[Megathread] DotA 2

[veiledy0]

That was really impressive, and I don't even like rtz. He handles most situations in that game in a way I wouldn't even think is possible.

[EqualWin]

rtz has to be the best player at laning mechanic that is famous, Cty is also known to be the best at it.

[Deleted]

@PraisetheSun

This is why I once said Arteezy is better than DF when it comes to laning mechanics. His lane control and aggro control is just insane when he actually tries.
http://www.twitch.tv/arteezy/b/573790388?t=1h51m20s

He solo killed DF at level 6 but he could have solo killed DF at lvl 3 if he didn't fuck up his lift. Not every day you see a Rubick beat a TA mid in terms of CS and killing her too.

Not contesting that his laning mechanics are good (and probably better than DFs by a margin when he actually gives a fuck), but that video looks more like DF not knowing how the Rubick-TA matchup works and getting bit in the ass by it rather than Arteezy beating him with straight laning mechanics.

FWIW I also think the bottlecrowing nerf hurt DF a lot. Watching him lately, his decision-making WRT runes has seemed spotty at best now that he's actually forced to go for them.

[Deleted]

Just looked like shit play from TA at level 6.

Saw he took refraction and still decided to go on him, easy kill considering rubick already got a few hits on him before.

[Deleted]

Not contesting that his laning mechanics are good (and probably better than DFs by a margin when he actually gives a fuck), but that video looks more like DF not knowing how the Rubick-TA matchup works and getting bit in the ass by it rather than Arteezy beating him with straight laning mechanics.

FWIW I also think the bottlecrowing nerf hurt DF a lot. Watching him lately, his decision-making WRT runes has seemed spotty at best now that he's actually forced to go for them.

It's not like Arteezy is a master Rubick or something. He didn't even have proper hotkeys for the hero. There is nothing special to lane against Rubick. He has one nuke, like many other heroes. Rest just comes down to aggro control and lane management and harass. Watch the first waves. DF is not getting much and it's not because Rubick has some super special spell, it's just down to mechanics.

@Puffler

Yes, he made a mistake and Arteezy capitalized on it. The mistake was that he got creep aggro as he retreated which removed his last two Refraction charges and Arteezy instantly lifted him. It just shows great understanding of the X vs TA matchup. Arteezy has full control of when DF doesn't have Refraction left. Notice how he checks DF like 5 seconds before for his mana and sees he only has like 90 mana left. I don't know any player that checks opponents mana and items as often as Arteezy does. But it's not just about the mistake at level 6. Everything leading up to that was just domination. Last hitting, lane cotnrol, double waving, rune control etc. I for sure didn't see the lift at level 3 coming. And I for sure wasn't thinking "TA is dead" as TA went on Arteezy at level 6.

[Deleted]

Oh im not denying he didn't play really well mid, i'm just saying the at level 6 that particular movement seems very noobish for such an experienced player.

I mean he was crushing him mid anyway the kill was just a bonus really.

[PizzaSHARK]

@PraisetheSun

This is why I once said Arteezy is better than DF when it comes to laning mechanics. His lane control and aggro control is just insane when he actually tries.
http://www.twitch.tv/arteezy/b/573790388?t=1h51m20s

He solo killed DF at level 6 but he could have solo killed DF at lvl 3 if he didn't fuck up his lift. Not every day you see a Rubick beat a TA mid in terms of CS and killing her too.

Shitty TA, or maybe shitty teammates for TA. Seemed like panda was taking all of the runes and not really doing a goddamned thing with them (lol panda with haste rune can't kill jakiro.) Panda running up to rubick with unbroken tranquils (lol, tranquils on panda) when rubick has no boots at all and somehow missing stomp was just sad. Saw a few times when TA had an empty bottle and no health/mana because someone was taking her runes, was rubick's team controlling runes or was TA's team just dumb?

Not sure how TA gets outlaned by Rubick to begin with though. Rubick was very good with autoswing harass but there's still no way TA should've been behind on last hits like that. TA's death at lvl 6 was just plain stupidity, apparently didn't pay attention and realize Rubick stole Refraction. TA also tanked some tower hits around lvl 3 (this was before the failed lvl 3 attempt on TA) for no reason.

Just really sloppy play by TA and/or TA's team and very tight play by Rubick.

- - - Updated - - -

FWIW I also think the bottlecrowing nerf hurt DF a lot. Watching him lately, his decision-making WRT runes has seemed spotty at best now that he's actually forced to go for them.

Makes it easy to find the good mid players versus the mid players that were being carried by an extremely overpowered mechanic.

[Deleted]

Makes it easy to find the good mid players versus the mid players that were being carried by an extremely overpowered mechanic.

Well we can speculate about that, people just do what they think is best for them winning their lanes, and who (at least from pros / well known mid players) hasn't bottle crowed. It may be just a that he is not accustomed to the new playstyle yet.

I for one love the rune changes because I get bottle on so many heroes mid and almost everytime I play offlane as well. We usually alert ourselves when rune is about to spawn and jungler / support goes to check the other rune which their offlaner rarely contests.

By the way, I haven't seen it when I read through the patch notes, but blink dagger was actually nerfed quite a bit. I thought that the 100 gold is no real nerf, but with the changes to hp removal effects urn damage now cancels blink. Time to build urn of shadows more I guess.

[PizzaSHARK]

Well we can speculate about that, people just do what they think is best for them winning their lanes, and who (at least from pros / well known mid players) hasn't bottle crowed. It may be just a that he is not accustomed to the new playstyle yet.

I for one love the rune changes because I get bottle on so many heroes mid and almost everytime I play offlane as well. We usually alert ourselves when rune is about to spawn and jungler / support goes to check the other rune which their offlaner rarely contests.

Possible. I'm annoyed it took so long to nerf bottlecrow properly, but I guess we'll see how things shake up. I do like the additional rune, which should mostly guarantee more teams spending time contesting runes, since mids will almost certainly be going for runes instead of just afking in lane and bottlecrowing. Have there been more courier deaths since the patch in pro games?

By the way, I haven't seen it when I read through the patch notes, but blink dagger was actually nerfed quite a bit. I thought that the 100 gold is no real nerf, but with the changes to hp removal effects urn damage now cancels blink. Time to build urn of shadows more I guess.

Hadn't considered that, but you're right. What about stuff like Heartstopper Aura? Does that break blink daggers now, too?

[Deleted]

Shitty TA, or maybe shitty teammates for TA. Seemed like panda was taking all of the runes and not really doing a goddamned thing with them (lol panda with haste rune can't kill jakiro.) Panda running up to rubick with unbroken tranquils (lol, tranquils on panda) when rubick has no boots at all and somehow missing stomp was just sad. Saw a few times when TA had an empty bottle and no health/mana because someone was taking her runes, was rubick's team controlling runes or was TA's team just dumb?

Not sure how TA gets outlaned by Rubick to begin with though. Rubick was very good with autoswing harass but there's still no way TA should've been behind on last hits like that. TA's death at lvl 6 was just plain stupidity, apparently didn't pay attention and realize Rubick stole Refraction. TA also tanked some tower hits around lvl 3 (this was before the failed lvl 3 attempt on TA) for no reason.

Just really sloppy play by TA and/or TA's team and very tight play by Rubick.

Makes it easy to find the good mid players versus the mid players that were being carried by an extremely overpowered mechanic.

If one of the best TA's in the world is a shitty TA then sure, it was a shitty TA. TA had no rune control because Rubick was controlling top rune while his supports were controlling bot rune and his lane was constantly pushed so TA would have had to sacrifice a lot to go for bot rune anyway and that was a result of great laning by Rubick. Panda hit the stomp... It ended up just being some harass on the Rubick. It started out with a try to kill the Rubick and he would have died if he had reacted slower and got stomped earlier. It was an offlane Panda so Tranquils make sense I think.

Not sure how he lost? He got outplayed by Arteezy. Arteezy just played better that game. Just watch the clip. He got double waved, had to last hit under tower, Rubick had great aggro tricks which allowed him to harass without getting harassed himself and the creep control was never in TA's favor. Along with that Rubick dodged Psi Blades quite well by manipulating creeps to constantly move which fucked up TA's Psi Blade angles. Notice also how the Rubick doesn't miss many CS under tower by using proper aggro tricks.

When did TA tank tower hits at level 3? Are we watching the same clip here? You are seeing things I don't.

Of course TA didn't play well, else he'd win the lane. But I'd say extremely few players in the same situation would have won as Rubick against DF in that game.

I also find it hilarious that you guys say DF relies on Bottle Crowing more than others. He was one of the guys that didn't bottle crow a lot. I've watched his games pre-6.82 and he rushed Bottle every game and got it at around 1 min but never bottle crowed before 2 min rune but just waited for rune and took it by pushing out wave. Had it been RTZ he would have bottle crowed once and probably even ignored the rune and crowed again. DF is one of those guys that values runes more than most mids so I don't even know how you guys are saying he relied on bottle crowing. Are we watching the same player here?

[Noorri]

Hadn't considered that, but you're right. What about stuff like Heartstopper Aura? Does that break blink daggers now, too?

Damage cancels Blink Dagger, Heartstopper Aura is negative health regeneration. It doesn't cancel Blink Daggers.

[Lysah]

I don't know any player that checks opponents mana and items as often as Arteezy does.

How often do you check enemy heroes? I'm honestly surprised by this statement, I assumed this was something every moderately high MMR player did constantly. I probably have my focus on enemy heroes more than my own hero in any given game - actually, this was one of the best additions to Dota2. In DotA, you had to swap back to your hero with hotkeys and constantly clicking on enemies left you slightly vulnerable and unable to immediately give your hero actions. Can't overstate how nice it is to have selected an enemy hero to look at his mana, need to dodge something or juke and be able to just right click the ground without having to reselect my own hero first.

I'm still surprised TA would lose to Rubick in 1v1, simply because of the sheer difference in their auto attack power. Not sure how TA lets Rubick get a single last hit. Sure, he can harass you, just tank it and buy some regen, that's exactly what refraction spam and bottle are used for. Maybe I'll actually watch that VoD to see, sounds like either godly play or godly bad play from somebody. Only thing I can see Rubick doing is pulling creep aggro right as TA goes to last hit to screw up their positioning, and if he can pull that off reliably he could massively mess with TA's farming capability because of her short range, however, TA can just easily pull creep aggro back and it's her fault if she doesn't.

[Deleted]

How often do you check enemy heroes? I'm honestly surprised by this statement, I assumed this was something every moderately high MMR player did constantly.

It's a relative statement. I'm really lazy with checking items but I was more talking about the laning stage and I've never seen anyone check as frequent and as well as Arteezy does.

[Lysah]

That's like the only time checking matters
When people have 1400 mana they're probably not hurting for it anymore.

[Deleted]

That's like the only time checking matters
When people have 1400 mana they're probably not hurting for it anymore.

It's more items. But yeah, it was still a relative statement. Aren't you a safe laner by the way? It rarely matters there.

[EqualWin]

imo in early game you dont check for items only ( regen or if he has boots or not) you should check thier mana mostly and learn (if u dont know ) his spell mana cost, then you know what he/she can do.. that's what I do at least, check the enemy hero mana a lot, also u see their items at the same time

[Deleted]

imo in early game you dont check for items only ( regen or if he has boots or not) you should check thier mana mostly and learn (if u dont know ) his spell mana cost, then you know what he/she can do.. that's what I do at least, check the enemy hero mana a lot, also u see their items at the same time

It's more about checking items after the laning I meant...

[Lysah]

It's more items. But yeah, it was still a relative statement. Aren't you a safe laner by the way? It rarely matters there.

Good question. I suppose I should be as I don't really enjoy mid and I hate offlane unless I have a very good partner, though I usually go wherever I think will net me the greatest chance of winning. I do check enemy items constantly through a game as well, although a lot of that is to help my team since I know they are oblivious and won't see the gem/BKB/whatever that could ruin a team fight.

I wind up in safe lane more often than not as I've found in my experience that the vast majority of players simply have no idea how to farm. Simple tactics like freezing a lane near a tier 2, stacking/jungling while pushing the lane out, and most importantly staying the bloody hell away from team fights you can't win are totally lost on the majority of the community.

[EqualWin]

I find carry worse than mid and offlane, if you pick a real carry ( AM?) you need support helps to farm the lane which isn't always there. I've been enjoying offlane a lot lately.. supports at best try to harras you but still you get free exp and at the second they roam/try to jungle, you annoy/kill their carry. bonus people barely know how to play agaisn't bat or clinkz

[veiledy0]

Offlane is more enjoyable than mid in low-medium mmr pubs, because dogs don't spam the shit out of you with "omg invoker no gank / random russian blabber", so you don't have to mute half of your team. And any mid player can easily rape the offlane anyways, because supports don't do shit 9/10 games.