[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

I know you're all Dota's fans. But could you give me an advice which is better for beginner: LOL or Dota2?

LoL is easier to get into. DOTA is MUCH more fun in the end, and this is from someone who has played more LoL than DOTA.

Oh, btw, what hero will be imported in dota 2 next?

Skywrath mage most likely.

[Jaxi]

Oh, btw, what hero will be imported in dota 2 next?

http://www.cyborgmatt.com/

This guy does content analysis for each patch, as well as predictions for the next hero. You can track the work Valve is doing on each hero in the Dota 2 - Unreleased Hero Status tab at the top: http://www.cyborgmatt.com/dota-2-unr...heroes-status/

[Deleted]

Omni can carry easily and was picked as a mid solo carry a lot in d1. Dazzle makes a great support carry if you build him as -armor and damage, same as SD. I've definitely gone for treads/MoM/etc. types of items as SD and abused curse/purge for kills on anybody all game, just like I've rushed desolator on dazzle to carry my team.

If you want a hero who just CAN'T carry you should pick CM. That hero really can't do anything but hide in the back and cast a spell now and then and place wards. She used to be an int carry but Icefrog put a stop to that the second he took control of allstars.

Wait, I remember playing her as a carry when I stopped playing DOTA 1. So maybe I was doing it right, because yesterday I was thinking how much of a noob I was for playing her as a carry. Was her ultimate a bunch of cone of colds?

[PizzaSHARK]

I think this mentality that in a game must be *someone* playing *support* who don't get exp and gold so he can buy (and where he should get money for it, heh) wards, dusts, gems, smoke AND be able to not being 1 shotted due to level and item disadvantage. There is no hero in dota who don't benefit from getting items. Not a single one.

I never said that. I said that, by design, there are heroes that are meant to require lots of items, and there are heroes that are meant to not require lots of items. The former are referred to as carries, and the latter referred to as supports. There are also many heroes that occupy the spaces in between and they don't fit into either definition because they can be played a variety of ways; I personally feel like the game would be better if every hero was like that, but that'd be a Herculean task and probably require several months of constant balance patches and changes.

But the fact remains that the team has to have wards, dust, and other stuff like that, and someone has to buy them. Generally you want the least item-dependent heroes (the supports) to get them so the carries don't have to delay their items. Smart players understand that it doesn't matter who buys them as long as the team has them... but most pubs aren't smart.

And, honestly, it kind of irritates me to win a game when my team had one of those broken-English "mid" instalock carry players that suck at the game; it's like giving them a win they don't really deserve.

[Deleted]

He requires items to be useful (try playing OD as a 4 or a 5 in an organized AP or CM game and watch what happens), so he can't fill the traditional "support" role.

Except not really. Sure if he's there to mana burn the Invoker he has to get items but if all he has to worry about is Tiny he's not gonna have to sweat it that much.

[PizzaSHARK]

Except not really. Sure if he's there to mana burn the Invoker he has to get items but if all he has to worry about is Tiny he's not gonna have to sweat it that much.

OD without items is squishy as hell and not particularly threatening.

[Deleted]

OD without items is squishy as hell and not particularly threatening.

Okay.
Do go on.

[PizzaSHARK]

Okay.
Do go on.

So why would you pick him as a support role? SD provides the same banishment ability, Nyx is better at draining mana.

[Deleted]

So why would you pick him as a support role? SD provides the same banishment ability, Nyx is better at draining mana.

Nyx is not better at draining mana. Assuming targets are building purely intelligence and not +mana (which they won't be most of the time but hey, let's give you a handicap), every point gives 13 mana. Nyx burns 5 of this mana, around 40%. OD drains 75%.

Nyx could probably do this several times over the course of a fight and also in lane but OD's is AoE. Which one you prefer here depends mostly on the enemy's team composition rather than flatout saying apples over oranges.

Also, SD does not provide the same banishment ability. Arguably, OD's is stronger in the earlygame while SD's is stronger in the lategame.

[Kjalar]

So why would you pick him as a support role? SD provides the same banishment ability, Nyx is better at draining mana.

I guess the right answer is "I wouldn't pick OD in any circumstance". There are tons of better supports and he's too easy to shutdown to be a reliable carry (silence or magic immunity => no orbs, no ult => no damage, GTFO). Of course, maybe that's just my experience, but I've never seen OD carrying the game, even when fed. A fed PL, Naix, Gyro, Sven or Luna are all way stronger carries, IMO.

On "support VS carry" topic though - I guess you guys talk about different things here, so there's no way you can't agree. Some of you say that any hero CAN support/carry, which is of course true. The others say that there's a non-written convention that some heroes MUST support/carry and that convention affects your team's picks, gameplay and tactics as they expect everyone to play "by the rules", so it's generally a good idea to follow these rules - and that's also true. You can argue that the communication is the key and that you can always talk your team into feeding your Shadow Demon, but from my experience, that only works if you play with friends. Otherwise you'll get a lot of GTFO NOOB chat comments and angry reports most of the time.

[Longview]

https://twitter.com/TKosmatka/status/322285261402804224

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...played-pc-game

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/TKosmatka/status/322285261402804224

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...played-pc-game

Looks more like DFC are being idiots to me.

[Longview]

Yea p much

[hiragana]

Still, im amazed so many people play a BETA 0.o, i cant imagine how many will play it once its released.

[PizzaSHARK]

Nyx is not better at draining mana. Assuming targets are building purely intelligence and not +mana (which they won't be most of the time but hey, let's give you a handicap), every point gives 13 mana. Nyx burns 5 of this mana, around 40%. OD drains 75%.

Only if they fall within the certain level of INT where OD doesn't tickle them for 125 damage (since he has no items) but also drains mana. There are also very few direct +mana modifiers, the vast majority are +INT. Core items for many heroes such as Manta, Meka, Force Staff, and Drums all boost mana. Arcane Boots are the only reliably-seen item that boosts mana directly.

Also, SD does not provide the same banishment ability. Arguably, OD's is stronger in the earlygame while SD's is stronger in the lategame.

SD's is generally better at all stages since the duration doesn't depend on skill level and so you can always know how long it'll last. Illusions also can help with bodyblocking, contribute a little damage, etc. INT steal from OD's is pretty awesome, but short cast range means it's not really likely you can float around stealing INT from a bunch of heroes well before a fight takes place.

[Lysah]

Wait, I remember playing her as a carry when I stopped playing DOTA 1. So maybe I was doing it right, because yesterday I was thinking how much of a noob I was for playing her as a carry. Was her ultimate a bunch of cone of colds?

Yeah, it actually did damage back then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAhWAhhxfOE

[Deleted]

Only if they fall within the certain level of INT where OD doesn't tickle them for 125 damage (since he has no items) but also drains mana.

Like I said, depends on the composition. 10 int difference is pretty tiny but at 11 he could easily burn away the mana of Tiny and his supports.

There are also very few direct +mana modifiers, the vast majority are +INT. Core items for many heroes such as Manta, Meka, Force Staff, and Drums all boost mana. Arcane Boots are the only reliably-seen item that boosts mana directly.

Indeed there are very few but at level 6, Arcane Boots could easily constitute 20-30% of a hero's overall mana pool

doesn't depend on skill level and so you can always know how long it'll last.

If you're not sure, that's not an issue of hero design, it's an issue of player skill.

Illusions also can help with bodyblocking

If the enemy is standing in the middle of trees and you happen to get proper spawns. Unless the SD somehow gives movement orders to his illusions before they've spawned, the player is going to start moving before them and pretty much ignore the illusions completely.

but short cast range means it's not really likely you can float around stealing INT from a bunch of heroes well before a fight takes place.

Who says you have to cast it before a fight? I said you had an advantage earlygame i.e. mostly while you're still laning. SD doesn't become scary unless he has someone to set it up with, OD gets scary if he just does it enough times.

[Hermanni]

Bruno what?

[PizzaSHARK]

Who says you have to cast it before a fight? I said you had an advantage earlygame i.e. mostly while you're still laning. SD doesn't become scary unless he has someone to set it up with, OD gets scary if he just does it enough times.

Eh, well... not really. OD will dominate CS against most heroes, but he's not really that dangerous until he hits level 9 and takes his orb, and he doesn't reach the "okay, OD is three-hitting full HP supports" point unless he has a considerable amount of INT/mana.

OD isn't super super item dependent, it's more that he needs farm/XP because he needs to have his Force Staff/Atos/Mystic Staff/Orchid/etc before the enemy carry has their BKB.

[Deleted]

Ok after playing LoL for few months,I took a break and decided why not give Dota a try.
So here I am now wanting to know what would be good support champ to play for new player,that wouldn't be too complex/skill based, also is there some sort of "beefy/tanky" supports like in LoL for example(they were my mains), because I noticed that most supports are caster type which I assume is bit squishy.