1. #20761
    Scarab Lord Crackleslap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    4,091
    Carry Venge fucks sniper a new anus.

  2. #20762
    Quote Originally Posted by Bapestar View Post
    Lol your opponents can be good and Techies can still shine, get over it. If your saying is even a tiny bit true, than many heroes are trash, because good players can counter them. Seems to me that Techies is so hated because people feel like he shouldn't exist in Dota.
    But unlike a good specific hero counter to a specific problem, say Lion's instant CC to deal with Storm Spirit, Techies is countered by simply taking an alternate route. An option that is availible to absolutely everyone. You cannot mine every choke point and every blind spot on the map, and there will always be a way to destroy your minefields before they detonate if you take some care. Techies simply cannot get involved in combat and expect to achieve as much as another hero would, leaving his team down a Hero in fights. Sometimes literally down a Hero if they go and Suicide into someone like Centaur or Tide who are just going to shrug it off.

    You don't need to draft special around them, you don't need to buy expensive items like MKB's to deal with them, you don't have to worry about them warping the game the way heroes like Tinker can. All you have to do is watch where you're walking. Thats it. After you've played against him long enough you know where all the common mine spots are too, so avoiding them almost becomes an invoulentary responce.

    You like Techies, we get it. Thats cool, you have fun playing them. But if you can't provide any arguements for them being a good hero on their own merits, you're not going to convince anyone else that they are as good as you think they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    This is your daily PSA that Veil of Discord is now an obscenely broken item that should basically be gotten on every int hero. It's like a Drums for int heroes that also gives armour and regen now except the active is 10000x better.
    Its been a great item since 6.85 when it had its cost reduced. It's got all the stats you'd want for an Int hero and has a great build path now. You can even build most of it at the side shop too as a bonus. Armour items for Int Heroes are quite hard to come by early game if you're not building a Mek. I'd even buy it along with a Mek, its just that good right now.
    What makes it even more absurd is that its potentially useful to the rest of your team too. I've been getting a lot of Earthshakers, Invokers and Zeus' in my games recently and all of these guys just love this item's active. I'm sure its going to get nerfed in the near future, especially if the pro's start picking it up.

  3. #20763
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Riki however is every bit as shit as I thought. Anything that hero was once good at has been taken away and he's left with absolutely nothing now. I am well and truly pissed at how irresponsible and incompetent Valve's development process is. 6.85 was a very well balanced patch with only a handful of outliers, and instead of patching to address those outliers, they throw the entire thing out because... why?
    I don't know, being able to level backstab and invis at the same time and having blink strike pre-6 is huge, it's everything his old kit was with a free new ultimate that makes him immune and invis at level 1 instead of 6. Seems to me like he is much better than last patch, but I haven't tried him yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bapestar View Post
    Before he was added you were so adamant on saying he won't be added until he was reworked. Most of that looks like mostly small tweaks/nerfs. I wouldn't call it a rework. These tweaks didn't "destroy" techies. When it comes to techies and arc warden I will agree that compared to other heroes they are on the low end in their ability to assist the team. But they are certainly not unplayable or trash.
    I would consider the fundamental changes to how the hero is played big enough to be considered a rework. They definitely put more thought into this hero than any of the others they've ported. I will admit, though, that I half expected them to just never add him at all, but I think the bitching on reddit won through in the end. Too many people jokingly begged for techies and now nobody plays it, as expected. It'll be the same with pit lord, people keep begging for this hero but his current design is trash tier, if they don't rework him (or massively buff) before they port him he will be even worse than techies.

    To be honest, considering he was released instantly with an arcana with added TI hype, I think Valve really just used techies as a quick cash grab, and it seems to have worked marvelously. So many unused techies arcanas in the world now.

  4. #20764
    Holy crap doom is nerfed to shit, seriously you cant devour anything in the jungle anymore without replacing your aura cause all creeps have that magic rest crap ability, aswell as his E doesn't remove linkens. Hero literaly worse than techies

  5. #20765
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by M1r4g3 View Post
    Holy crap doom is nerfed to shit, seriously you cant devour anything in the jungle anymore without replacing your aura cause all creeps have that magic rest crap ability, aswell as his E doesn't remove linkens. Hero literaly worse than techies
    Are you on drugs? The hero is obscene now that there's a hard camp by the offlane so long as he has at least one hero on his team that can break Linken's for him.

    Hell, if you absolutely need to, you can just get an Atos.

  6. #20766
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    Are you on drugs? The hero is obscene now that there's a hard camp by the offlane so long as he has at least one hero on his team that can break Linken's for him.

    Hell, if you absolutely need to, you can just get an Atos.
    Did doom ever have a problem devouring creeps in the enemy jungle before tho? The large camp in the dire jungle nearest to the radiant T1 tower had the same purpose.

  7. #20767
    Eul's would be great on Doom too, infinite mana and insane movespeed and can be used defensively if needs be, force staff too. Funny how many ways there are to break linkens that are far cheaper than the item itself and provide other benefits as well.

    Movespeed has gotten out of hand, but nerfing all the common boots only nerfs supports more. The initial boost to base movespeed of boots of speed was to help supports out who would sit on brown boots for a long time, and now they revert this change in the end anyway. Maybe it's time to start considering having boots upgrades actually decrease the movespeed, so that brown boots are the best choice for flat out speed, while the various upgrades provide other benefits?

  8. #20768
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Movespeed has gotten out of hand, but nerfing all the common boots only nerfs supports more. The initial boost to base movespeed of boots of speed was to help supports out who would sit on brown boots for a long time, and now they revert this change in the end anyway. Maybe it's time to start considering having boots upgrades actually decrease the movespeed, so that brown boots are the best choice for flat out speed, while the various upgrades provide other benefits?
    Movespeed is perhaps the one stat thats always useful regardless of the situation. Theres never a time you don't want more, provided it doesn't come at the cost of other stats. If it comes bundled with a nice Int and Mana regen boost along with a useful active you get the kind of item thats picked up extremely regularly by just about anyone who can make use of it.

    Nerfs to boots affect different supports in different ways. CM is outpaced by passsing snails, while Lich is Usain Bolt by comparison. While they're both going to get the same upgraded pair of boots in the end, Lich can postpone them in favour of other items, if CM does it she'll move around the map at a crawl for most of the game. The problem is that any universal buff to support move speeds to bring them on par with just brown boots is going to lead to them outrunning everyone with upgraded boots without other changes being made. Having upgraded boots reduce your movespeed is an idea with some merit to it, but it does run the risk of people just skipping the upgrade all together

    The underlying reason its an issue is that supports are usually dirt poor and funnel whatever gold they do get into Wards and other vision first and foremost. Maybe its time to consider putting more gold in the hands of hardworking supports? Not enough for them to dive into like Scrouge McDuck, but enough for them to have more than just brown boots and a magic stick at 20 mins. Naturally people will complain about Dota having nice things, but being a solo support when your team is losing, and not even having enough gold to buy a TP, is a miserable experience. So help you if you need Sentries or Dust, you're probably not ever going to complete as much as a single Bracer.
    There's lots of interesting ways they could reward good support play too. We already get a small bounty for killing enemy wards, which is a good start. Adding a little gold here and there for supporting your team could go a long way.

    A much less elegant solution would be to shove some extra move speed on an item that a support would be interested in, with the assumption that its so good you'd get it every game. Not Euls, which has other utility, but something like Drums maybe, that gives less stats but has enough move speed to make up the difference along with a useful active. I would have said something like this would have been the most likely choice, but given how much things are being shook up each patch, you never really know anymore.

  9. #20769
    Most supports are the slowest heroes in the game, is it really an issue if they end up moving about the same speed as the heroes that two shot them? I'm not so sure. The only danger I see is every hero in the game just sticking with brown boots unless they want BoT.

  10. #20770
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Most supports are the slowest heroes in the game, is it really an issue if they end up moving about the same speed as the heroes that two shot them? I'm not so sure. The only danger I see is every hero in the game just sticking with brown boots unless they want BoT.
    Giving Supports more movement speed would make them OP early game, even if it would help balance things late game.

    Support/Intel heroes should be stronger early mid game. Carries should be most powerful late game. its a fair trade off.

  11. #20771
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    So help you if you need Sentries or Dust, you're probably not ever going to complete as much as a single Bracer.
    True, i really hate playing solo support if there is even one invis hero on the enemy team, you just throw any spare gold on Sentries and dust.

    But you can't even ignore detection because those invis heroes will kill you first if you don't have any.

    But the largest issue is obviously in pubs here that most Core players outright refuse to buy dust / sentries despite knowing or just flat out ignoring that a support who doesn't even have brown shoes & no gold for a tp can't buy detection.

    But instead:
    >We need detection.
    >We need wards.
    >We need detection.
    >We need detection.
    >We need wards.

  12. #20772
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    True, i really hate playing solo support if there is even one invis hero on the enemy team, you just throw any spare gold on Sentries and dust.

    But you can't even ignore detection because those invis heroes will kill you first if you don't have any.

    But the largest issue is obviously in pubs here that most Core players outright refuse to buy dust / sentries despite knowing or just flat out ignoring that a support who doesn't even have brown shoes & no gold for a tp can't buy detection.

    But instead:
    >We need detection.
    >We need wards.
    >We need detection.
    >We need detection.
    >We need wards.
    And this is pretty much why I rage every month or so and quit Dota 2 completely. Because playing team games on the internet can be so painful you wonder why you're even playing it in the first place.

    I actually like playing Support heroes. I don't like the underfarmed clinks spamming "we need wards". It is anti-fun

  13. #20773
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by M1r4g3 View Post
    Did doom ever have a problem devouring creeps in the enemy jungle before tho? The large camp in the dire jungle nearest to the radiant T1 tower had the same purpose.
    Doom wasn't really very pickable on Dire before Dire offlane got a camp unless you wanted to dual lane, never mind the fact that a strong trilane would just zone him so far out on Radiant that if he wanted to eat a creep he had to fuck off to his own jungle.

    Now even if you get completely zoned out with solo offlane Doom the enemy team has to devote a massive amount of resources to prevent you from having 5-6k net worth at 10 minutes because if all else fails you can just chokepoint jungle the hard camp while devouring on CD while you wait for the wave to push into your tower. LC, Doom, etc - any hero that can somewhat sustainably jungle while they wait for the creep equilibrium to push in their favour or supports to show on other parts of the map has been massively buffed with the addition of the hard camp to the Secret Shop.
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2015-12-23 at 10:42 PM.

  14. #20774
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    14,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I don't know, being able to level backstab and invis at the same time and having blink strike pre-6 is huge, it's everything his old kit was with a free new ultimate that makes him immune and invis at level 1 instead of 6. Seems to me like he is much better than last patch, but I haven't tried him yet.
    His ult is pretty weak and the loss of the HP regen coupled with the huge nerfs to base stats make him a LOT weaker IMO. Riki is designed to be a roaming/ganking hero that farms heroes instead of creeps, and the huge regen boost from invis previously facilitated that. Now he's lost a ton of base stats and that regen, meaning he's piss easy to bully out of lane and can't roam effectively without farm.

    I think he can become good, but he needs more help first. If anything his ult needs to scale with his stats somehow. Only getting 1 attack per second is actually a substantial downgrade past like 20-25 mins, especially given his high AGI growth. His ult hits every viable target in the AOE each second to the maximum number of hits per unit, which isn't obvious from spell description. It makes it a potentially strong ability but it's so easy to just walk out of it.

    Thrall+Riki was already a powerhouse combo, now you practically must pick Thrall with Riki if you want to use the ult effectively.

    Oh, and the ult is activated on Riki himself, not targeted. So you basically have to either buy blink dagger or use blinkstrike to get into position to use it.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  15. #20775
    Yeah I agree the loss of regen is huge for Riki. He has a tiny HP pool and you don't want to get more Str on the hero.

    It let him be an annoying lil piece of shit harassing and getting last hits. Which is important for any "carry" yes yes hes not a carry hero, but you need fucking items on him and he sure as shit isnt a support.

  16. #20776
    Deleted
    The Riki ulti just isn't very good. I literally won a game against a Riki earlier today because he decided to ulti instead of just hitting me while I was stuck in his fart cloud. Got him killed because it allowed me to just walk out of it, invoke Deafening Blast, and gib him instead of dying. It's just not a good ulti atm unless you go full retard 3x Rapier and catch people in Black Hole/Kinetic Field or some shit.

    Like legit if my life depended on winning a Riki game right now I'd ignore skilling ulti completely, I think.

  17. #20777
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    14,822
    Just in case anyone wasn't sure, Slark is still utterly gamebreaking. I don't understand why that hero isn't in every single pro game. He's balanced as if he can't buy items, so once he has items, he's completely broken.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    The Riki ulti just isn't very good. I literally won a game against a Riki earlier today because he decided to ulti instead of just hitting me while I was stuck in his fart cloud. Got him killed because it allowed me to just walk out of it, invoke Deafening Blast, and gib him instead of dying. It's just not a good ulti atm unless you go full retard 3x Rapier and catch people in Black Hole/Kinetic Field or some shit.

    Like legit if my life depended on winning a Riki game right now I'd ignore skilling ulti completely, I think.
    It's worth a value point for dodging abilities and getting free hits on people when blink is on cooldown. There's virtually no reason to get more than 1 point though, you get almost nothing out of it since people will just walk out of it way before you get those extra hits in (one hit per second? really? volvo pls...)

    I wouldn't get it at 6, either, unless you need to dodge something immediately.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  18. #20778
    Scarab Lord Crackleslap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    4,091
    I don't know how to build riki anymore. I played a game with him with his previous build. Treads, diffusal etc... and it just does no damage at all. I felt utterly useless the entire game. Maybe next game I'll try an ember riki but if you get caught you are 100% dead.

  19. #20779
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    14,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackleslap View Post
    I don't know how to build riki anymore. I played a game with him with his previous build. Treads, diffusal etc... and it just does no damage at all. I felt utterly useless the entire game. Maybe next game I'll try an ember riki but if you get caught you are 100% dead.
    Backstab modifier reduced by 25% and blink is no longer on a charge system so you can't spam it on people for the extra burst. Riki is probably the weakest hero in the game right now, honestly.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  20. #20780
    I think Riki's new ult is amazing, it lets him do the 1 thing he could never do before:
    Actually contribute to team fights.

    He doesn't need it to get kills early game, let's not forget, he used to do just fine with permanent invis as his ult, something that got baked into his backstab for free.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-12-24 at 04:20 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •