1. #9001
    Quote Originally Posted by 2euphoric4me View Post
    http://dotametrics.wordpress.com/201...s-not-a-carry/

    Just read the url.

    I remember people talking about how Abaddon should be a carry instead of support earlier in the thread, so thought I'd post this.
    The writer seems to be stuck on the idea that the oh em gee number 1 safe lane trilane farmer is the only way to play carry. And that you need a steroid to be able to carry. And every hero only has one 'real' role. And that the current pro 'metagame' is the absolute only way to play Dota. All in all, a lot of words over a mindset that is already too narrow to discuss the issue.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-07-17 at 08:07 PM.

  2. #9002
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by 2euphoric4me View Post
    http://dotametrics.wordpress.com/201...s-not-a-carry/

    Just read the url.

    I remember people talking about how Abaddon should be a carry instead of support earlier in the thread, so thought I'd post this.
    Abaddon works fine as a carry. He also works as support. Why must a hero be stuck in one role? Play the hero according to your hero lineup and enemy heroes.

  3. #9003
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    cool thank you

    I still haven't lost with support Abaddon, 6-0

    Zefie support too good I think

    wasn't it "never play abaddon support" or something

  4. #9004
    MATCHMAKING
    - People who decline Matchmaking are temporarily restricted from searching for 45 seconds.
    - Parties are more likely to be matched against other similarly sized parties.
    - When matching parties, the matchmaker now also considers the minimum experience level on both teams rather than just the average.
    - Reduced the average skill variance in games where there are 10 individual players.
    - Fixed a bug in the matchmaker that was causing it to insufficiently segregate players based on win count.
    - Fixed a bug that would cause excessive queue times, especially for large parties or high skill players.
    nice to see some changes

  5. #9005

  6. #9006
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    our mid
    Stopped reading at that. If you want to maintain any credibility in your argument against the MM system try to at least come up with something besides "I always play perfect but mid feeds so he must be bad." I've read people write that exact same thing too many times.

    In my experience, if your game isn't in the first 20 pages you shouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't fully understand what their hero does or how some abilities interact with each other.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-07-17 at 11:03 PM.

  7. #9007
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Link? I'm at work.
    http://imgur.com/a/gGyjy

    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Also - Longview if I were to start gathering data would you start to believe me?
    I don't know what type of data you could gather that would indicate how good a player actually is. They shut that out of the API.

    As an example, I played Weaver today. Here's the first one and here's the second one. I played one more. You can't draw any reasonable conclusions about my skill-level from the stats. It makes absolutely no difference whether I die seven times in a damn row, or if I go 16-1. I'm just as mediocre.

    I won't argue the fact that dying seven times in the same lane in a row should be awarded with some sort of moron medal, but that's what I'm saying. You can't get any type of accurate data from K/D/A, number of games played, win-rate or whatever. None.

    It sucks to solo-queue, I don't think I've been in a MM-game alone in well over a year by now. Dota is a team game, and it's best played with a stack. I quit HoN mostly due to visible ratings and getting flamed every single game I played because my friend played my account up from 1450 to 1600. There wasn't anything I could do. If I joined a "noobs only" lobby, they'd kick me because my KDA was too high. If I joined a MM-game, I'd get ravaged and flamed. I think people having bad games and getting flamed is awful, but I think that getting flamed due to your visible rating/KDA/winrate/whatever ("don't let brown go mid fucking shitter you better support") is ten times worse. I know that wasn't your point, but I don't see many other alternatives to "fixing MMR".

    Personally I haven't noticed the matchmaking system being fucked. This might very well correlate with the fact that I never solo queue.

    If you do end up gathering some sort of non-useless data, I'd be interested to see it. If I would believe you or not is a different case entirely.

  8. #9008
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Link? I'm at work.
    http://i.imgur.com/M0sg1iU.jpg


    eh too slow


    kinda related to abaddon necro tree strat
    Last edited by Finear; 2013-07-17 at 11:17 PM.

  9. #9009
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    You've read that far too many times because it's so common. Game starts with a guy demanding mid even though his hero isn't suited to playing against enemy QoP mid(another example) and he proceeds to feed, not gank and just generally let QoP get horribly farm.
    I've heard it too many times because people like misjudging their skill level and then using anecdotal evidence as an argument for their 'true' skill. I'm 99% certain you're right where you should be in terms of MM and if you aren't you will be within 10 games.

    This may come as a shocker but usually the mid in either team loses. Sometimes they just get less farm and sometimes they get completely owned, but that doesn't prove that anyone in the game is higher or lower in MMR. If your queue time goes above 5 minutes or so then you can expect less balanced games, and if you don't solo-queue then you'll have to remember that your party might consist of 2 or more friends of very different skill levels queuing together.

  10. #9010
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    kinda related to abaddon necro tree strat
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMgv69stb7w
    hahaha 10 minute rax with 3 - 1 killscore

    nice

  11. #9011
    ive been in beta since november 2011 and i also cant say that mm is broken
    early into beta i was pretty rusty after 1.5y of lol my friends were able to play more and difference between solo queue and stack was huge later i managed to catch up and my solo games were much better and as i keep improving (at least i hope so ;p ) my teammates still are at similar lvl of skill unless i plat at like 5am 1 server AR (what hermanni said about queue times)

    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    hahaha 10 minute rax with 3 - 1 killscore

    nice
    and 5 blademails

    poor tinker ;c



    damn thats super cool, now you can time rosh from chat wheel

    more here
    http://imgur.com/a/wXaVS
    Last edited by Finear; 2013-07-17 at 11:45 PM.

  12. #9012
    Matchmaking is seriously buttfucking my team. There is something wrong about it since release. It never worked like this.

    To give a more detailed example, our team was this (win count per player): ~150, 94, ~63, ~30, <10 while their team was 200+, 300+, 300+, 400+, 600+

    I mean what the hell. And we weren't on a winning streak. And they matched us 3 or 4 games like this, with us having 2 newbie players and 2 players below 100 wins, while they had 200-600 wins. I wouldn't mind if it matched us against people with 100-200 wins (even then it would be unfair because we had 2 *almost complete* rookies), but this was just beyond silly. There is no way we can teach our rookies if we get guys like this that even the most experienced players on our team have problems dealing with.
    "Loss of blood... My only weakness!"
    ~ Warlord Khan, Magicka

    Anyway, if you don't already see where I'm going with this, allow me to spell it out: the only meaningful MMORPG "endgame" -- i.e., something novel to do after the progression process is over -- is that of the sandbox.

  13. #9013
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    Zefie support too good I think
    Pressing W on people who eat stuns is hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    But why he looked way better before.


    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    It's just grabbing the first other group of 5 it finds and throwing you in the deep end. Seriously broken system.
    Did you try the limited hero pool matches in the tutorial? Those are truly first-5-it-can-find. Try queueing for one and if it's exactly the same as every game you get when queueing, well...

  14. #9014
    Deleted
    Well queue started moving now, even if they only let 20k in... Im at least nr 2000ish now, and it's also too late to play for me for a week+ now so no use nagging anymore, will probably be ready by then.

    So lets talk game stuff instead. I will be a complete noob for sure, and Im interested in heroes like puck and razzle, they are cute and one is pink and so =) How hard are they to play or are they noob friendly?

  15. #9015
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tea View Post
    So lets talk game stuff instead. I will be a complete noob for sure, and Im interested in heroes like puck and razzle, they are cute and one is pink and so =) How hard are they to play or are they noob friendly?
    Puck is really squishy and requires good positioning.
    Dazzle requires you to be able to read the situation really well and time your spells.

    That said, both of them are pretty simple at their core. They're not the easiest heroes but not the hardest.

  16. #9016
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Puck is really squishy and requires good positioning.
    Dazzle requires you to be able to read the situation really well and time your spells.

    That said, both of them are pretty simple at their core. They're not the easiest heroes but not the hardest.
    Ok, perhaps not heroes to start with directly? Start with sniper (the easiest one or?) and when feeling stronger advance to next step that might be these 2 guys?

  17. #9017
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Stopped reading at that. If you want to maintain any credibility in your argument against the MM system try to at least come up with something besides "I always play perfect but mid feeds so he must be bad." I've read people write that exact same thing too many times.
    People wouldn't write it so much if it weren't often 80% truth. I usually end up waiting 8-15 minutes for a game, maybe because I only queue for AR (AP is garbage and the other modes are too reliant on your teammates knowing how to pick heroes.) Most of my games, there's a clear difference in skill level/comprehension between players on a team, let alone the two teams. Sometimes it ends up being "even" - each team has a relatively equal number of bad players and good players - but more often, one team has a noticeable advantage over the other. I'm willing to admit that some of these games might otherwise have been even matches if not for AR being a garbage gamemode that seemingly nearly always gives one team a much stronger lineup than the other... but it's not like there are better options.

    I don't get too terribly many Russians, Brazilians, or other "oh, god, not one of them..." types anymore, but I still get a lot of games where I feel I'm considerably better than my teammates/enemies, and sometimes I'll be in games where I feel considerably outclassed by my teammates/enemies. In either case, I feel it's a failing of the matchmaking system not being accurate enough. Think it's something that'll get fixed on its own as numbers of active players increase, or is this an issue with the matchmaking setup itself?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tea View Post
    Ok, perhaps not heroes to start with directly? Start with sniper (the easiest one or?) and when feeling stronger advance to next step that might be these 2 guys?
    Sniper is a very hard carry, almost useless without items. You're gonna need to know how to last hit effectively with him (he has garbage base damage and an unusual animation), and he also has no escape mechanism - if you get opened up on, you're going to die. Drow Ranger would be a better starting hero if you want to play a ranged hero - she's like Sniper in that she's a squishy ranged carry with no escape mechanism, but she's less item reliant due to her ulti, and once you hit 6, you have to try pretty hard not to get last hits.

    Dazzle and Puck are accessible, though not beginner level. Dazzle's easy to understand, but it's all in the timing - and every time you mis-time a Shallow Grave, your teammates will flame you for it.

    When you finish the tutorial, it should boot you into a limited-heroes queue; pick heroes from that list to get used to before trying others. All of the heroes in that list are brainless to play, and many of them are competitively strong, too.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  18. #9018
    Quote Originally Posted by caractacus View Post
    Hmmm. I'm from the UK and played around 800 games and I don't think I have ever had to wait more then 7 mins for a game. currently I usually get a game after about 1 min of queueing sometimes sooner it seems to be a lot quicker recently. Can I ask do you have many abandons? I have 3, all due to connection problems my end. I think there might be a priority system regarding abandons and reports. My advice would be have as least amount of abandons as possible and be nice in games.
    1 abandon due to DC. Such long queues were very rare, mostly when I played late at night (or early in the morning, depends on how you look at it). Can't say it happened to me lately, since I started going to sleep a lot earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    You can't claim to know anything about the second without knowing about the first.
    The only claim I made in my previous post is that your post is irrelevant, since I was talking about completely different thing. The rest were my observations.

  19. #9019
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    People wouldn't write it so much if it weren't often 80% truth. I usually end up waiting 8-15 minutes for a game, maybe because I only queue for AR (AP is garbage and the other modes are too reliant on your teammates knowing how to pick heroes.) Most of my games, there's a clear difference in skill level/comprehension between players on a team, let alone the two teams. Sometimes it ends up being "even" - each team has a relatively equal number of bad players and good players - but more often, one team has a noticeable advantage over the other. I'm willing to admit that some of these games might otherwise have been even matches if not for AR being a garbage gamemode that seemingly nearly always gives one team a much stronger lineup than the other... but it's not like there are better options.

    I don't get too terribly many Russians, Brazilians, or other "oh, god, not one of them..." types anymore, but I still get a lot of games where I feel I'm considerably better than my teammates/enemies, and sometimes I'll be in games where I feel considerably outclassed by my teammates/enemies. In either case, I feel it's a failing of the matchmaking system not being accurate enough. Think it's something that'll get fixed on its own as numbers of active players increase, or is this an issue with the matchmaking setup itself?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sniper is a very hard carry, almost useless without items. You're gonna need to know how to last hit effectively with him (he has garbage base damage and an unusual animation), and he also has no escape mechanism - if you get opened up on, you're going to die. Drow Ranger would be a better starting hero if you want to play a ranged hero - she's like Sniper in that she's a squishy ranged carry with no escape mechanism, but she's less item reliant due to her ulti, and once you hit 6, you have to try pretty hard not to get last hits.

    Dazzle and Puck are accessible, though not beginner level. Dazzle's easy to understand, but it's all in the timing - and every time you mis-time a Shallow Grave, your teammates will flame you for it.

    When you finish the tutorial, it should boot you into a limited-heroes queue; pick heroes from that list to get used to before trying others. All of the heroes in that list are brainless to play, and many of them are competitively strong, too.
    Ok thanks bro, that's great info that seems like it will help a lot =) Will try learn those first =) Good thing I will play with friends that know Im noob and are prepared for it :P

  20. #9020
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tea View Post
    Ok thanks bro, that's great info that seems like it will help a lot =) Will try learn those first =) Good thing I will play with friends that know Im noob and are prepared for it :P
    A general recipe for success at all levels of play, from the lowest of the low to the best professional players, is to just stack stuns. You'll almost never go wrong by picking a hero with a stun or some other kind of powerful disable. Stuns, hexes, that sort of thing - all super super strong in Dota, and since there aren't any sort of diminishing returns on the effects, you're never hurting yourself or your team by picking up more of them.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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