[Megathread] DotA 2

[Lysah]

it was random matchmaking game how you can tell if players are any good and considering picks (shaker solo short lane ???) im not surprised that you won

That was a different game.

[Qhara]

I remember back then were Na'ix(Lifestealer) avatar ult is just plain broken. Only one descent enough to kill him is Spirit breaker.

Aegis was still a normal/buyable item.

Oh yah, Dagon on Lion/Lina FB fun.. Ah! those days.

I left DotA when Mirana was 1st released. Yeah, it's been a while.

[Hermanni]

If you're looking to learn of find out more about Dota 2 one of the best resources is reddit.com/r/dota2, especially the sidebar on the right hand side. One of the better guides is Purgegamer's Welcome to Dota, You Suck.

[bigjenk]

Until you get someone like Alchemist, who has crap scaling with all stats?

Sidenote, Xypherous had a very long discussion about zero gold support. In a way, I'm a bit saddened to see the same in DotA2, where one person basically donates their all to improve the effectiveness of the others.

Zero gold support basically doesn't exist as even a cm or vs should be pulling, killing easy camp when they can so they can keep up wards and counter wards.

---------- Post added 2012-03-16 at 08:27 PM ----------

it was random matchmaking game how you can tell if players are any good and considering picks (shaker solo short lane ???) im not surprised that you won

Dota 1 was easy to get high win rates since mm systems were complete shit outside of vouch ih leagues.

[Duilliath]

Yea, seems like the role of a support is much more involved in DotA2. Do they engage in denying too?

[Kurdiern]

Yea, seems like the role of a support is much more involved in DotA2. Do they engage in denying too?

When they aren't pulling or harassing it's beneficial, carry can focus on last hits instead.

[Duilliath]

Cool. Makes sense.

[Hermanni]

Yea, seems like the role of a support is much more involved in DotA2. Do they engage in denying too?

I happen to play support a lot so I'll try to explain it briefly while I'm at it. Where you are and what you do depends a lot on the game itself, and even you'll often find yourself laning with a carry or semicarry/utility, you might also be seen running a trilane (3-man lane), jungle or even a solo lane in the early game. Sometimes you might not go into a lane at all in the beginning of the game but try and roam the map and set up early ganks or at the very least force your enemies to play defensive. This game from a while back shows early roaming strategy pulled off successfully by EG.

For example you might find yourself running a 2v1 safe lane with a carry against enemy solo hero. While your carry focuses on farming, your job is to focus on minimizing the experience and gold gain of your adversary, maintaining lane control, keeping your carry safe and setting up ganks when possible. You achieve this often either by harassing or threatening the enemy hero away from the creeps or by "pulling" your creep waves into neutrals camps or making the neutrals kill them and effectively deny the entire creepwave. When running a lane like this you'll want to spend most of the time out of sight which means your enemy can't know where you are and they will have to play defensively or risk being caught by you if you circle behind them. Also by staying out of sight you force your enemies on other lanes to play it safe as well in case you rotate to gank their lanes instead (which is also something you can do, especially when your carry doesn't really need you.) Few other things you might be doing would be securing rune spawns, warding and counterwarding and carrying a Teleport scroll so you can assist other lanes if they need your help.

But that's just one way to play, and it often depends on what heroes are on your lane and what kind of lane you're running. If it's 2v2 or 2v~3 lane you'll want to spend more time actively playing the lane and responding to enemy agression and helping your lanemate(s) if they get initiated on. On some heroes that require certain items to function well you might get to delegate the supporting jobs to other heroes until you're set (usually this means getting a Blink Dagger.)

When supporting you'll usually have to let most of farm go to other heroes and spend some of your income on helping the team, but it's usually okay because the heroes generally played as supports can perform their job rather item-independently and can be very effective early game even without any levels or gold. This doesn't mean you can't get any good items, but you'll have to try to not get them at the expense of your team. Generally supporting is more of a job than a role you just pick a hero for, and sometimes you might find yourself doing supportive stuff on rather unusual heroes (Like Puppey's jungling support Storm Spirit) or getting big on a hero that's usually played as a support. Supporting generally means aiming to obtain lane-and mapcontrol, items useful for your team such as Mekansm (Activable AoE heal), and setting up ganks and pushes at your own expense for the benefit of your team.

[Freezymcgee]

Aegis was still a normal/buyable item.

ah the good ol'days of everyone on the team having an aegis because of how powerful it was

[Lysah]

Honestly, the lane phase in DotA lasts all of five minutes. A support's job is not really defined by this period of time, unlike in LoL. They are more intended to roam for map control/ganks/rune control and ward. For this reason, almost any hero can be a support, which is why the term "babysitter" is commonly used to refer to heroes that specifically stay in lane to help carry the carry, in a sense.

Writing a lengthy post on the role of support when you're telling LoL players what they already know seems kind of silly =p

Support in DotA means doing whatever you can to help the carry do is his job. If he got counter picked you buy items to counter their counter (sheeper, orchid, shivas, even dagon in some cases). If he has a weak early game, you babysit in him in lane until he gets strong. If he can handle himself but needs time to farm, you roam and gank to put pressure on their team to group and leave him alone.

Being a good support in DotA means knowing what your team actually NEEDS. Too many people think wards + mekanism = support, and they will lose half of the games they play because of it.

[ButterToast]

If its more rewarding than LoL is and doesnt require 15 hours of play time
Assuming :
Every match took 30 minutes
Every match is a win and gave 200 points (actually less)
The champion i want to buy costs 6300 points. (and alot of them are actually OLD champions and still cost 6300)

Then yeah ill play it over LoL anytime.

[Deleted]

Some people said that DotA is basically the game it was 10years ago now just with a new graphic engine. Well that is just wrong. There is a major update every 6 months or so (lately less frequent because IceFrog is prolly busy with Dota 2) and the meta game changes a lot, not only because of the updates but also because new teams use new strategies. When you look back at the last 5-6 years the game has changed significantly. Anyone remember back when dagger didn't get disabled and 3-4 heroes in a team got dagger? Or when everyone was buying Aegis? When Vigoss quit because he said the game was changing from ganking to farming? Then there is reliable gold and smoke now which resulted in more ganks. Starting last summer with the international the meta game shifted towards Furi, NS, Viper, AA, AM and a very agressive playstyle because Navi used this to win the tournament. The latest change is a push heavy meta game usually using Lesh, Veno, Chen, Ench, etc. DotA is constantly changing. The competetive scene is very complex and interesting.

Regarding the people who say that they don't like Dota 2 being a copy of DotA: DotA is much like Broodwar considered the superior and more difficult game than Dota 2 / SC 2. Especially the chinese and many other asian pro players think so. I have been playing DotA since 2006 and I just love the game and I hopy that Dota 2 is as close to DotA as possible, because the feeling of playing DotA is as good as it gets imo, the only problem is the wc3 engine restricting DotA. Reconnect, DotaTV, Matchmaking, etc are necessary for DotA to become a better eSport.

[Deleted]

League feels a lot easier to pick up and play to be honest. Whenever i go into a solo Dota game i get raged at for random stuff and if they catch a LoL player the community is VERY hostile. I accidently say "champion" and people pounce on with elitist comments about how platinum in league is like the bronze of dota and so forth. Very hard to play without a friend.

Not sure if it's because i'm new to the game but i often find teammates feeding and pretty much losing the game from the start. There is also no surrender so sometimes you have enemies deliberately farming you for kills not ending the game.

At times it gets very frustrating but it's a very fun game.

I don't want to choose. That was the reason why my first week i hated on it. I invested so much time in League and if i pick Dota i will be throwing all that away. It's super complicated >.>

Also:

Dota has no smart casting and it's very close to an RTS in the sense that champions are kind of slow. So in terms of clutch-skill and on the spot decision making League is leagues ahead. Dota usually has this one strategy you make up and follow as closely as you can. So think a more RTS-like LoL.

that's not AT ALL how ANY rts works. or you're playing against an easy AI or your opponent is afk.

[Kurdiern]

@ Pierakor The game is the same, the meta just changes alot more than in LoL because Icefrog will push for changes & teams are more interested in trying out new picks. Technically it's still the same map, champs, items, etc...

@ Thigrai DotA is very venomous towards LoL players, that much is true. While ocassionally I'll find someone who went form LoL/HoN to DotA, most people who play are just DotA. I've found the community to not be that bad though. You also can just play both. I still paly LoL with my friend who isn't in DotA.

Smart-casting will be implemented but the feeling of slowness is just turn speed. Champions turn on a dime in LoLm no delay, but in DotA2 there is noticeable turn speed. Just another element to add.

Clutch-Skill / Decision making I argue DotA is ahead. Many more usable items & interesting abilities, turn-sped just makes it a little more difficult to pull off sometimes. For example, skip to 39:31 in this replay. Absolute amazing play by Dendi when the enemy team chooses to ignore him to go for the low health Nature's Prophet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPCVU...4&feature=plcp

[Finear]

[Duilliath]

I watched it a bit, but found it really hard to figure out what is going on when you don't know the heroes and their abilities.

[Kuthe]

Dota - Tanks get maybe 3k hp if they have been fed heaps! Usually around 2k normally. Hard to kill, mainly due to regen, but possible.
LoL - tanks have 6k hp, impossible to kill.

Dota - No AP/AD, no having one ability dealing 1k damage every 3 seconds.
The most powerful ultimates deal 800hp, and thats every 2 minutes, and with a special item.
Average spells deal 400hp, and certain ones can be avoided.
Lots of damage comes from Autoattacks.
Normal champions have around 1.5k hp.


Game is balanced.


That's the main difference.
The whole HP/Ability damages, etc.

Dota is harder to play, but I believe more fun.

Though when it officially comes out, it's going to be crowded with the same useless 12 year olds that ruined post-beta LoL.
That's the best thing about Dota1, it was on Warcraft3, a game kids don't know of, so they don't all claim to be pro and rage at everyone.

[Agent Mercury]

I realise this is the LoL forums, but I figured that since I saw a bunch of people mention it already in the various threads here, we might as well put it in one consolidated thread. Had a quick look in the regular video games forum, but didn't see anything there.

So... why should I play DotA2 over LoL? What's its advantages? Where's the fun part (as in, more fun than HoN/LoL)? Anything else you want to share?


Kindly keep the discussion friendly. I realise there will be comparisons, but there's no need to start name-calling.

Because they are different games. This is DOTA2 and it is actually that. Just an updated version of DoTA which LoL is not. They are both AoS games but very different in play. So if you preferred Dota but wanted a more streamlined UI and new graphics go for Dota 2...if you like the playstyle of LoL (Don't have to worry about deny gives more time to focus on harass etc.) then stick with that.

---------- Post added 2012-03-18 at 10:05 AM ----------

Interesting. That does seem like an odd mechanic to me as a non-DOTA player.

Well just thinking about it it is a silly premise. Doesn't make you any more skilled and you wouldn't destroy your own soldiers or defenses even to deny them *xp/gold*.

My 2 cents.

---------- Post added 2012-03-18 at 10:09 AM ----------

Dota - Tanks get maybe 3k hp if they have been fed heaps! Usually around 2k normally. Hard to kill, mainly due to regen, but possible.
LoL - tanks have 6k hp, impossible to kill.

Dota - No AP/AD, no having one ability dealing 1k damage every 3 seconds.
The most powerful ultimates deal 800hp, and thats every 2 minutes, and with a special item.
Average spells deal 400hp, and certain ones can be avoided.
Lots of damage comes from Autoattacks.
Normal champions have around 1.5k hp.


Game is balanced.


That's the main difference.
The whole HP/Ability damages, etc.

Dota is harder to play, but I believe more fun.

Though when it officially comes out, it's going to be crowded with the same useless 12 year olds that ruined post-beta LoL.
That's the best thing about Dota1, it was on Warcraft3, a game kids don't know of, so they don't all claim to be pro and rage at everyone.

Uh there was plenty of that in War3. Maybe not anymore but when War3 was newer, yes.

As far as that goes LoL isn't un-balanced. And tanks are definitely not impossible to kill they are just last on your priority list.

I haven't played the new DoTA2 much but your making it seem far less enjoyable when even my casters have to rely on Auto-Attack to get a champion down. Also seems less skillful to have to rely on that instead of a skill loadout.

[IMonstrousI]

I think Ill quote TB on this one: "League of Legends has a learning curve. Dota 2 has a learning cliff."

[Lysah]

I think Ill quote TB on this one: "League of Legends has a learning curve. Dota 2 has a learning cliff."

There are people I've played with for ten years who still don't understand the most simple of concepts in DotA, I think I'll agree to this.

Also, the DotA community is easily the worst. I've seen LoL and HoN, they're both full of peace loving hippies as far as I'm concerned. DotA 1 is NOT any better than DotA 2, if you think so it's because you haven't played in public leagues where the real "community" is at. Random matching DotA1 or DotA2 and you're virtually guaranteed to have at least one troll on your team every game, you will be flamed from level 1 no matter what you do. Go 10-0, you're flamed for being in the wrong lane, for not warding, for not counter warding, for stealing farm even if you're not even attacking, the list goes on. I have never seen a group of people with a bigger list of excuses for their own failure.