[Megathread] DotA 2

[Keyzz]

Just want to say, Icefrog is honestly really fucking retarded at balancing games. Axe with 4 HP/sec regen naked, NS with an ulti that reduces vision of towers and fucking WARDS by 25% with 2/3 uptime, god knows what else.

It cannot possibly be this hard to balance a game.

Lol some things never change.

[Hermanni]

Just want to say, Icefrog is honestly really fucking retarded at balancing games. Axe with 4 HP/sec regen naked, NS with an ulti that reduces vision of towers and fucking WARDS by 25% with 2/3 uptime, god knows what else.

It cannot possibly be this hard to balance a game.

Wards still pretty much cover the critical parts and paths from most common ward spots with reduced range, so it doesn't make a that huge of a difference. NS needed a buff after they changed the night cycle.

[PizzaSHARK]

Wards still pretty much cover the critical parts and paths from most common ward spots with reduced range, so it doesn't make a that huge of a difference. NS needed a buff after they changed the night cycle.

Actually it's a pretty massive change, because a lot of the best ward spots (the ones that are hard to de-ward without knowing specifically where they are) lose an entire section of coverage during Darkness. An immediate example might be the turtle ward on Radiant bottom rune; it loses vision of the rune spot and intersection entirely. A lot of jungle wards, both defensive and aggressive, will lose sight of sections of the map, especially since most jungle wards that aren't on top of cliffs already have to deal with trees, stairs, etc in the way.

And it's not like NS himself is bad. His playstyle has changed a bit, but he's still the same NS everyone knows and loves, only he's a fuck of a lot stronger now because of how commanding an advantage Darkness gives his team. People just need to realize that throwing away a mid to him is no longer the automatic best choice for him. He's REALLY good in duo lanes now.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol some things never change.

I know, right? 80 posts and you still haven't said a single thing of value.

[Deleted]

I know, right? 80 posts and you still haven't said a single thing of value.

You're a shitposter with no knowledge of balance whatsoever, get over it.

[PizzaSHARK]

You're a shitposter with no knowledge of balance whatsoever, get over it.

And yet I'm still better at predicting things and pointing out what's fucking bonkers than you are, so if I'm a shitposter, what's that make you? A second-class shitposter?

[Drunkenvalley]

It goes to show what sort of player you're up with when a "support" (??) brewmaster bodyblocks your large jungle camp (the one for pullthrough), then promptly complains when you, unaware that he's blindingly retarded, do a pull and discover the pullthrough camp isn't there...

Fairly satisfying to hear some douchebag call you noob and shit for what was their mistake to begin with, then you go ahead and land a bunch of kills for the team. And do literally all of the supporting on the team, because I don't even know anymore what brewmaster was trying to do.

[PizzaSHARK]

If you kids can't play nice I'm gonna turn this thread around and there'll be no Cape Canaveral for anybody!

Can we at least stop for an ice cream?

It goes to show what sort of player you're up with when a "support" (??) brewmaster bodyblocks your large jungle camp (the one for pullthrough), then promptly complains when you, unaware that he's blindingly retarded, do a pull and discover the pullthrough camp isn't there...

Fairly satisfying to hear some douchebag call you noob and shit for what was their mistake to begin with, then you go ahead and land a bunch of kills for the team. And do literally all of the supporting on the team, because I don't even know anymore what brewmaster was trying to do.

I've actually managed to mostly avoid people like that in my games this week, surprisingly. Usually my games are full of em :-/

[Jester Joe]

Just want to say, Icefrog is honestly really fucking retarded at balancing games. Axe with 4 HP/sec regen naked, NS with an ulti that reduces vision of towers and fucking WARDS by 25% with 2/3 uptime, god knows what else.

It cannot possibly be this hard to balance a game.

While I can see the NS thing, I'm honestly not that sure about why Axe having that much hp regen is bad. HP regen is about the only thing Axe can do well late game as far as I know, he drops off pretty fast.

[Keldarin]

For a hero that lives by getting hit by a lot of stuff, I'd say Axe has a perfect amount of HP regen. And Nightstalker is a nightmare, that's his stick if Darkness wasn't so utterly horrifying, he'd be a bad Sven or something.

[Longview]

at least NS doesn't have the dark ladys ulti from HoN

Cover of Darkness
Using the depths of her Dark Powers, The Dark Lady poisons the minds of all enemy heroes in an area. 
For the duration, affected enemy heroes move slightly slower, lose all allied vision and have a reduced sight range.

Level 1	Level 2	Level 3	Effect
Mana Cost	100	125	150	Applies Darkness to targets in radius for 4/5/6 seconds.
Darkness Effects 5/10/15% Movement Slow Shrinks vision radius to 500/450/400. Unlinks shared vision with allies.
Cool Down	120	120	120	
Range	2500	2500	2500	
Radius	800	800	800

[PizzaSHARK]

While I can see the NS thing, I'm honestly not that sure about why Axe having that much hp regen is bad. HP regen is about the only thing Axe can do well late game as far as I know, he drops off pretty fast.

Because it basically means you can't touch Axe in lane because he basically has 400 extra gold at the start of the game. Axe doesn't fall off if you build him properly. He stops doing 60% of a support's HP with a single spell cast, but call is still a 3 second "stun" on a ~12 sec cd that ignores BKB, and dunk is still dunk. People just build him bad and waste gold on garbage items like Blade Mail.

[Keldarin]

How do you build Axe right?

I've been trying a lot of different builds on him and I've found most effect with blade mail, blink and heart.

[Jester Joe]

How do you build Axe right?

I've been trying a lot of different builds on him and I've found most effect with blade mail, blink and heart.

Blade Mail is pretty iffy because the reason people get it is to pop before Call, but call gives you ridiculous amounts of armor, so they take less damage anyway. Before I believe it was mentioned that things like Mek aren't half bad on him.

Personally I still pick up a Blade Mail if they have a strong hitter so I can pop it when they try to target me down.

[minteK917]

Complaining about Axe hp regen is about as stupid as complaining about centaur str gain....

[Charge me Doctor]

Oh, guys, remember when some characters had stupid ults like +12 str? That was totally balanced and fun!

[veiledy0]

How do you build Axe right?

I've been trying a lot of different builds on him and I've found most effect with blade mail, blink and heart.

It's tricky because Axe has literally only one core item, and that's Blink. Everything else is 100% situational.

1. Mana Boots lets you dunk more than once. Tranquils are ok'ish if you start with a Ring of Regen, but if no one else is getting Mana Boots, then you should.
2. Blink. Sometimes even before upgrading boots. Never buy Vanguard, especially not before Blink. If you do, kill yourself.
3. Hood. Best defensive item on Axe in most games you'll play. He's only weak to nukes, like Lion's/Lina's spells. If there are none such against you, Heaven's Halberd. Blade Mail is reaaaaaaaaaaally situational. Both Sange and Drums are better most of the time, and cost the same.
4. Shiva's.
5. Heart.

If you're really snowballing and a true swagga, Bloodstone. But once you pick it up, all you do is run around the map and fight. Don't pick it up to farm the jungle with it.

[Charge me Doctor]

Wasn't that staff that has health and int on it and can slow single enemy at big range was quite good at Axe?

[LiiLoSNK]

it's good on all heroes ask aui_2000

[Keldarin]

But no one ever builds it, because fuck it Euls looks cooler

[PizzaSHARK]

It's tricky because Axe has literally only one core item, and that's Blink. Everything else is 100% situational.

1. Mana Boots lets you dunk more than once. Tranquils are ok'ish if you start with a Ring of Regen, but if no one else is getting Mana Boots, then you should.
2. Blink. Sometimes even before upgrading boots. Never buy Vanguard, especially not before Blink. If you do, kill yourself.
3. Hood. Best defensive item on Axe in most games you'll play. He's only weak to nukes, like Lion's/Lina's spells. If there are none such against you, Heaven's Halberd. Blade Mail is reaaaaaaaaaaally situational. Both Sange and Drums are better most of the time, and cost the same.
4. Shiva's.
5. Heart.

If you're really snowballing and a true swagga, Bloodstone. But once you pick it up, all you do is run around the map and fight. Don't pick it up to farm the jungle with it.

Pretty good assessment. 4 HP/sec regen base means tranquils are stupid on him and manaboots let you spam the everloving fuck out of Battle Hunger even more. Blink and brown boots are the only core items on Axe, everything else is going to depend on enemy heroes. Blade Mail CAN be good if there's, like, a Tinker or Skywrath Mage on the enemy team, you can run into flare or march of the machines stacks and do some damage. Otherwise it's bad.

Hood is very good for reasons you mentioned. Also allows transition to a quick Pipe for your team, which lets you push really hard. Manaboots help support the pipe cost.

Mekansm is also very good, you'll need manaboots.

Halberd is phenomenal as you enter the midgame, should get it after blink and an optional item (hood/meka), or you can just straight rush it if you really want. Makes you super tanky and gives you two ways to fuck enemy right clickers.

Agh's is very good later in the game, you can always chop creeps to give your team that crazy buff and it's slot-efficient for stats. You can get sheeper or shiva's if your team needs them. Force Staff at some point also works well. Eul's is a little goofy but works great as an alternative to hood/meka, I'd recommend treads or just brown boots until travels if you do that because manaboots will be overkill.

Heart is fantastic after you have some armor. Late game Axe basically blinks in, calls, and runs the fuck away before he gets gibbed. Heart lets you regen quickly so you can keep doing it until they finally pin you down and kill you. Force staff is extremely good, you can blink and then run towards your team and push the enemy or yourself to manipulate their positioning and makes you a lot less likely to get crit in half in the late game.

Vanguard is good ONLY if you're worried about summons doing damage (enigma, chen, bambi, profit, etc.) Otherwise it's trash.

So Axe works something like: salve(s) and early stats, brown boots, blinker. After that decide whether or not you need manaboots, and get them if you do. Otherwise work towards meka/hood/eul's/force. If you won't be going eul's, buy a ring of regen early on since it's needed for the other three and you can decide later. You can easily skip tangos/second salve and get a ring of regen straight from the shop with your initial gold, you basically get a permanent tango before creeps spawn because balanced.

Send Axe to a lane (don't fucking jungle him, he is awful at it) and make sure it's a lane he can bully hard. Slow, squishy supports like Rhasta, CM, and AA are favorite targets. Squishy heroes with low base damage and/or awful animations are also great - Drow and Sniper can easily be bullied right out of the lane by Axe. By his nature, Axe will usually shit all over enemy melee heroes. Send him mid to fuck Panda up, send him solo safelane to dick Tidehunter out of the lane, etc. Just walk up and right click them, creeps will proc spins, basically no one except Ursa and Juggy can tank the spins and still do enough damage to kill Axe before Axe kills them. If they back off, slap them with Battle Hunger and punch them some more when they come close to last hit something. Leverage your OP as fuck base regen against them and win the war of attrition. If you'll be laning against Axe, you seriously need to bring like 12 fucking tangos or some shit with you to lane (or run a tri that can reliably kill him without feeding kills in return) otherwise you'll never be able to get last hits.