump out after they go for the kill but I, as a seasoned Storm player, will tell you that isn't realistic. Lysah will then say I'm just bad at Storm but somehow Storms at 4k MMR play better than me and do that stuff.

    Positioning is key against Storm. I've played Storm through all brackets and as you go up in MMR you notice that you find less and less free support kills and you get punished more often when you try to go for solo kills.

    Playing support is all about how well you enable your cores I think. But don't take my word for it.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2015-09-14 at 06:00 PM.

  4. #20204
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    As a support how do you deal with storm is what i would ask.

    Okay you can beat him mid, how does a support who gets killed in 2 seconds stop him is the more important question.
    glimmer cape + ww/sky or anyone with instant lockdown

    dont go alone and always try to go behind the retard that go alone, if storm is good that's what hes going try to kill. glimmer cape pretty much fuck him up make any kill 300% harder than the classic jump orchid 2-3 hit + remnant and he'll die to the orchid.

    also gank him mid, annoy him and kill his courier
    Last edited by EqualWin; 2015-09-14 at 06:10 PM.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  5. #20205
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    glimmer cape + ww/sky or anyone with instant lockdown

    dont go alone and always try to go behind the retard that go alone, if storm is good that's what hes going try to kill. glimmer cape pretty much fuck him up make any kill 300% harder than the classic jump orchid 2-3 hit + remnant and he'll die to the orchid.

    also gank him mid, annoy him and kill his courier

    Glimmer cape doesn't counter storm at all + its unlikely a pos 5 supp will have glimmer at 15 mins.

  6. #20206
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    Glimmer cape doesn't counter storm at all + its unlikely a pos 5 supp will have glimmer at 15 mins.
    Last time I got glimmer/shadow blade, the Storm Spirit bought Dust...I cried.

  7. #20207
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    Glimmer cape doesn't counter storm at all + its unlikely a pos 5 supp will have glimmer at 15 mins.
    doesn't it reduce the magic dmg by like 50%? it does help way too much vs him, solar crest help a lot too. yeah it wont stop him from killing you 1v1 if he has dust.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  8. #20208
    Quote Originally Posted by M1r4g3 View Post
    I don't think it was ever about storms win rate but rather that hes guaranteed to have a ok game no matter how shit hes doing, like hes still going to be useful.
    Thank you for actually reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    You judge my mid skills based on party AR unranked on US East with 200 ms? LOL. You think I took any of our games seriously or even played the way I normally play? What can you even see from my mid by watching me in party unranked with 200 ms? Do you see my mid mechanics? Nope. Do you see my farming patterns? Nope (I barely try to farm when playing unranked). Do you see me on my normal mid heores? Nope. It's like judging Arteezy's skills when he plays Pudge.
    Yeah, yeah, the classic "I don't even try" bullshit excuse. I use that one all the time, too. I play with 200 ping on EU servers just fine, you can check my dotabuff record and see that EU west is my highest winrate area. Also, if you were good at more than 3 heroes in the game you would excel in all random, as I do, because you wouldn't be handicapped by getting a hero you aren't good with like most people are. Having Sven instead of TA in mid shouldn't affect your mechanics, if you were actually a good player. Last hitting and lane control work the exact same for everybody.

    Tell me how I'm a FotM picker? Because I am the opposite of that.
    You're right, storm TA and qop aren't fotm heroes at all lmao

    I still remember the days when you thought you were near top MMR and that was the reason for your long queue times before ranked was implemented.
    Because I was? I was in page 1 games every single game I played which was the metric back then. I have dozens of games played with pros, and not only pros, but pro stacks (playing against LGD pubstomp stack best memories). I remember the one hour + queues well, I don't miss them. I calibrated the maximum possible MMR allowed even after losing 9 of my 10 games. The only reason I'm not 7k is because I haven't played enough to be, it's a grind and nothing else, that's why people always call it "the MMR grind." Though, having said that, I'll admit I'm probably a 5-6k shitcan by now, I simply don't care enough about the game anymore and I'm sure my mechanics have slipped to some degree, I do find myself making all sorts of mistakes when I know better, I just can't be enough of a tryhard to win sometimes. At some point you simply need to have high APM and focus and it's hard for me to even stay awake in some games.

    I won't pretend I'm the best player in the world anymore. That might have been true a year or two ago when I was unemployed and could devote my entire consciousness into being perfect at dota, but I'm a casualfag now and I'm sure it's affected my skill level. If only other people were objective enough about their own shortcomings to admit the same thing.

    Agree with her all you want. But explain to me how I have a 100% win rate against Storm as TA the last 2 months or so. Luck as Lysah attribute it to?
    Because it's a team game and you and Storm are both only 1 person out of 10. You pick one of the few heroes in the game that he can't feed off of, that already goes a long way to beating him. I still don't consider a hero balanced just because it has 1 or 2 heroes that do okay against it, just like Leshrac isn't balanced simply because Antimage exists. Not that I even believe such an outrageous claim in the first place, one of the few times I wish I had dotabuff+ for these "discussions."

    And Glimmer helps a lot against Storm, but it won't save people, no, he still does a ton of right click damage.
    @Equalwin
    You realize your argument is essentially "bring 2-3 heroes to the fight"
    That does not make for a balanced hero. This is what I'm talking about. By simply being in the game at all, Storm forces your support to follow your hard carry around the map 100% of the time and never leave his side. And even that isn't enough, depending on the lineup, sometimes it takes both supports. Storm can just go AFK jungle while you all hump each other's legs out of fear and he's already doing more than pretty much any other hero in the game.

    The combination of mobility and damage is what makes heroes broken. Take a look at all the most popular picks right now and what do they all have in common? QoP, Lesh, Lina, Ember, Storm, Cyka, AM, PL all very mobile heroes with a ton of damage.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 06:59 PM.

  9. #20209
    well what do you want? being able to go alone roaming for the map and storm nerfed so he can't kill you 1v1 anymore?

    sorry but that wont happen, hes a ganker after all and you need the supports to be near a carry if there aren't any tower left, or just have a tp.
    qop lesh lina am pl all can do the same as storm, run/blink at you and u'll probably die if theres no help.

    I dont see storm having more than 50% wr hes just meta now because sumail (pubs) in pro games hes average and do lose games.

    I remember few weeks ago u also were complaning about sf needing a nerf iirc, where is he at now?

    how to beat storm? its not that hard, dont be dumb enough to go alone letting him farm bloodstone charges, push as 5 (aka sf mek, ez lane ez game)

    I think you only play vs storm that snowball and have 30 bloodstone charges aka infinite mana and ur team has no lockdown.

    - - - Updated - - -

    also just saw ur dotabuff, you've 4k unranked games and 150 ranked? wot

    also those games where u said u lost 8 times in a row to storm, you've literally no lockdown in those games, what you expect
    Last edited by EqualWin; 2015-09-14 at 08:15 PM.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  10. #20210
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Yeah, yeah, the classic "I don't even try" bullshit excuse. I use that one all the time, too. I play with 200 ping on EU servers just fine, you can check my dotabuff record and see that EU west is my highest winrate area. Also, if you were good at more than 3 heroes in the game you would excel in all random, as I do, because you wouldn't be handicapped by getting a hero you aren't good with like most people are. Having Sven instead of TA in mid shouldn't affect your mechanics, if you were actually a good player. Last hitting and lane control work the exact same for everybody.
    Excuse? I used the same reasoning 2 years ago when I said AR didn't mean anything. I also used the same reasoning 4 pages ago when I said I didn't judge Hermanni's skills based on what he did when he played with me. I'm not good at heroes I don't play? Sure. I agree with that. Do I play more than 3 heroes? Yes. Mid Sven same as TA when it comes to mechanics? LOL. Yeah, you clearly don't understand mid. It's just a coincidence that about any high MMR player have lower party MMR than solo MMR. They try equally as hard, I bet.


    You're right, storm TA and qop aren't fotm heroes at all lmao
    ?
    I play mid, therefore I play mid herores. Again, sorry if that makes me play OP heroes. I don't play Leshrac or Lina (which are abused the most by high MMR players). I didn't play Sniper last patch. I didn't play TB/Ember when they were new and OP. I stopped playing Tinker whe he became FotM. I didn't play TA when she was just released and every one was playing her. I've been playing Storm since Dota 2 release and wrote a guide for Storm for playdota.com which was top 3 rated at its release and granted me a super early Dota 2 beta key but I didn't know about the beta key because I wasn't playing Dota at that time. I have played QoP since Dota 2 release too. It's like saying all Warlock players in WoW were FotM players.

    Because I was? I was in page 1 games every single game I played which was the metric back then. I have dozens of games played with pros, and not only pros, but pro stacks (playing against LGD pubstomp stack best memories). I remember the one hour + queues well, I don't miss them. I calibrated the maximum possible MMR allowed even after losing 9 of my 10 games. The only reason I'm not 7k is because I haven't played enough to be, it's a grind and nothing else, that's why people always call it "the MMR grind." Though, having said that, I'll admit I'm probably a 5-6k shitcan by now, I simply don't care enough about the game anymore and I'm sure my mechanics have slipped to some degree, I do find myself making all sorts of mistakes when I know better, I just can't be enough of a tryhard to win sometimes. At some point you simply need to have high APM and focus and it's hard for me to even stay awake in some games.
    What MMR did you calibrate at to say it was the highest possible? Keep lying or be delusional.

    Because it's a team game and you and Storm are both only 1 person out of 10. You pick one of the few heroes in the game that he can't feed off of, that already goes a long way to beating him. I still don't consider a hero balanced just because it has 1 or 2 heroes that do okay against it, just like Leshrac isn't balanced simply because Antimage exists. Not that I even believe such an outrageous claim in the first place, one of the few times I wish I had dotabuff+ for these "discussions."
    Yes, Storm can't do anyting against me and I can't do anything against Storm yet 100% win rate for me. Must be luck.

  11. #20211
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Agree with her all you want. But explain to me how I have a 100% win rate against Storm as TA the last 2 months or so. Luck as Lysah attribute it to?
    Quite honestly, if you're ever at 100% winrate the answer is "yes, you're lucky". I think that goes for literally every matchup.

  12. #20212
    Deleted
    I win 100% of my mids vs sf as pudge - yet people say sf is super good vs pudge.

    One persons experience with a matchup is not proof really.

  13. #20213
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    Quite honestly, if you're ever at 100% winrate the answer is "yes, you're lucky". I think that goes for literally every matchup.
    It does? So if a guy goes 30-0 in ranked it's luck? Ok.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    I win 100% of my mids vs sf as pudge - yet people say sf is super good vs pudge.

    One persons experience with a matchup is not proof really.
    You win 100% of your mids vs SF as Pudge. That means at your MMR, Pudge is good against SF (if you actually got 100% winrate against SF, which I doubt but feel free to link Dotabuff). So, proof enough for me. Now do it at 6k MMR and I will agree that Pudge is good against SF there too.

  14. #20214
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    It does? So if a guy goes 30-0 in ranked it's luck? Ok.
    ...Yes?

    What the fuck are you on Ariadne. You're not even pretending to base this off of any logic. If you're ever running around with 30 kills and no deaths the game has just gone so flat out wrong somewhere that this isn't even worth mentioning as a sample.

  15. #20215
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    It does? So if a guy goes 30-0 in ranked it's luck? Ok.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You win 100% of your mids vs SF as Pudge. That means at your MMR, Pudge is good against SF (if you actually got 100% winrate against SF, which I doubt but feel free to link Dotabuff). So, proof enough for me. Now do it at 6k MMR and I will agree that Pudge is good against SF there too.

    100% beating him mid and 100% win rate against him are not the same, rarely can you win a game as pudge.

  16. #20216
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    ...Yes?

    What the fuck are you on Ariadne. You're not even pretending to base this off of any logic. If you're ever running around with 30 kills and no deaths the game has just gone so flat out wrong somewhere that this isn't even worth mentioning as a sample.
    doesn't he mean 30 games 0 loses? it isn't luck
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  17. #20217
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    100% beating him mid and 100% win rate against him are not the same, rarely can you win a game as pudge.
    What do you mean by winnig? Killing him? Sure, if you win mid in 100% of your games then I agree that Pudge is strong against SF on lane in your MMR bracket. The same way I agree Rikimaru is stronger at 2k MMR. I certainly wouldn't attribute it to luck. But that's just me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    ...Yes?

    What the fuck are you on Ariadne. You're not even pretending to base this off of any logic. If you're ever running around with 30 kills and no deaths the game has just gone so flat out wrong somewhere that this isn't even worth mentioning as a sample.
    30 wins 0 losses. And even in your case I wouldnt' consider it luck. If a guy went 30-0 in a game I'd say he outplayed/outpicked the opponent and not attribute it to luck.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2015-09-14 at 08:43 PM.

  18. #20218
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    What do you mean by winnig? Killing him? Sure, if you do that in 100% of your games then I agree that Pudge is strong against SF on lane in your MMR bracket. The same way I agree Rikimaru is stronger at 2k MMR.

    - - - Updated - - -



    30 wins 0 losses. And even in your case I wouldnt' consider it luck. If a guy went 30-0 in a game I'd say he outplayed/outpicked the opponent and not attribute it to luck.
    I'd say when im mid vs sf i almost always kill him atleast 3 times and am able to farm up a blink at 10 mins, i'd consider that heavily beating him mid.

  19. #20219
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    30 wins 0 losses. And even in your case I wouldnt' consider it luck.
    And that's cute. But this is laughable. 30 wins, 0 losses. Are you serious? I don't think you're serious in thinking that's an argument. That's just flat out too many wins to not be a glaring anomaly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    If a guy went 30-0 in a game I'd say he outplayed/outpicked the opponent and not attribute it to luck.
    I just call it 'luck' as an umbrella term for most of these. If your team outpicks the enemy team that's a starting advantage, but is ultimately luck of the draw between your team and theirs' cohesion. If you're outplaying the enemy laner(s) that's a huge advantage, but is again luck of the draw.

    And if you're going to pretend 30-0 isn't a glaringly obvious anomaly then we're done here.

  20. #20220
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    well what do you want? being able to go alone roaming for the map and storm nerfed so he can't kill you 1v1 anymore?
    I want Storm to actually have to make decisions and take risks to get kills. Right now, there is zero risk in playing that hero. You fuck up and way overextend? No problem, just zipzap out. You have even 1 health left when you enter ult you're home free. My proposed change to Storm > can now take damage/be auto attacked while in ball lightning. Problem solved. He would still have insane mobility and damage, but he wouldn't be able to zip circles around a team of 5 and take literally 0 damage during.

    I play mid, therefore I play mid herores. Again, sorry if that makes me play OP heroes. I don't play Leshrac or Lina (which are abused the most by high MMR players). I didn't play Sniper last patch. I didn't play TB/Ember when they were new and OP. I stopped playing Tinker whe he became FotM. I didn't play TA when she was just released and every one was playing her. I've been playing Storm since Dota 2 release and wrote a guide for Storm for playdota.com which was top 3 rated at its release and granted me a super early Dota 2 beta key but I didn't know about the beta key because I wasn't playing Dota at that time. I have played QoP since Dota 2 release too. It's like saying all Warlock players in WoW were FotM players.
    So you agree you play FotM heroes? Thank you.

    What MMR did you calibrate at to say it was the highest possible? Keep lying or be delusional.
    4800, look it up, it's not possible to calibrate higher than 4800-4900 or so, try all you want. They put this cap in place to prevent account sellers or something.

    It's just a coincidence that about any high MMR player have lower party MMR than solo MMR. They try equally as hard, I bet.
    Occam's Razor. Party matchmaking is more difficult than solo queue. To take this example to the extreme, you will not stomp games as TA if you were in a 5v5 setting, just like RTZ got eliminated from TI5 after two rounds. When the enemy team is organized and has a brain, it's not so easy to be a pubstar, is it? It's only natural that the skill level of pubstars goes way down as more and more players are added to the team and there are fewer and fewer idiots to feed off of.

    It's been said before and I'll say it again for you - MMR means nothing other than your ability to win games. It doesn't prove you're good at this game. The pros know this, and people know this all the way down to shitcan level. For you, that means picking some of the easiest mid laners in the game to guarantee you get your farm and then picking on the worst players in the game to snowball. I'm glad that works for you, any monkey can do that, though, it's not going to impress me.

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1794211297
    This is why TA is a shit hero. (I actually consider her somewhere between top and second tier simply because of how safe of a pick she is for mid, but Jesus Christ is she irrelevant if she is not grossly ahead of everyone else). Point being, if you went 30-0 against Storm, I won't say it's "luck" per se, but there are a lot of factors at play here. TA simply cannot win an even game against other carrys, which means you got ahead and snowballed hard and nobody on Storm's team in any game won his lane and kept up with you. I also think it would be great if I had allies that didn't lose their lanes every single game and feed, but alas, I'm not that lucky.

    Really, DotA is still a team game, trying to base any argument or logic off your own personal play is, well, laughable at best.




    Oh, and I never had a problem with SF's strength, that was never what I complained about. I had a problem with SF being stupidly easy to play. He's another hero you literally can't stop from farming. You pick a hero like QoP and harass the hell out of him and keep him at 0 cs for the first several minutes? Too bad, he hit level 5 and now he can two shot the whole creep wave for 150 mana. He can clear jungle just as easily, he's going to have 600 gpm no matter what you do. On top of that he hits extremely hard and has a great ultimate, making him a pain in the ass to play against pretty much any game. I said all during ti5 that he was a shit pick in this meta and teams that picked him deserve to lose. Doesn't mean he didn't end up the most farmed hero in every single game he lost.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 08:53 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •