1. #9001
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    I'm starting to lose my fucking cool with this game. 500 games in since I came back over from HoN and it's really starting to wear thin. (moved from DotA 1 to HoN)

    I've lost 8 games in a row now due to feeding team mates.

    This game needs a better matchmaking system and it needs one NOW.

    I don't feel like I'm playing the game anymore. I feel like I'm playing against the matchmaking queue. Russian Roulette. Gambling.


    Why is it so hard for them to implement a system that matches "High"(which is what it is telling me I am) skilled players against 9 other "High" skilled players.



    Also: Where the fuck did the solo matchmaking button go? What the fuck.
    It was the same in wc3 dota. You didn't knew skill level of players who walked into lobby, but you could kick them (if you ignore in dota 2, you won't get them in your games anymore) so basically it's the same as it used to be.

    Making matchmaking system is hard because it will have flaws (league of legends), community will flame people for having low score, and others will flame for having higher score than everyone in their team. I don't want to talk about this again, but making a matchmaking system via points (mmr or whatever) will make community even worse, and this will lead to decay of player base.

    If you don't want unskilled players in your team, you need to stop playing this game. It's online game and until you will have 5v5 custom lobby it will always be gambling.


    And i didn't used solo que system because it's too boring. Playing against premades are fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  2. #9002
    Scarab Lord scarecrowz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    It was the same in wc3 dota. You didn't knew skill level of players who walked into lobby, but you could kick them (if you ignore in dota 2, you won't get them in your games anymore) so basically it's the same as it used to be.

    Making matchmaking system is hard because it will have flaws (league of legends), community will flame people for having low score, and others will flame for having higher score than everyone in their team. I don't want to talk about this again, but making a matchmaking system via points (mmr or whatever) will make community even worse, and this will lead to decay of player base.

    If you don't want unskilled players in your team, you need to stop playing this game. It's online game and until you will have 5v5 custom lobby it will always be gambling.


    And i didn't used solo que system because it's too boring. Playing against premades are fun
    Playing against premades are fun are they? You must have your own premade then because you aren't winning solo against premades unless they're throwing.

    Losing repeatedly when it isn't your fault is not fun.


    Any system has its flaws mate but a points based system is better than this shit.

    Tell me what is wrong with grouping 1300 rated players with each other. They don't get repeatedly stomped. They can learn new heroes. They don't have their team abusing them constantly. This will keep them in the game to slowly BUILD that rating up and slowly play more skilled players.

    DotA 2s learning curve is its biggest deterrent because noobs get stomped repeatedly. The tutorial is not enough.


    Why is it bad to have a full game of TEN people all rated around 1800? We all get to have an enjoyable game. No one ruins the game for us and no one ruins the game for noobs. Stopping smurf(read: new accounts with low rating used to troll/stomp noobs) accounts is simple too. Don't let a new account play ranked games until its completed the tutorial and a certain number of bot matches.

    The current system is dog shit.



    Then there is the theories going around in certain forums that if you win 5 games in a row the matchmaking will purposefully throw you into games with people it KNOWS have no clue what they are doing. All because they don't want you having a massive win %. /tinfoilhat
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    PS - you might want to update your sig, since the player you are quoting was long ago banned for being a troll and trouble maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    PS - you might want to spend more time researching why he's actually banned. Most of the time it's because his opinion doesn't line up with the opinions of threads he posts in and because the mods of this forum are most of the time a joke and just instantly ban people instead of actually looking at the reason.

  3. #9003
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    I've lost 8 games in a row now due to feeding team mates.
    Have you met retards that buy no regen (since they want fast Midas or something) and get killed by the Tidebringer spam alone?

    Maybe it'll become better as more people will join the game. I feel that right now the playerbase is too small, so the MM system basically grabs everyone who's in the queue at the moment to create a game ASAP.

  4. #9004
    Deleted
    Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
    Just maybe.
    You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.

  5. #9005
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
    Just maybe.
    You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.
    How dare you even suggest this

  6. #9006
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
    Just maybe.
    You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.
    You know the difference between 'rating' and 'matchmaking'? I'm talking about the latter.

    For example, a mediocre player enters the queue. As long as there are only 9 other people currently in the queue, no matter how godly/terrible they are, the guy will play with/against them.

    Of course, there are usually more than 9 people in the queue. Yet every time I wait for 7+ minutes, the search range becomes so wide I end up getting a weird match. IMO, that's a direct result of the game having rather low population.

  7. #9007
    Scarab Lord scarecrowz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
    Just maybe.
    You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.
    That's why I'm situated between High and Very High right bud? Must also why I repeatedly get not ONE, not TWO but sometimes THREE feeders/people with no clue whilst the other team is like some kind of Zerg hive mind with their co ordination and general High skill level.


    Matchmaking seems to be doing its job there doesn't it?

    I am 100% aware that people have "bad games" but this is every. single. fucking. day.

    The system is broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    PS - you might want to update your sig, since the player you are quoting was long ago banned for being a troll and trouble maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    PS - you might want to spend more time researching why he's actually banned. Most of the time it's because his opinion doesn't line up with the opinions of threads he posts in and because the mods of this forum are most of the time a joke and just instantly ban people instead of actually looking at the reason.

  8. #9008
    Scarab Lord Hraklea's Avatar
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    Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
    Just maybe.
    You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.
    I've had this discussion a thousand times with LoL players (I don't play LoL anymore, no need to troll me =P). Except for all the top players claiming "Dunning Krieger effect" - which is a two way road: high elo players don't want to accept that the rating system is broken because that would mean they are not as good as they think they are -, the conclusion we had is that solo queue requires a different set of skills than premades, and probably one of the most important is leadership. There are people that know what their team is don't wrong, knows how to win, but they can't convince their teams to do what is right.

  9. #9009
    Scarab Lord scarecrowz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlowingInTheDark View Post
    You know the difference between 'rating' and 'matchmaking'? I'm talking about the latter.

    For example, a mediocre player enters the queue. As long as there are only 9 other people currently in the queue, no matter how godly/terrible they are, the guy will play with/against them.

    Of course, there are usually more than 9 people in the queue. Yet every time I wait for 7+ minutes, the search range becomes so wide I end up getting a weird match. IMO, that's a direct result of the game having rather low population.

    Haha dude my queues range from instant to 3 minutes max generally. (Australia)

    Instant queues probably = getting thrown into a 3/5 or 4/5 team.

    3 minute queues are quite fast meaning there are thousands of people in the queue but it can't queue 10 people of equal skill together?

    Broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    PS - you might want to update your sig, since the player you are quoting was long ago banned for being a troll and trouble maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    PS - you might want to spend more time researching why he's actually banned. Most of the time it's because his opinion doesn't line up with the opinions of threads he posts in and because the mods of this forum are most of the time a joke and just instantly ban people instead of actually looking at the reason.

  10. #9010
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Playing against premades are fun are they? You must have your own premade then because you aren't winning solo against premades unless they're throwing.

    Losing repeatedly when it isn't your fault is not fun.


    Any system has its flaws mate but a points based system is better than this shit.

    Tell me what is wrong with grouping 1300 rated players with each other. They don't get repeatedly stomped. They can learn new heroes. They don't have their team abusing them constantly. This will keep them in the game to slowly BUILD that rating up and slowly play more skilled players.

    DotA 2s learning curve is its biggest deterrent because noobs get stomped repeatedly. The tutorial is not enough.


    Why is it bad to have a full game of TEN people all rated around 1800? We all get to have an enjoyable game. No one ruins the game for us and no one ruins the game for noobs. Stopping smurf(read: new accounts with low rating used to troll/stomp noobs) accounts is simple too. Don't let a new account play ranked games until its completed the tutorial and a certain number of bot matches.

    The current system is dog shit.



    Then there is the theories going around in certain forums that if you win 5 games in a row the matchmaking will purposefully throw you into games with people it KNOWS have no clue what they are doing. All because they don't want you having a massive win %. /tinfoilhat
    Yes, it's fun and interesting, because you can see how good some heroes work with each other. Or you think that if you have two people premade playing smoothly, getting kills and provide vision good, but if they are on enemy team it's bad and not fun? Wow.

    You won't get a game of 10 people with 1800 mmr, because you will get game with 1800 at average. Then the guy with 1790 will flame at the guy with 1710 for not buying chicken because he has lower elo.
    Getting stomped is a way to learn the game too. You don't need to win all the time to be a better player.

    Currently, they have their hidden mmr system and you are placed with players of your "skill" level (with same average wins/loses/kda/creep score/games played/games leaved/games lost today/games won today/what you ate at breakfast/how is your mood now/whatever else) and i often notice that more game i win, more stronger players i face. When winning streak ends, i still have strong players in my games but if i keep losing, i face more and more SF mid with 10 cs at 7 minute (not only on my side, i often find horrible opponents and try to get fed from them to secure win).

    And this theory of having win stream and suddenly being threw to a team full of noobs is awesome. You have same odds to get noobs in your team with 10 wins streak, it doesn't mean that being at 1800 rating will save you from playing with people who have/are connection issues/bad day/wan't to play hero that they didn't played for months/tries new meepo build/trolls/kitchen or cat on fire.
    And you do know that winning/losing lane requires luck too? I mean, if you got random hit from nature prophet ult in the same as BH popped out on you and you gave away FB.
    Or when enemy gets his ult earlier because you had to back off to get items from courier so he won't be sniper by the same nature prophet.
    Or even when you got forced to leave lane as weaver/brood mother because of tons of sentries on you lane but your team doesn't care.
    Can you say that's you fault for losing because of this? No. But you will be blamed for it and you will get angry. And when you are angry you start playing very bad (like landing "revenge" kill on enemy by diving into tower at half health just to eat global silence and get killed).

    All i can say is the players you meet in your games plays on the same level as you most of the time. I know that many people won't care about "most of the time" part, but it's very important. You won't play on the same skill level, sometimes you play better, sometimes you play worse it depends on many many MANY things going on, and matchmaking is not one of them
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  11. #9011
    Quote Originally Posted by GlowingInTheDark View Post
    You know the difference between 'rating' and 'matchmaking'? I'm talking about the latter.

    For example, a mediocre player enters the queue. As long as there are only 9 other people currently in the queue, no matter how godly/terrible they are, the guy will play with/against them.

    Of course, there are usually more than 9 people in the queue. Yet every time I wait for 7+ minutes, the search range becomes so wide I end up getting a weird match. IMO, that's a direct result of the game having rather low population.
    Hmmm. I'm from the UK and played around 800 games and I don't think I have ever had to wait more then 7 mins for a game. currently I usually get a game after about 1 min of queueing sometimes sooner it seems to be a lot quicker recently. Can I ask do you have many abandons? I have 3, all due to connection problems my end. I think there might be a priority system regarding abandons and reports. My advice would be have as least amount of abandons as possible and be nice in games.

  12. #9012
    Deleted
    I'm a complete noob (played about 25 games total) at Dota and probably play far worse then the average player, but I already feel a huge difference in team balance between games. I mean sometimes my team wins in 20 minutes and everyone is helpful and works together, place wards in the right spots, buy meaningful items etc, while the next game I play with Pudges who waste all mana by hooking creeps and supports that try to rush to Butterflies and Mantas while speaking only Russian.

    Everyone makes mistakes, me probably more then most, but it becomes pretty boring fast as no matter if I make 50 mistakes or 5 the outcome of the game is pretty much predetermined from the start.

  13. #9013
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by GlowingInTheDark View Post
    You know the difference between 'rating' and 'matchmaking'? I'm talking about the latter.

    For example, a mediocre player enters the queue. As long as there are only 9 other people currently in the queue, no matter how godly/terrible they are, the guy will play with/against them.

    Of course, there are usually more than 9 people in the queue. Yet every time I wait for 7+ minutes, the search range becomes so wide I end up getting a weird match. IMO, that's a direct result of the game having rather low population.
    You can't claim to know anything about the second without knowing about the first.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    That's why I'm situated between High and Very High right bud? Must also why I repeatedly get not ONE, not TWO but sometimes THREE feeders/people with no clue whilst the other team is like some kind of Zerg hive mind with their co ordination and general High skill level.
    Cue Longview linking the post about how your 'replay bracket' has nothing to do with your MMR for the 15th time.

  14. #9014
    Quote Originally Posted by senkyen View Post
    I'm a complete noob (played about 25 games total) at Dota and probably play far worse then the average player, but I already feel a huge difference in team balance between games. I mean sometimes my team wins in 20 minutes and everyone is helpful and works together, place wards in the right spots, buy meaningful items etc, while the next game I play with Pudges who waste all mana by hooking creeps and supports that try to rush to Butterflies and Mantas while speaking only Russian.

    Everyone makes mistakes, me probably more then most, but it becomes pretty boring fast as no matter if I make 50 mistakes or 5 the outcome of the game is pretty much predetermined from the start.
    I used to get put with loads of russians when I first started. My advice would be keep playing, report anyone for genuine reasons, don't abandon and just be nice in game or if your like me "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. You should find after a while you start playing with a much better calibre of player. I still get the odd russian but generally they are not abusive, try to play as a team and try communicating in english to the best of their ability.

  15. #9015
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    I found a checkbox of "only solo que" in the prefered language thingy. Probably some of you will find it useful
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  16. #9016
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    80k
    if i had known. i would have given keys to bots to hand out. i got only 1. atleast got it yeaa.

    also why is change notes so obscure..
    abaddon and this was a pleasant suprise

  17. #9017
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Cue Longview linking the post about how your 'replay bracket' has nothing to do with your MMR for the 15th time.
    I'm just going to lift the entire post I did last time, you feel me?

    Here's a few points I made a while back, they're relevant to the MMR discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    There has been statements by high-ups over at dev.dota2.com that levels are purely cosmetic, and they've also said that win/loss-ratio doesn't determine what your rating is (neither does number of wins). It is not rare to see a difference in the 40-50's when I queue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    The only thing we do know about the match making system is that it's a modified version of TrueSkill, which is more accurate than ELO in a multiplayer scenario. ELO works better for single player scenarios such as chess. Read more about TrueSkill here.

    We also know that match making rating is not based on wins or losses, and we know that there are a lot of variables in action. What variables this might or might not be is pure speculation unless you are an employee of Valve. If you ever visit Valve HQ, they may tell you what percentile you're in - they told TobiWan that SingSing was the highest ranked player when he visited. That was a long time ago though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    [...] the three tiers of rating are not related to match making rating. Rather, they're there to help distinguish "good" games with higher than average G/XPM and whatever else Valve chose - with the intent to help players find good replays. (Source)
    TLDR: MMR isn't based on win/loss (hi hermanni), has nothing to do with your cosmetic levels, or the number of games you have played. There's a ton of information being pulled from every player in each game to determine your ranking. You're then queued against players at your own rating (the longer the queue, the broader the potential MMR difference between players in one game becomes). If you're getting feeding russians every other games, this means two things:
    • You've a case of selective memory
    • These players are at or around your own skill level

    Quote Originally Posted by Anakonda View Post
    One thing i miss from HON was it's ranking & matchmaking/balancing system. People always raged about it, but it worked like a charm. In dota2, the moment i enter a very high game rating, i instantly get matched with feeding russians (MID OR FEED PIZDA SUKA) and plop back down. Sigh.
    I disagree. I live with two dudes who still play HoN (and Dota 2, but mainly HoN). Shit like "lmao dont let brown or oj go mid fucking shitters" is commonplace. Repulsive.

    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    That's why I'm situated between High and Very High right bud?
    In HoN, the equivalent of being in "high" matchmaking is around 1600 rating, so probably, yeah. That's true if a majority of your games are there.

    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    The system is broken.
    Do you have anything to back this up with? Anything at all except guesses and critique? No? We've had this discussion well over ten times, and it's always the same thing being posted. Contrary to your experience, I do not find that the system is broken. Very few times over the course of 1500-something games have I felt that the skill difference of the teams are that bad. It's a fruitless and redundant discussion, nothing will come of it and nobody will agree - unless you have something to stand on.

  18. #9018
    Deleted
    Dotabuff had for a short while a rating system implemented until Valve decided to make data private. According to Gabe Newell, the system Dotabuff used was very similar to the one that was implemented in Dota 2. The reason Valve haven't made ratings public, according to Gabe, is because they haven't implemented a system which they believe is good yet.

  19. #9019
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Dotabuff had for a short while a rating system implemented until Valve decided to make data private. According to Gabe Newell, the system Dotabuff used was very similar to the one that was implemented in Dota 2. The reason Valve haven't made ratings public, according to Gabe, is because they haven't implemented a system which they believe is good yet.
    source plz

    the only thing I've seen is where he said that their system was shitty

  20. #9020
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    source plz

    the only thing I've seen is where he said that their system was shitty
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhgOqyZHBIU

    19:57

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