[Megathread] DotA 2

[Charge me Doctor]

Well, playing against Puck it will force her to max it, because 3 stacks every 17 seconds will not help that much. It will delay her psi blades (harder to land Melds), and Meld (basically her main source of damage). You have to be careful tho and look when she uses refraction and track 17 seconds window when you are able to wear her shield down and deal damage (which will be healed in a second because bottle, har har har).

You are right, Puck won't win against TA but thanks to rune ganks he will be much more threatening for enemy team.

I don't remember playing against TA mid more than two times in whole dota 2 experience, one was when i played Zeus (spamming chain lightnings ate her refraction really well), second one Huskar (duh) i guess, before all this "doesn't care about magic damage lol" thing that happened to him. But when she was released in dota i played her a lot as tanky fighter with maxing psi blades and refraction because of how buggy meld was. Worked really well.

[LiiLoSNK]

ive always maxed psi blades very last because she has a slow and positioning with meld isn't that hard early game pre blink dagger

[Deleted]

Well, playing against Puck it will force her to max it, because 3 stacks every 17 seconds will not help that much. It will delay her psi blades (harder to land Melds), and Meld (basically her main source of damage). You have to be careful tho and look when she uses refraction and track 17 seconds window when you are able to wear her shield down and deal damage (which will be healed in a second because bottle, har har har).

You are right, Puck won't win against TA but thanks to rune ganks he will be much more threatening for enemy team.

I don't remember playing against TA mid more than two times in whole dota 2 experience, one was when i played Zeus (spamming chain lightnings ate her refraction really well), second one Huskar (duh) i guess, before all this "doesn't care about magic damage lol" thing that happened to him. But when she was released in dota i played her a lot as tanky fighter with maxing psi blades and refraction because of how buggy meld was. Worked really well.

What are you smoking? Meld her main source of damage? At max level, it's a 200-damage nuke on an "eh" CD. You get it for the -armour, and even then it can't compete with lvl 4 refraction giving you 6 instances of invulnerability AND 6 instances of basically a free MKB. Taking your first point in Psi Blades against a hero like Invoker or Pudge that can't trade hits under any circumstances is certainly a viable strategy, but not maxing Refraction first on TA is flat-out bad.

[Charge me Doctor]

What are you smoking? Meld her main source of damage? At max level, it's a 200-damage nuke on an "eh" CD. You get it for the -armour, and even then it can't compete with lvl 4 refraction giving you 6 instances of invulnerability AND 6 instances of basically a free MKB. Taking your first point in Psi Blades against a hero like Invoker or Pudge that can't trade hits under any circumstances is certainly a viable strategy, but not maxing Refraction first on TA is flat-out bad.

Without meld -armour she doesn't do that much damage early game. Skipping psi blades while maxing out meld and refraction sounds interesting (but from what i remember in 6.~10-20 versions of allstars map landing meld was real pain in the ass). Are you sure that you understand how meld works? It's not a nuke, it gives you bonus damage, with maxed out meld+refraction at level 8 you will hit for ~80+200+80 damage without items. Without meld TA is not scary at all, her extra 80 damage on low range attacks is nothing compared to extra 200 damage on one attack that also melts away almost all your armour. And lol at comapring extra 80 damage to a true strike mini-bash item that gives you buttloads of damage

[Grable]

TA is a cool hero until enemy picks Viper or any kind of DoTs

[Charge me Doctor]

TA is a cool hero until enemy picks Viper or any kind of DoTs

And iirc, dota 2 refraction is bugged and removed by hp removal skills like heartstoper aura...
Also, Spectre is quite good at removing refraction (just pull creeps, get hit, disperse damage will burn refraction)

[Deleted]

Without meld -armour she doesn't do that much damage early game. Skipping psi blades while maxing out meld and refraction sounds interesting (but from what i remember in 6.~10-20 versions of allstars map landing meld was real pain in the ass). Are you sure that you understand how meld works? It's not a nuke, it gives you bonus damage, with maxed out meld+refraction at level 8 you will hit for ~80+200+80 damage without items. Without meld TA is not scary at all, her extra 80 damage on low range attacks is nothing compared to extra 200 damage on one attack that also melts away almost all your armour. And lol at comapring extra 80 damage to a true strike mini-bash item that gives you buttloads of damage

I completely understand how Meld works, but this does not change the fact that you max Refraction first. Look at the skill build of TA in any sort of competitive game, and you'll see that nobody - nobody - no matter what the matchup is, skips maxing it first. Why? Because while Meld probably increases your early damage output against heroes, TA should be farming unless she gets a DD or Haste, and maxing Refraction with 1 point in Psi Blades allows you to completely dominate your lane. It makes you immune to harass, and since the change where denies don't consume an offensive Refraction charge, it lets you sit behind the creep wave and hit the other mid for 150 damage constantly.

I mean, you can think maxing Meld first is great all you want, but the fact of the matter is that you're just wrong. Not maxing Refraction with the current iteration of TA is bad. Just bad.

Edit: HP removal does not remove Refraction. It is not bugged. Furthermore, offensive and defensive charges of Refraction have been separated, which means that it doesn't really matter if your defensive charges are burnt - you still have complete lane superiority over all but a few heroes.

[Deleted]

If you really want to beat TA pick QoP, max Q and buy a sentry and suddenly TA is pretty easy to get out of the lane.

[Charge me Doctor]

But you said that TA has huge early game and now you say that she should just sit in lane farming through whole her advantage? Isn't it a job for, you know, late game heroes? And isn't that contradicts with your opinion on Midas? Because what's the point of getting drums+phase boots if you are going to sit on lane and harass your enemy instead of ganking?

[Deleted]

But you said that TA has huge early game and now you say that she should just sit in lane farming through whole her advantage? Isn't it a job for, you know, late game heroes? And isn't that contradicts with your opinion on Midas? Because what's the point of getting drums+phase boots if you are going to sit on lane and harass your enemy instead of ganking?

By the time you have Treads, Drums and Yasha (around 15 minutes unless you have lost mid completely) is when TA peaks in strength. By this time, both Meld and Refraction will be maxed. This is when you go looking for fights. What I see most TAs in pubs doing is get lvl 6, and then try to roam as if they're Nyx or something. This is not how you play TA. You gank if you get a favourable rune early, and then you sit in mid and get your core items, countergank, etc, until you can start forcing the issue around towers. YOLOing around like a fucking retard is not how you play TA, even if the average pub seems to play her that way.

[Charge me Doctor]

By the time you have Treads, Drums and Yasha (around 15 minutes unless you have lost mid completely) is when TA peaks in strength. By this time, both Meld and Refraction will be maxed. This is when you go looking for fights. What I see most TAs in pubs doing is get lvl 6, and then try to roam as if they're Nyx or something. This is not how you play TA. You gank if you get a favourable rune early, and then you sit in mid and get your core items, countergank, etc, until you can start forcing the issue around towers. YOLOing around like a fucking retard is not how you play TA, even if the average pub seems to play her that way.

And that's exactly what i meant, TA without (at least 2 points in)maxed out Meld is not going to scare anyone. It really doesn't matter what you max out first, without this burst and -armour you are not going to scare anyone except your mid lane "partner" who was already poked to half health or he is afraid that you can just walk around creeps and ram into you from meld and with refraction up

[Deleted]

And that's exactly what i meant, TA without (at least 2 points in)maxed out Meld is not going to scare anyone. It really doesn't matter what you max out first, without this burst and -armour you are not going to scare anyone except your mid lane "partner" who was already poked to half health or he is afraid that you can just walk around creeps and ram into you from meld and with refraction up

Sigh - but it does matter what you max out first. If you max out Meld first, you will lose your lane, horribly so. Psi Blades harass with Refraction up is what makes TA so formidable in lane, which is why you max Meld second. Never first.

[Deleted]

Refraction first is like the only legit build on TA. However, going 1-3-1 is best against Ember Spirit.

@PraisetheSun

I talked to ^^DragonFist^^ yesterday and he said he would probably go Boots->Midas->Phase->Drums if he played in a scrim unless the enemy could punish him for it. Funny how one of the best TA players would change his build when he actually plays with and against good people.

[Deleted]

Refraction first is like the only legit build on TA. However, going 1-3-1 is best against Ember Spirit.

@PraisetheSun

I talked to ^^DragonFist^^ yesterday and he said he would probably go Boots->Midas->Phase->Drums if he played in a scrim unless the enemy could punish him for it. Funny how one of the best TA players would change his build when he actually plays with and against good people.

You know what, let's just stop beating this dead horse here, shall we? I could write a page-long rant about how "would build Midas if I'm not going to be punished for it" != "Midas is a good pickup in most games", but at this point neither of us are willing to budge, so lets just discuss other things, shall we?

[Deleted]

who on earth is dragonfist?

[Deleted]

Some pub star that is really good with TA.


In other news, how do you roam early as Earth spirit, I try and it never works.

Normally I have to wait until level 5 or so the start making kills happen.

[Deleted]

Some pub star that is really good with TA.


In other news, how do you roam early as Earth spirit, I try and it never works.

Normally I have to wait until level 5 or so the start making kills happen.

Hit the roll.

[Deleted]

That's it ? just hit the roll and pray they help ?

[Deleted]

That's it ? just hit the roll and pray they help ?

Well, you usually ping on your teammates to go and you have to find the right lane to gank.

[Deleted]

Yeah I know that part :P