[Megathread] DotA 2

[Sackman]

becuase we are all working or studing and we can only play at evening ?

So you choose to inconvenience others. Exactly my original point, and thus why it is difficult to enjoy the game. Why are we discussing this again seeing as clearly my idea is going to inconvenience you - inconviencing others?

[Hermanni]

Who are you to say what is a useful application of someone else's time? My time is my time, it is useful to me always, and having it subtracted because people were not prepared to play a game for it's full duration without interruption is aggrievating and not enjoyable. I do not enter a game with the assumption that "oh if something comes up I can just pause!". Do you go in with that expectation?

How have I not made a sensible or logical argument? I have stated my opinion and given my experience that supports why I have this opinion. How is this in any way non sensical or illogical? What I see is a lot of people grasping at straws because they dislike my opinion, dislike that I think the system could be better and suggested a possible way this could be achieved.

Yes, very nonsensical and illogical. I agree <.<

You make it sound like you have something extremely important to do and people pausing in dota make you unable to complete that task in time. So in the end I imagine you complain about pausing because you don't have the patience or the decency to respect the other people in the game because your 2 minutes are more important than the combined 4 hours of time of the rest of the other 9 persons who will might feel like the game was wasted because there wasn't a pause in a critical time. Not saying that is the case very often, but acting like your time is more valuable than everyone else's isn't very mannered. You're right, you have nothing to go on with except your uninteresting opinion, so why do you need to bring in shitty attempts of validation like opinions of your friends or skill or what you did in a one game once if you know how awful arguments they make? Like I said, if you play as bad as you post you must be bronze.

And I already sait it before but because you seem to have missed it, I never really need pauses myself, and even I'm not particularly fond of waiting I don't act like a fuckwad about it as long as people are polite about needing a pause.

So why do you queue for games if you know you're going to inconvenience people because you have from 5 to 120 minutes to finish a game but you can't stand a minutes wait when someone has to deal with something unexpected? Because saying that other people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy a (fair) game if they know there's a chance they might have to deal with something unprecedented is kind of the definition of elitism, which is what ironically you accused other people of.

[Deleted]

Hello. Riven is my favorite champion in LoL, Is there any similar champion in DOTA2? Like many mini-dashes and such.

[Sackman]

You make it sound like you have something extremely important to do and people pausing in dota make you unable to complete that task in time. So in the end I imagine you complain about pausing because you don't have the patience or the decency to respect the other people in the game because your 2 minutes are more important than the combined 4 hours of time of the rest of the other 9 persons who will might feel like the game was wasted because there wasn't a pause in a critical time. Not saying that is the case very often, but acting like your time is more valuable than everyone else's isn't very mannered. You're right, you have nothing to go on with except your uninteresting opinion, so why do you need to bring in shitty attempts of validation like opinions of your friends or skill or what you did in a one game once if you know how awful arguments they make? Like I said, if you play as bad as you post you must be bronze.

And I already sait it before but because you seem to have missed it, I never really need pauses myself, and even I'm not particularly fond of waiting I don't act like a fuckwad about it as long as people are polite about needing a pause.

My time IS more important than everyone else's - to me. As is everyone else's time to them, which is why I think it should require unanimous voting. Because it shouldn't be too someone else or someones else to decide someone else's time.

I didn't bring in skill... other people did. And I am not trying to make an argument, I am sharing my opinion. Who are you to counsel who can share an opinion on this forum?

Who said I act like a fuckwad? Mate, you make the mother of all assumptions, not me. I am done talking with you.

[Sarevokcz]

My time IS more important than everyone else's - to me. As is everyone else's time to them, which is why I think it should require unanimous voting. Because it shouldn't be too someone else or someones else to decide someone else's time.

And if some do and some dont? They take a vote. And majority wins. Thats how it works

Who said I act like a fuckwad? Mate, you make the mother of all assumptions, not me. I am done talking with you.

You act like fuckwad right here right now, on the last three pages. You are being a dick and cant even admit it.

[Deleted]

Hello. Riven is my favorite champion in LoL, Is there any similar champion in DOTA2? Like many mini-dashes and such.

Well Slark has low CD abilties can leap around like a frog and has crazy speed when nobody's looking at him that also regens his hp to full in seconds >.>

[Sackman]

Hello. Riven is my favorite champion in LoL, Is there any similar champion in DOTA2? Like many mini-dashes and such.

Not really mini dashes, but there are characters that blink, or teleport around the map.

Look into:

Slark
Anti-Mage
Natures Prophet
Phantom Assassin
Riki
Timbersaw
Faceless Void
Morphling
Storm Spirit
Puck

Most of these heroes have a mobility teleport/blink as a core gameplay mechanic. None are specifically like Riven, but many share abilities similar to Riven.

[Kuntantee]

Hello. Riven is my favorite champion in LoL, Is there any similar champion in DOTA2? Like many mini-dashes and such.

I can't remember any. At best, you can spam spells with invoker with aghanim. In terms of spell spamming, he's close to LoL but he has no dash and not very mobile.

Also, in terms of in-and-out style hero(I think raven was that kind of champion) storm spirit will suit you if that's what you are seeking.

edit: and PUCK

---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 12:04 AM ----------

I don't understand why Sackman's opinion on pause bothers the fuck out of you as much as I couldn't understand how pause bothers him this much.

[Keyzz]

Sackman,

Do you understand the concepts of common courtesy? Human decency? Being civilized? Respectful of others?

You demand these things out of everyone else, yet you seem to have none of them yourself. I would be willing to bet the majority of pauses are things that come up. Not pauses just for the sake of pausing (though they do exist). Maybe someone got an important phone call they weren't expecting. Maybe someone unexpectedly shows up at the door. Maybe their internet disconnects and they need to reconnect.

Instead of pausing games, I have a great new solution for you. In order for anyone to play a match of Dota, they have to fulfill a checklist:

1) Go the bathroom. Even if nothing comes out, sit/stand there until something does, for if you need to afk 30 seconds to piss during a game, you are an a**hole.
2) Call your ISP and make sure the connection is as perfect as possible and there is zero chance of an interruption.
3) Reboot your router just in case. If it is more than a month old, buy a new router (better safe than sorry)
4) Text everyone in your phone, telling them you are unavailable for an hour and a half. Or turn your phone off and hope there isn't an emergency (more doable if you have no friends and/or family)
5) Place bear traps in front of your front door so no one can get to the door and ring your doorbell. If you also have a backdoor, think about a giant net trap. Like Slark!
6) Go to the bathroom again, by now some time has passed and you won't want to hold it in during the game.

I think if everyone performed all 6 steps before a game, we wouldn't have to pause anymore!

In all reality, your idea is foolish. I'm pretty sure earlier you stated that if someone joins your game and uses a non-english language, you immediately abandon the game. Maybe that is why you are playing in a grouping of players who pause all the time for no reason? I don't think I am an elite dota player by any stretch, but rarely do pauses happen. If they do, the person (or his friend) requests a pause in all chat and gives a reason. Most of the time, no one argues against the pause and we wait for him to return (unless its 5+ minutes). The reason everyone waits, is because we would rather enjoy a good game rather then waste all of our time.

Heres a math problem for you. Which is larger? Wasting 40 minutes of 9 people's time because we didn't respect someone's wish for a pause and then the game swings heavily in someone's favor OR wasting 1-2 minutes of 9 people's time and waiting for a pause? Personally (and maybe I'm crazy), I would rather wait 2 minutes and continue a balanced game than just keep playing through and ruin a good game.

Now, I'm sure you're going to suggest if we get rid of pauses then we wouldn't waste any time at all since there's no pausing. But that is not the case as if we remove pauses, people will STILL have to go afk at times. There will still be emergencies. There will still be dc's. So instead of having the option to pause momentarily, we will instead default to the scenario of ruining the game for everyone.

When I played WoW and would lead raids, if someone in the raid had to run afk real quick, do you think I just cancelled the raid at that point? "Sorry, no waiting for anyone, raid's over". Or maybe we should just pull a boss with 9 people and ensure a wipe.

Instead of DEMANDING everyone's respect of your time, maybe you should SHOW some respect to other people. Maybe you should understand that things happen, situations arise, instead of being an arrogant and clueless common-variety internet crybaby.

[Lysah]

Dunno about you, but most people make orders for pizza during "dinner" time.. usually between 5 and 8. During this time it can take 45 to an Hour and a Half (depending where you live) The average dota game is over in 45 minutes... if he ordered once the que popped and was in game... then he figured he had time for that 1 game... not his fault pizza dude was fast.

Yes, it is his fault. If you're going to eat, you go eat. If you're going to play DotA, you play DotA.

Honestly, putting the video games down for 30 minutes should not be such a chore for people, and I find it appalling that people are actually defending this behavior.

People need to stop pretending like unpausing is a selfish act of one person - ONE person is pausing and NINE people are waiting on that person, I'm just the person being vocal about it. On that note, if you really consider a 2 minute AFK from someone game ruining and you think it's wasting your hour of Doto then you probably take the game way too seriously. I have yet to see a game ruined because I had to step away for a minute, or because I unpaused on someone.

[Keyzz]

On that note, if you really consider a 2 minute AFK from someone game ruining and you think it's wasting your hour of Doto then you probably take the game way too seriously.

I would argue that you take 2 minutes of your time way too seriously.

[Lysah]

I would argue that you take 2 minutes of your time way too seriously.

Do you consider your time meaningless?

To use your own raid analogy - if someone went AFK during a raid they'd get replaced and probably not invited back. We're not here to waste 24 people's time because 1 person couldn't wait an hour to stuff his face.

[Keyzz]

Do you consider your time meaningless?

I do not. That is why I value my 40-50 minutes invested in a game of Dota over the 1-2 minute pause.

Also, I disagree with your comment about ONE person inconveniencing NINE people. It may be a minor inconvenience, i will admit that. In an ideal world, no one would ever have to pause. From my experiences, when someone in a game needs a pause, there is 1-2 people who refuse to pause and 7-8 who don't mind pausing. So really it is the 1-2 who are anti-pause who are the minority.

It blows my mind how earth-shattering a 1-2 minute pause can be for some people.

[Lysah]

I believe sackman already spelled out the heart of the problem for you. If this were a once in a while thing, no one would be complaining. But I agree with what he said, games get paused quite close to 100% of the time I play DotA, and half of the time someone DCs they simply do not come back. We spend 10 minutes waiting for a game that is going to be ruined anyway. I don't even want to know how much of my life has been wasted staring at a frozen screen because of pizza boys and rage quitters that every white knight on the internet wants to wait for.

[Enkidulgaa]

Yes, it is his fault. If you're going to eat, you go eat. If you're going to play DotA, you play DotA.

Honestly, putting the video games down for 30 minutes should not be such a chore for people, and I find it appalling that people are actually defending this behavior.

People need to stop pretending like unpausing is a selfish act of one person - ONE person is pausing and NINE people are waiting on that person, I'm just the person being vocal about it. On that note, if you really consider a 2 minute AFK from someone game ruining and you think it's wasting your hour of Doto then you probably take the game way too seriously. I have yet to see a game ruined because I had to step away for a minute, or because I unpaused on someone.

I think most people rather have a problem when someone acts like an ass, yet tries to take the moral highground by saying other people "are wasting his time"
Nobody gives a fuck what anyone in this thread does in game. But they shouldnt come into the thread trying to act rightous and then flip their shit when they get called out for being an ass.

[Keyzz]

I believe sackman already spelled out the heart of the problem for you. If this were a once in a while thing, no one would be complaining. But I agree with what he said, games get paused quite close to 100% of the time I play DotA, and half of the time someone DCs they simply do not come back. We spend 10 minutes waiting for a game that is going to be ruined anyway. I don't even want to know how much of my life has been wasted staring at a frozen screen because of pizza boys and rage quitters that every white knight on the internet wants to wait for.

Considering I am sure you play in a higher level than I do, I would have to say I flat out do not believe these claims. Sackman almost assuredly plays in a very low MMR or in the LPQ as he openly admits to abandoning games whenever there is a non-english speaker. So I am almost tempted to believe there is a good deal of pausing in his games (though I feel he deserves it for being in LPQ).

I would say in my games, pauses happen in 50% of my games. I would be willing to say that they come back about 90% of the time and the interruption is almost always under 2 minutes. Also, we usually only pause on a DC if a friend of their's vouches for them and tells us he is coming back. Also, a DC right after someone being killed is usually assumed to be a rage quit and rarely paused for.

I don't have much experience in these constant 10 min pauses with people not coming back that you speak of. Maybe you are having a bad string of luck, or maybe you are full of crap, it is tough to tell the difference.

Also, enjoying a friendly, balanced game of Dota does not make me a white knight. It makes me considerate. I apologize for the confusion

[Lysah]

I can't remember the last time a pause was actually useful for maintaining a game, actually. It gets abused quite often at the start of team fights or by people about to die (so they can spend their gold), though. The vast majority of cases are DCs that never reconnect, of course. The pizza incident pissed me off quite a bit, but luckily since he didn't DC we were able to just chain unpause and he only managed to waste a minute of my life with his selfishness.

To be honest, I'm not sure where my MMR is right now. It still takes me 25 minutes to find a game so I don't think much has changed.

[Hermanni]

Yes, it is his fault. If you're going to eat, you go eat. If you're going to play DotA, you play DotA.

Honestly, putting the video games down for 30 minutes should not be such a chore for people, and I find it appalling that people are actually defending this behavior.

People need to stop pretending like unpausing is a selfish act of one person - ONE person is pausing and NINE people are waiting on that person, I'm just the person being vocal about it. On that note, if you really consider a 2 minute AFK from someone game ruining and you think it's wasting your hour of Doto then you probably take the game way too seriously. I have yet to see a game ruined because I had to step away for a minute, or because I unpaused on someone.

You're kind of assuming everyone who needs a pause knew beforehand that they would and do so just out of lack of consideration. But what happens when someone encounters one of the shop bugs, the game is all random and they took a moment to consider repicking and swapping heroes and they notice the bug 20 seconds before creeps spawn and need to restart their game? It happens quite often, could happen to anyone and 95% of the time everyone in the game are content to wait from 30 seconds to a minute when the guy restarts his client, and the guy politely thanks everyone for their patience and makes it to his lane in time.

I don't find it very fun when I take every lasthit in mid for free from the first 3 creepwaves before the other guy shows up at level 1 and proceeds to get owned without a chance to comeback. I doubt it's very fun for them to get slammed and possibly blamed, not for their lack of skill but for someone else's lack of patience, and I don't think it would be very fun for the other team when I snowball out of control from my lane and if the game turns into a one sided stomp. Doubt it would be very interesting for my teammates either.

Again, a rather generalized example, but this has actually happened to me several times. Most of the time when someone disconnects and has no friends in the game nobody even pauses the game and the player comes back anyway.

[Keyzz]

I can't remember the last time a pause was actually useful for maintaining a game, actually. It gets abused quite often at the start of team fights or by people about to die (so they can spend their gold), though. The vast majority of cases are DCs that never reconnect, of course. The pizza incident pissed me off quite a bit, but luckily since he didn't DC we were able to just chain unpause and he only managed to waste a minute of my life with his selfishness.

This has been addressed elsewhere with the suggestion to have either a 3 second delay on a pause request so that is less possible or to have a request sent over to other team and someone would have to accept it. Seeing as some people have so little regard for other people, I do not think the second option is very smart.

I do feel sorry for you that you had such an awful incident one time in probably thousands of games where someone ordered pizza and paused the game over and over. Luckily for the rest of us, you and Sackman do not code for Valve, and they make much smarter decisions for the Dota playing community as a whole

[Lysah]

etc

I've never seen a pause due to shop bug, I'm not convinced the bug still exists. Pauses tend to happen after someone "DCs" a few seconds after first blood or fifty minutes into a game.

@Keyzz
When did I suggest removing pause? You don't even know what you're arguing against.