1. #21001
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    He's literally always been capable of this.

    You know what counters Invoker? Buying a BKB counters Invoker. Not having completely retarded positioning counters Invoker.

    The hero is honestly perfectly fine now that Alacrity was nerfed.

    Edit: Jesus fuck Merlini breaking out the SAVAGERY on stream. Ritsu got roasted like a Thanksgiving turkey.

    Edit 2: Game 2, pick Dark Seer, Chen and Bane, don't ban Oracle. CoL don't pick it. NA DotA is fucking AWFUL, boys. Literally fucking trash-tier drafting everywhere. It's actually sad.

    Edit 3: CoL's Drow has now bought a Diffusal Blade and has slot issues. If only there were some hero CoL could have picked that countered over half of the enemy team and obviated the need for a Diffusal Blade! If only that hero were also an excellent hero in a dual lane with another ranged hero!
    No, tornado EMP is still hideously overpowered. Relatively short cooldown, damned near free to cast, and a competent Invoker will rarely if ever miss the tornado. And if the tornado hits, so will the EMP.

    BKB is also a 4000 gold item, not an inherent ability. They seriously should just delete BKB from the game and give everyone a passive PvP trinket ability or some stupid shit. Balancing the entire game around one fucking item has to be one of the laziest and most shortsighted design decisions possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
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  2. #21002
    No change done to invoker added or removed his ability to produce what happened in the gif. Everyone was hit by a frontal Defining blast. Beside nerfs to Al and Cold snap, all the buffs were quality of life/early game stuff, but the aoe def blast. Invoker is fine were he is.

  3. #21003
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    NA DotA is fucking AWFUL, boys.
    I don't see why a couple of tier 4 teams being bad at the game says anything about NA DotA. If you want to make a comment about how there is only one team in NA, that's another conversation, but pretending like coL or shitsu stack represent the whole scene is an insult to everyone.

    As for Invoker, he is definitely not fine in my opinion. His spells aren't what make him ridiculous, 200 right click damage at level 7 is. Int and growth buffs, base damage buffs, exort buffs, it's all slowly become too much over time.


    Navi vs Empire showing how strong Tusk still is - can this hero suffer a real nerf already please? Protect your carry from all enemy focus no matter what and then take a massive dump on enemy carry with BKB piercing stun and slow, not to mention sigil and automatic path blocking ice shards 10/10 osfrog etc etc
    Last edited by Lysah; 2016-01-08 at 03:47 PM.

  4. #21004
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I don't see why a couple of tier 4 teams being bad at the game says anything about NA DotA. If you want to make a comment about how there is only one team in NA, that's another conversation, but pretending like coL or shitsu stack represent the whole scene is an insult to everyone.

    As for Invoker, he is definitely not fine in my opinion. His spells aren't what make him ridiculous, 200 right click damage at level 7 is. Int and growth buffs, base damage buffs, exort buffs, it's all slowly become too much over time.


    Navi vs Empire showing how strong Tusk still is - can this hero suffer a real nerf already please? Protect your carry from all enemy focus no matter what and then take a massive dump on enemy carry with BKB piercing stun and slow, not to mention sigil and automatic path blocking ice shards 10/10 osfrog etc etc
    I'm not sure how you can say with a straight face that Shitsustack and CoL are "tier 4 teams" when at the very least CoL is a strong outsider in the regional qualifier.

    NA DotA genuinely only has EG at the minute, who granted, are my favourite team and one of the teams I respect for consistently drafting and executing well. Outside of EG, what's left that isn't awful? Digital Clownshoes? The peruvian teams that just draft Abba Dazzle and run down lanes? Come now.

    Agreed about Tusk, though. I begged for that hero to get nerfed into the fucking ground, and instead he got hit with the equivalent of a 100 dollar fine for drunken vehicular manslaughter.

    Edit: I spoke to soon about DC. At least they can draft. Yawar and TC are depressingly mediocre at what they do, but at least their drafting isn't rancid.
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2016-01-08 at 06:42 PM.

  5. #21005
    Aren't we agreeing that EG is the only team in NA dota? I think so. Everyone else is mushroom.

    And yeah, the nerfs he's received are just so like....okay? Nice job, nothing about his kit that makes him strong was affected in any way really. His free immunity for allies is slightly shorter, oh no. Navi played pretty well today and Dendi is absolutely one of the best players in the world still, in my opinion, but one tusk pick just single handedly shuts down all 5 of their heroes and it's just stupid he's such an easy counterpick to basically any strat that uses damage to kill heroes. I think it's pretty impossible for a tusk pick to ever be a bad decision. Showing that naix still needs a rework or something to be a good hero as well, one tusk ult during rage and he's out of the fight, it might as well just instakill him from full health because after he gets stunned and slowed through his rage and kited he's just a big creep.

  6. #21006
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Aren't we agreeing that EG is the only team in NA dota? I think so. Everyone else is mushroom.

    And yeah, the nerfs he's received are just so like....okay? Nice job, nothing about his kit that makes him strong was affected in any way really. His free immunity for allies is slightly shorter, oh no. Navi played pretty well today and Dendi is absolutely one of the best players in the world still, in my opinion, but one tusk pick just single handedly shuts down all 5 of their heroes and it's just stupid he's such an easy counterpick to basically any strat that uses damage to kill heroes. I think it's pretty impossible for a tusk pick to ever be a bad decision. Showing that naix still needs a rework or something to be a good hero as well, one tusk ult during rage and he's out of the fight, it might as well just instakill him from full health because after he gets stunned and slowed through his rage and kited he's just a big creep.
    IMHO the only way to fix Tusk without reverting Ice Shards and Snowball to their old functionality is to not make Ice Shards block BKB'd targets, and have Walrus Punch only pierce BKB with an Aghanim's Scepter.

    It'd incentivize Aghanim's pickups on a hero that otherwise doesn't really buy it (even if it's much less of a joke than people make it out to be - it's CRAZY against melee cores even if it doesn't do any damage) and make Ice Shards less cancer. Ice Shards might just single-handedly be the most broken ability in DotA atm.

    Edit: My boy 1437 first-picking Oracle in every game. Somebody has the meta figured out.
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2016-01-08 at 07:14 PM.

  7. #21007
    Why is it that as higher up you go in mmr that people have more mental issues? Is it a requirement to reach 5k the ability to have emo breakdowns whenever someone says something you don't like?
    I don't even wanna know what the 6/7/8k requirements are then :O

  8. #21008
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by M1r4g3 View Post
    Why is it that as higher up you go in mmr that people have more mental issues? Is it a requirement to reach 5k the ability to have emo breakdowns whenever someone says something you don't like?
    I don't even wanna know what the 6/7/8k requirements are then :O
    Nah, 4-6k is the bracket with the most drama queens, in my experience. Sub-4k, most players aren't deluded enough to think they're the next Miracle. Above 6k, everyone is painfully aware of just how shit they are even if they're in the 99th percentile of all DotA players.

    Essentially 4-6k is just the Goldilocks Zone for self-important drama queen behaviour. It's like raiding in WoW - everyone in the top 50 knows they always have something to improve on and that success is fleeting, and between 50 and 150 world is where you'll find the most self-important elitist dweebs, in my experience.

    Edit: Also I'm sure Yawar is actually amazing. He manages to feed on every hero in every matchup. Scientist baffler extraordinaire 4Head
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2016-01-08 at 07:22 PM.

  9. #21009
    My experience as well. 5k range (4800-5200 or so every game) everyone is just spamming "4K SHITTERS" at each other all game as if being 40 mmr ahead of someone else makes you god tier just because your MMR starts with a 5 and theirs doesn't. Of course, this then devolves with them saying that said 5k player isn't REALLY 5k because they're only a couple of losses away from being 4k again. Meanwhile enemy took rosh and is coming for rax. I think it's a problem where your MMR is just close enough to getting recognized as being a great player, and everyone naturally thinks they are great players, so every time anyone makes a single mistake everyone immediately thinks "GREAT shitty teammates keeping me from my true MMR as usual." The hilarious thing about getting MMR post 4k is that how good you play doesn't matter anymore, gaining MMR is as simple as keeping your team from tilting 5 minutes in. If you can do that, the enemy team will inevitably tilt and you will win regardless of picks and plays.

    Low MMR players don't seem to care as much, probably because way fewer of them are in the "must grind MMR" mentality. High MMR players also don't seem to care, probably because they're already on the leaderboards so there's not really anywhere else to go. It's that middle range where everyone is playing for MMR, not because they want to have fun playing competitive games, so everyone is one bad word away from a little kid tantrum at all times.

  10. #21010
    Deleted
    The real issue with DotA, and the reason you get these idiotic drama queens in what's supposedly a very skilled bracket, is that you can be very mechanically proficient at the game and still be an absolutely fucking awful DotA player. I can't tell you how many times I've lost games with a carry on my team that was entirely capable of 10+ CS a minute and was 5-6k ahead of the opposing carry in terms of net worth, but made completely retarded itemization decisions, died without buyback, etc.

    I've actually almost lost a game as an absurdly fed Bristleback vs a Radiance Butterfly Alch and a Phoenix because my mongoloid SF player decided he would rather have a Desolator and a Butterfly than Satanic and MKB, and kept saying "I need BKB" while not buying BKB. It takes every ounce of self-control I have to not abandon games like that.

    You can literally get to 5k+ with mediocre mechanics if you can just stop yourself from doing retarded shit. Good map sense, good sense of objectives, and good itemization will make a 5k player even if you ulti creeps once in a while, but even if you have Miracle-level mechanics you're not getting to 6k if you buy retarded items and make idiotic decisions, which is honestly the bane of most 4-5k players.

    Edit: Also people are completely incapable of taking warranted criticism in DotA games. If you tell your idiot Slardar Lina duo queue that they're throwing the game by running around chasing kills on solo heroes instead of 5-manning with their super farmed Viper and 12-minute Mek Undying, they'll just tilt and actively do the exact opposite of what would win them the game. It's actually like trying to cajole a bunch of tantrum-throwing toddlers into doing what you want them to.
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2016-01-08 at 07:37 PM.

  11. #21011
    Yeah, I started watching some casual pro solo queue now that I have two monitors, and it amazes me to watch the mid 6k+ bracket. People actually listen for the most part, it's incredible. EE will yell at someone to go push a lane and 9/10 times they immediately go do it, or when he says to back off they usually do. If you say "hey go push top so we can rosh safely" in 4-5k people will just go jungle and ignore you or tell you to fuck off and start feeding couriers. It gets really hard to want to play DotA ranked at this level when every single player is dead set on being as uncooperative as possible.

    I believe I said just 20 pages ago or something that there isn't a huge mechanical difference between 4k and 5k and 6k players. Once you can last hit and aim your spells you're pretty much at the top of the game already, aside from a few sick moves that take skills, but only a couple of heroes are really capable of impressive feats. The biggest difference between trench edgelords and pro players is decision making and that's all it takes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And terrorblade picked lmao
    Last edited by Lysah; 2016-01-08 at 08:20 PM.

  12. #21012
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Yeah, I started watching some casual pro solo queue now that I have two monitors, and it amazes me to watch the mid 6k+ bracket. People actually listen for the most part, it's incredible. EE will yell at someone to go push a lane and 9/10 times they immediately go do it, or when he says to back off they usually do. If you say "hey go push top so we can rosh safely" in 4-5k people will just go jungle and ignore you or tell you to fuck off and start feeding couriers. It gets really hard to want to play DotA ranked at this level when every single player is dead set on being as uncooperative as possible.

    I believe I said just 20 pages ago or something that there isn't a huge mechanical difference between 4k and 5k and 6k players. Once you can last hit and aim your spells you're pretty much at the top of the game already, aside from a few sick moves that take skills, but only a couple of heroes are really capable of impressive feats. The biggest difference between trench edgelords and pro players is decision making and that's all it takes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And terrorblade picked lmao
    I mean even pros sometimes just make laughably awful itemization decisions. Take the Liquid vs Elements game earlier today where Matumbaman brought a HoT against a Zeus.

    Yeah, I'll just repeat that for impact. A HoT against a Zeus and an AA.

    The commentators naturally all lauded his decision to "tank up" without giving any sort of regard to the fact that he could literally have bought a fucking Glimmer Cape instead and it would have given him more EHP against Zeus because Zeus passive doesn't fucking care how much health you have.

    I think the basic lesson here is that everyone is trash at DotA and you have to just embrace that DotA isn't a game of "who is best", it's a game of "who's going to be least retarded this time?"

  13. #21013
    Homing missile + sunstrike lmao x)

  14. #21014
    I don't understand criticizing a team for not defending rax. This coL vs POF game, POF just let coL take rax for free with no resistance, and the casters are all "NA dota elegiggle" nice memes guys, but if they tried to defend and got team wiped AND lost rax it would have been a second lane, maybe a third, probably game over either way. If you have a better late game team, there is an obvious advantage to not just feeding because "MUST SAVE RAX HURR" if you know you can't win the fight.

  15. #21015
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I don't understand criticizing a team for not defending rax. This coL vs POF game, POF just let coL take rax for free with no resistance, and the casters are all "NA dota elegiggle" nice memes guys, but if they tried to defend and got team wiped AND lost rax it would have been a second lane, maybe a third, probably game over either way. If you have a better late game team, there is an obvious advantage to not just feeding because "MUST SAVE RAX HURR" if you know you can't win the fight.
    Well most casters are 3-4k which is in the ''DEFEND RAX/T1 TOWER AT ALL COST'' range so its only natural that they would think that

  16. #21016
    Found this vid pretty nice.

  17. #21017
    hahaha, I love those Storm clips, getting a rampage just by clicking R behind the enemy team and killing 3 or 4 of them instantly, balanced hero spirit rest in fucking pieces

  18. #21018
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    hahaha, I love those Storm clips, getting a rampage just by clicking R behind the enemy team and killing 3 or 4 of them instantly, balanced hero spirit rest in fucking pieces
    I, for one, would welcome a reversion of the Storm nerfs, with the caveat that I'd only welcome it if Ball Lightning no longer made you invulnerable.

    The way I see it, the aspect of the ulti that's fine and creates compelling gameplay is the part where if you're a skilled player, you can juke the actual cast animation so your opponent effectively stutter-casts forever trying to get the ability off. The part that's retarded is the part where you wait for Sven to cast his stun and then *zippity-zappity* shimmy your blue, crackling, overdimensioned ass 50 units over and take zero damage. That part is fucking retarded.

    That or honestly they could just revert the cast point nerf on Doom - that hero is fucking trash now and could use the buff.

    Edit: LMAO that Shazam comeback what a fucking clownshow what the FUCK were PoF doing?!? Classic Sneyshit carry play.
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2016-01-09 at 02:19 AM.

  19. #21019
    I agree, I'd be okay with Storm if his ult didn't make him literally immune. If it didn't disjoint and he could still take damage, he wouldn't be able to ult away at 10 hp from 5 heroes and laugh, and if a gauntlet was chasing him he'd have to eat it. He'd still be strong if they reverted the mana nerf, he'd be able to zip away, eat the stun at a safe place, and come back, so there would be room for a lot of skillful plays. But, realistically, with as much damage as he can put out, he should be forced to go BKB against a team with a lot of stuns. Right now, it doesn't matter how much CC you stack if none of it is instant. Luckily his ult costs so much mana now he can't do anything, and that's fine by me.

    Edit:
    Liquid is actually really good at dota guys. I'm really curious to see what happens when they face a real team.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2016-01-09 at 02:51 PM.

  20. #21020
    Scarab Lord Crackleslap's Avatar
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    I don't want to storm spirit make a return any fucking time soon.

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