[Megathread] DotA 2

[Pantelija]

How is it outrageous claim? Sing is in page 1 games. Shadow Blade is bought plenty. The Spirit Breaker also had Shadow Blade in the Troll game. The QoP game the Jugger in his team had SB, seemed to work out pretty well. The SF game Prophet has SB. As you can see, in every game you linked there was one or more SBs in it. People build it all the time in high MMR games.

If it was very easy to counter, people wouldn't build it. We're talking top MMR here, page 1. There is no higher than that. Only pro games are higher and even they build SBs.

Tbh i dont know why we are using Sing as "role model" for Very High bracket when most of his gameplay and builds are trollish in nature apart from times when his stack is facing some other famous players/stacks like that famous Mirana Sing vs EE Shadow Fiend mid game.

Shadow Blade is easy to counter, most of the pros who build Shadow Blade build it very early (around 13th minute and earlier) and most of the times have some backup plan/item build when the enemy team notices said hero with Shadow Blade and starts buying dust and sentries

[Deleted]

And now nobody knows nothing. What now.

You grab two team mates and go and ward?

It's not a good excuse but an added benefit. Just like how you can initiate with Force Staff as well as kite.

Perhaps, but the question remains if that minor benefit outweighs the major benefit of BD.

Doesn't matter too much if you get a kill and a gem. Worth the time of at least 3 people.

So 3 people try to gank 3 people? I don't see the issue here.

Which I would because I know DotA-fu so I can magically estimate where everyone is at all times.

Good for you I suppose?

[Deleted]

Care to explain why?

She literally posted this on the same page as that one.

[Deleted]

Err, what? Blink Dagger does nothing if you can't do something now. Blink Dagger is excellent for Batrider and Puck because if they blink in they can make things happen now. For those the Blink Dagger is an obvious choice. Heck, their viability depends on that stuff.

But for most heroes a Shadow Blade is plain better.

I just love all the arguments that support why this is the case, oh wait, there isn't any, just like with Hermanni.

Shadowblade can be countered but gives a small damage bonus, Blink Dagger can't be countered but gives no damage bonus. The whole possibility of countering is a rather large issue.

[Drunkenvalley]

Blink Dagger can't be countered but gives no damage bonus. The whole possibility of countering is a rather large issue.

Blink Dagger is easily countered. It's called "kill that stupid fucker who just blinked in between all of us".

[Deleted]

Blink Dagger is easily countered. It's called "kill that stupid fucker who just blinked in between all of us".

That's not a counter, and having Shadowblade wouldn't have made any difference. If they are actually able to kill you that easily when you blink in, then you failed with the blink...

[Deleted]

Tbh i dont know why we are using Sing as "role model" for Very High bracket when most of his gameplay and builds are trollish in nature apart from times when his stack is facing some other famous players/stacks like that famous Mirana Sing vs EE Shadow Fiend mid game.

Shadow Blade is easy to counter, most of the pros who build Shadow Blade build it very early (around 13th minute and earlier) and most of the times have some backup plan/item build when the enemy team notices said hero with Shadow Blade and starts buying dust and sentries

Because he gets page 1 games and you can see people build it in his games. Why do you refuse to believe that people buy SBs in page 1 games? Is it really that unimaginable?

[PizzaSHARK]

Which is funny, because a year ago I was the only person in this thread advocating Shadow Blade on any hero. Everyone just spat out the "easy to counter with 180g two charge item" crap I'm seeing today. And yet, almost every single person from a year ago who argued with me now agrees with me, I wonder what happened.

(best part is, the item has actually been NERFED since then)

Didn't it receive a huge buff about the same time Valve was walking around with a Black and Decker and targeting kneecaps?

[Drunkenvalley]

That's not a counter, and having Shadowblade wouldn't have made any difference. If they are actually able to kill you that easily when you blink in, then you failed with the blink...

More seriously, Blink Dagger is stupidly easily countered by... *drumroll* Disabling the Blink Dagger. Wow, that was easy. Would've thought someone found this to be difficult. That's genuinely how difficult it is. Putting it out of play is as simple as forcing them to blink or force them to sit on their ass. Neither is difficult to accomplish.

That said, in retrospect this conversation is stupid, because now we're just talking SB vs BD with no context. Some heroes are going to benefit from Blink Dagger a lot, ie Enigma making wild plays with his Black Hole. But your Dragon Knight will not. It just... doesn't do anything for him. I mean, you blinked in, what do now? ...Fire Breath, I guess?

And what about Alchemist? You think he'd benefit from a Blink Dagger more than a Shadow Blade? I hope to god your answer to that is no.

[Pantelija]

Because he gets page 1 games and you can see people build it in his games. Why do you refuse to believe that people buy SBs in page 1 games? Is it really that unimaginable?

I am not saying people dont buy SBs in page 1 games, i am saying very little amount of people on page 1 games people buy SB and even those that do dont perform very well .

If Shadow Blade is as godly as you people claim it is, dont you think pro games would be full of Shadow Fiends, Luna's, Dk's and other mid and carry heroes running around every game with Shadow Blade?

Take a look at TI3 and the usage of Shadow Blade in those games.

[Deleted]

More seriously, Blink Dagger is stupidly easily countered by... *drumroll* Disabling the Blink Dagger. Wow, that was easy. Would've thought someone found this to be difficult. That's genuinely how difficult it is. Putting it out of play is as simple as forcing them to blink or force them to sit on their ass. Neither is difficult to accomplish.

That said, in retrospect this conversation is stupid, because now we're just talking SB vs BD with no context. Some heroes are going to benefit from Blink Dagger a lot, ie Enigma making wild plays with his Black Hole. But your Dragon Knight will not. It just... doesn't do anything for him. I mean, you blinked in, what do now? ...Fire Breath, I guess?

And what about Alchemist? You think he'd benefit from a Blink Dagger more than a Shadow Blade? I hope to god your answer to that is no.

For the disabling Blink Dagger part, only possible if you can see him/her, if he/she is within range, and he/she hasn't used it yet. Assuming all of those are true, sure you can disable it.

And no I don't think Alchemist should have Blink Dagger, I do agree that there are some heroes who prefer one over the other, and I would definitely not want to see Dragon Knight with it either. In the end Shadowblade does have a damage bonus, and some heroes can make more use of that than others. Kunkka is a great example of that, as well as Alchemist I suppose.

Blink Dagger is primarily used for setting up and lining up spells, Shadowblade is more of a ganking with surprise effect and extra damage.

[Drunkenvalley]

For the disabling Blink Dagger part, only possible if you can see him/her, if he/she is within range, and he/she hasn't used it yet. Assuming all of those are true, sure you can disable it.

Funny enough, Shadow Blade is among the easiest methods of dealing with a Blink Dagger when you put it like that...

[Deleted]

Funny enough, Shadow Blade is among the easiest methods of dealing with a Blink Dagger when you put it like that...

The easiest way is Zues ultimate or Spectre ultimate. But sure, if he sneaks up on you then you will probably not be able to do much. That's usually the case when it comes to ganks, and the entire point of ganking, taking them by surprise and making sure they don't escape.

[Drunkenvalley]

The easiest way is Zues ultimate or Spectre ultimate. But sure, if he sneaks up on you then you will probably not be able to do much. That's usually the case when it comes to ganks, and the entire point of ganking, taking them by surprise and making sure they don't escape.

And also half the point of Shadow Blade. Anyhow, my point is that Shadow Blade offers a more reliable escape from those situations; short of getting instantly shat on you've got an item that isn't by default useless if they manage to bump into you first.

[Deleted]

And also half the point of Shadow Blade. Anyhow, my point is that Shadow Blade offers a more reliable escape from those situations; short of getting instantly shat on you've got an item that isn't by default useless if they manage to bump into you first.

Blink Dagger is far from useless even in such a situation, at the very least on some heroes. I often pick it up on Windrunner, perfect for setting up shackles and powershots, usage of Windrun and you can easily dodge long enough to blink away. I'm sure other heroes can find other ways, or simply kite them amongst the tree's out of sight until you can use it. It is only 3 seconds after all.

Shadowblade, not so easy to escape with at all times, I always pick up dust against people with invisibility, Shadowblade included, so when it comes to escaping it works sometimes, but not if the enemy is prepared.

[Drunkenvalley]

Shadowblade, not so easy to escape with at all times, I always pick up dust against people with invisibility, Shadowblade included, so when it comes to escaping it works sometimes, but not if the enemy is prepared.

Unlike Blink Dagger, even if the trick is busted you still see some benefit though: You still have the 20% movement speed buff.

[Sarevokcz]

why are the pages filled with pretty much useless comparison between those two items? they serve mostly different purposes with some overlap and are used almost exclusively by different heroes, its not really "one or the other" on most heroes, since for them the other doesnt really make sense given their usual role and even those two outliners dont pick blink unless they are snowballing hard and can get the invested money back quickly. There is no point in taking SB on blink innitiators, even the less common ones that pick it more as a luxury rather than core, since they usually need to innitiate into enemy LoS, where SB just doesnt cut it, which is pretty much all pushes, either they are under tower or the other team sets up ward(s), while SB is great for map presence and ganking, with the added benefits of extra speed or avoiding enemy wards. both have their strenghts, SB is likely overall more "useful" item, whereas blink is more for some clutch and/or flashy play.

[Charge me Doctor]

Hey all, today I dled Dota 2 and registered for an own steamacc. Now I like to start playing but I can't connect to the Dota 2 Network, more then 20 minutes of waiting "Connecting to the Dota 2 Network" is annoiying, any tips?

You need to reboot the steam, i guess our arguing pros are too pros to answer

- - - Updated - - -

why are the pages filled with pretty much useless comparison between those two items? they serve mostly different purposes with some overlap and are used almost exclusively by different heroes, its not really "one or the other" on most heroes, since for them the other doesnt really make sense given their usual role and even those two outliners dont pick blink unless they are snowballing hard and can get the invested money back quickly. There is no point in taking SB on blink innitiators, even the less common ones that pick it more as a luxury rather than core, since they usually need to innitiate into enemy LoS, where SB just doesnt cut it, which is pretty much all pushes, either they are under tower or the other team sets up ward(s), while SB is great for map presence and ganking, with the added benefits of extra speed or avoiding enemy wards. both have their strenghts, SB is likely overall more "useful" item, whereas blink is more for some clutch and/or flashy play.

This guy is right.

After waking up i see 3 pages of ranting people about what's better, SB or BD. Fuck everything, let's argue about bracer vs null talisman? I'm with null, because i can build dagon from it, while bracer will just be kept in slot and do nothing but stats so it's a waste of money lategame. Am i doing it right?

But to just add anything to laugh at, why then people buy BD on earthshaker or tidehunter if SB is so superior? Right, because they don;t care about IAS or damage or phase-boots-thingy or melee half-assed dagon.
To end this discussion we should divide heroes to "do i need a low duration ghost walk?" and "do i need to catch enemy team out of position?". Beauty of BD is in instantly appearing in the middle of enemy team (or in the face of enemy carry) and stunning/slowing/killing/humping team with your instant, long CD, AoE, CC, skill.

You can't do that with SB against half-ass good players because they know that if there is 4 heroes on mid and the guy with SB is missing you need to drop blue ward or dust.

Sure SB gives you ghostwalk but you need decent mana pool to use it without gimping yourself due to short CD and being "usable" almost everywhere. (i use it even to just run faster when i do random things!)
Sure you can use SB the same way as phase boots (or even both, they stack) on, for example, brewmaster, to walk through enemy that runs away and thunderclap him to death, but the same way BD can be used.

BD is more a teamfight item when SB is more a "i'm a solo player, i do kilz" item. It's just not right to compare them. Better compare BD to HORSE STUFF. And SB to a MoM (mainly because they both backfire at you when you are doing it wrong)

And from what i've seen, 1st page games from dota 2 client is most viewed games, not "highest MMR"
And someone linked singsing profile, i looked at 1st page and found 3 shadow blades and 4 rapiers. So, rapier is more common thing than a SB then?

[Deleted]

And from what i've seen, 1st page games from dota 2 client is most viewed games, not "highest MMR"
And someone linked singsing profile, i looked at 1st page and found 3 shadow blades and 4 rapiers. So, rapier is more common thing than a SB then?

Check the page 1 again and look if the games are sorted by views. They aren't always. The reason the first page games get views is just because of that, they are on the first page. And the reason they are on the first page is because of MMR. You think people randomly join in on a game that just started? Because before creeps even spawn, if you're in a high MMR page 1 game, it will be 50 spectators already watching, even if there are no famous players such as streamers or pros.

That game with Rapiers on Kunkka actually had Shadow Blade until Sing decided to go Rapiers to win the game (2) and then bought 2 more when game was already won.

I understand it's hard for people who aren't on page 1-3 games consistently to understand that SB is very common but if you play there regularly, you'll see SB quite often. But why believe the people in this thread that actually get page 1 games about whether or not SB is seen in page 1 games... That'd be too easy, right? Or is there anyone in this thread that get page 1 games that can say SB is uncommon item?

[Deleted]

Shadow blade ES is pretty legit for sick enchant totem nukes