[Megathread] DotA 2

[cudomix]

The way I see it, dota tries to equalize mmr of both teams (probably because of some flawed notion that good players can cover for their bad teammates, it is possible in some other games, but in dota early advantage usually snowballs into victory), which usually makes random games just frustrating. Now, this system was probably chosen because of short queue times, matchmaking by strict MMR will probably result in unacceptably long wait times. Valve does have some really smart guys, it is possible that current queue system was chosen because it was simple and fast to implement, for all we know they're working on completely new system under the hood.

Honestly, random matchmaking will always have lot of flaws, it is a necessary consequence of required short queue times. Only possible solution I see are large clans, so people will have to try and prearrange their matches and opponents in order to have balanced game. But considering dota is a team game, would stronger emphasis on community be that bad?

[Hermanni]

For me the search range seems to be a pretty good indicator of how far from front page my game is.

[Lysah]

Which is why I want a non-rated mode where MMR doesn't exist at all.

[PizzaSHARK]

what is the fog of war

No places exist in rune spots where you wouldn't be able to see Rubick hanging out, waiting for you. I've gotten first bloods on a lot of Rubicks thinking they could make it onto someone's cutesy highlight reel by tossing someone onto the cliff.

they were running out of the rosh pit and they were far ahead, literally the only reason we won was that fight

Wards?

isn't that your cue for saying awful game design or are those limited to people beating you in pubs?

People being dumb isn't something that necessarily has to factor into how the game is designed. Why didn't they have wards?

[Sarevokcz]

Which is why I want a non-rated mode where MMR doesn't exist at all.

isnt that what private games are for?

[Hermanni]

isnt that what private games are for?

Only the custom game system doesn't really support people playing anything but games among friends or pre-arranged games. All they'd need to do is implement a list with a bunch of filters for all public custom games and 'mmr free' games would be easy to make and join. I don't know why it isn't implemented yet, they even had it in HoN, although HoN didn't even have MM in the earlier days. It was silly how over half the lobbies had "noobs only" in their name and were always full average mmr pubstompers.

[Bullarkie]

Need a Dota 2 key for my bro if anyone has one.

Steam: Snydely5
Email: Snydely5@hotmail.com

[Deleted]

e: They fixed Telekinesis and Vacuum getting people stuck at rune cliffs. It seems like no amount of forum posts will make Valve fix stuff, they fix stuff when it's a top-post on r/dota2 or when something happens in pro games. Merlini also criticized cliffing two days ago. I'm not sure if this is ideal, but given the way Valve operates, I understand it.

I don't see why they fixed the cliff below bot rune where you could actually tango your way out but not the one to the northeast where there's nothing you can do.

I intentionally used Fiend's Grip on that creep next to you.

#mindgames

I totally meant to cast Nightmare on that ally. I swear, I was trying to deny him.

Need a Dota 2 key for my bro if anyone has one.

Steam: Snydely5
Email: Snydely5@hotmail.com

Addedededed

[Sarevokcz]

Only the custom game system doesn't really support people playing anything but games among friends or pre-arranged games. All they'd need to do is implement a list with a bunch of filters for all public custom games and 'mmr free' games would be easy to make and join. I don't know why it isn't implemented yet, they even had it in HoN, although HoN didn't even have MM in the earlier days. It was silly how over half the lobbies had "noobs only" in their name and were always full average mmr pubstompers.

So basically what w3 had? like "browse games" menu where you can join whatever public game you want depending on description/filters? While I would expect something similar, especially if we will be able to make custom maps in the future, I dont really see the point other than "I dont want my MMR to suffer when playing with friends" since I just cant see random public game being better balanced than average MMR game.

[Bullarkie]

Addedededed

Awesome I will let him know. He's new to steam so hopefully he can figure it out.

[Lysah]

Screw custom games, just have a matchmaking system that measures MMR based on total wins vs games played. Win percentages might not be the best way to make fair games, but they will put stacks against stacks and 50% pubs against 50% pubs. While me and my friends might be better players than most of the people we play against, if we only win 50% of the time, queuing together is clearly not a big benefit for us. If it was, our win % would go up and we would face other higher win percentage players. In this way you have a system that should not only fill games very quickly, but actually try to keep everyone around 50% instead of just stacking terrible players and good players on the same team to reach some imaginary mathematical average. The only real downside is people who intentionally lose/loss bot to tank their % and face easier enemies, but how much of this would actually happen? Loss botting was only huge in war3 because you could more easily farm wins for portraits.

[reighnman]

If anyone has a key to gift send me a msg please, have another buddy interested

[Longview]

No places exist in rune spots where you wouldn't be able to see Rubick hanging out, waiting for you. I've gotten first bloods on a lot of Rubicks thinking they could make it onto someone's cutesy highlight reel by tossing someone onto the cliff.

?



Rubick has free vision but I cannot see him

the point is also not that I should have used Shadow Walk

Wards?

People being dumb isn't something that necessarily has to factor into how the game is designed. Why didn't they have wards?

I don't see why they fixed the cliff below bot rune where you could actually tango your way out but not the one to the northeast where there's nothing you can do.

?

- Added two additional restricted locations for Vacuum and Telekinesis (across the river from the existing ones).

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=75685

[Something]

I have a few keys I can gift on Steam if anyone is interested (:

[Sackman]

I'm a firm believer that any hero can be stopped by something, whether it is an item or another hero or a general playstyle (don't let the game last 60 min vs. Medusa). But, Magnus can farm anywhere and can't really be ganked easily because of skewer + being a strength hero. He can also give free farm to a melee carry on his team. I could excuse those two facts, and I did for a while, but how many times do you have to sit through a level 9 Magnus getting a mega kill completely solo because of his three nuke combo before you agree that he's a bit unfar...I want to say you can just spread out and avoid it, but, since skewer drags people a good Magnus is actually very unavoidable. He can skewer 2 people into 2 other people and then ult and shockwave and they're all dead. The combo without any help at all is enough damage to kill most supports/hard carry instantly and reduce strength heroes to very low health.

Damage component definitely needs to be removed. As it stands he is the best initiator in the game - bar none. You just cant beat a blink, rp, skewer and then for extra cc, a charge. Followed by anything.

[Deleted]

Recently tried out a sort of "utility" build for Dwarven Sniper. I ran him mid, got a fast bottle into phase into Shadowblade, secured rune control pretty easily because my opponent didn't seem very comfortable with his hero and thusly my bottle was almost always full. Used that to spam Shrapnel on his tower and it went down in roughly 8 minutes.

Then it was ganking galore with my Shadowblade/Phase, grabbed an Orchid followed by a Desolator, finished off a Sheepstick and Boots of Travel. It was probably the most fun I've had in Dota for a long time.

This is probably a well established build, but its the first time I've attempted it and now I want to play nothing but utility Sniper. Any item suggestions?

[Longview]

This is probably a well established build, but its the first time I've attempted it and now I want to play nothing but utility Sniper. Any item suggestions?

Maelstrom and Manta Style are both pretty common pickups that work well with him. Depending on what you're up against, consider getting a BKB or a Ghost Scepter. Try not to rely on Shadow Blade as an escape, and don't underestimate it as a way to initiate.

[PizzaSHARK]

?

Rubick has free vision but I cannot see him

Wards. Beastmaster Hawk. Shadow Poison. Rocket Flare. Countless other ways of getting vision.

the point is also not that I should have used Shadow Walk

It isn't? You wouldn't have gotten cliffed if you were invisible in this case.

Sentry Wards, etc etc etc.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 11:36 PM ----------

Maelstrom and Manta Style are both pretty common pickups that work well with him. Depending on what you're up against, consider getting a BKB or a Ghost Scepter. Try not to rely on Shadow Blade as an escape, and don't underestimate it as a way to initiate.

Mjollnir is almost what I'd consider core on him, since the only thing Sniper needs is attack speed. Drums are useful for stats, too.

I usually end up doing something like treads and drums into a casual hyperstone. Lothar's is really good on him, but in my experience he doesn't need an escape button if you position yourself well.

[Longview]

Wards. Beastmaster Hawk. Shadow Poison. Rocket Flare. Countless other ways of getting vision.

We are talking about cliffing at level one. Cliffing later on is not as strong when you already have gold to spend on TPs and a crow to ferry you one.

It isn't? You wouldn't have gotten cliffed if you were invisible in this case.

No, it isn't. The point is that Rubick could cliff heroes at level one, from the highground. Not all heroes have invisibility or a twitch escape mechanic. That's what the entire discussion was about.

Sentry Wards, etc etc etc.

So if the enemy team doesn't stack sentries with obs, that's somehow them "being dumb"? You don't think Vacuuming four people up a cliff they can't escape is too strong? Instead of actually refuting my point, you just run circles around it and attempt to dismantle the situation it happened in. I don't get it.

[PizzaSHARK]

We are talking about cliffing at level one. Cliffing later on is not as strong when you already have gold to spend on TPs and a crow to ferry you one.

Literally all of those abilities are available at level 1. There's also only a couple of places where Rubick could hide to cliff you from, and it's only one rune spot, and only really a problem for the first rune spawn of the game. You should have a crow by time 2 minute rune spawns, and even if you don't, someone can easily hike to the sideshop and toss you a TP scroll if necessary.

No, it isn't. The point is that Rubick could cliff heroes at level one, from the highground. Not all heroes have invisibility or a twitch escape mechanic. That's what the entire discussion was about.

And why do they feel level 1 cliffing was too strong? There are so many ways to spot it before it happens, or just simply outright avoid it.

So if the enemy team doesn't stack sentries with obs, that's somehow them "being dumb"?

Why do you need sentry wards?

You don't think Vacuuming four people up a cliff they can't escape is too strong?

Not at all. By time vacuum has a large enough AOE (unless you were all stupid and piled up right next to the cliff), you have a ridiculous number of ways to avoid getting vac'd into a cliff.

Instead of actually refuting my point, you just run circles around it and attempt to dismantle the situation it happened in. I don't get it.

I've been providing examples of why I think the "cliffing is too strong," argument is full of holes and is essentially a bullshit argument. I don't get it, either.