1. #17761
    So what do people here think about Spectre+MoM anyhow? I forgot what game it was I saw it, but it seemed like an interesting build. Tried it in a few pubs, it seemed to do a lot towards making you pretty scary early on with Desolate.

  2. #17762
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    6.84 is allegedly going to arrive after Starladder ends. I'll probably throw things if blink dagger doesn't get nerfed :-/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  3. #17763
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    It's probably characters that benefit from blink dagger will be nerfed

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I imagine that the Dota player base probably has more played time with Hero within an hour of a patch than a team of testers could manage with a year of testing. You could get a lot more feedback a lot faster with small changes than you probably ever could with a testing team. You also have to consider the skill level of the testers too, some heroes require a lot more time to get at least competent with. Finally, testing out changes for a Hero they're not at all familiar with is going result in poor feedback.

    Releasing small regular changes probably generates more useful feedback for Devs than any other method. Unfortunately it does make the game feel very much like its in a constant state of beta. It's a no-win situation.

    As things stand at the moment I think they like going overboard with both buffs and nerfs to intentionally shake things up. Its almost a fail safe way to make sure that a hero previously underplayed in Pro matches ends up being picked while the previous round of strong picks vanish almost entirely from the scene until its time for them to get buffed again.
    Yeah, that's good way to get statistics (win rate, build paths, power spikes and stuff) but it has its downsides and statistics is not only criteria for balancing heroes, i just think that dota devs do not want this public approach to balancing their game, and i personally see no issues here.

    I think we put different meaning in "feedback", small regular changes work fine with statistics, but statistic is a huge lie (in LoL, any nerfed character drops in popularity even if nerf was justified or unnoticable), feedback of sorts like long-well-made-posts-about-character-i-always-loved-but-now-you-ruined-it doesn't help much either, it's just public opinion. While having people (say, three hundreds) daily working with numerous amount of patches on heroes that have to make reports on how every change affected gameplay (say, you see 50% increase in powershot range in changelog, but when they were working on patch, the tested all ranges fron 1% to 100% increase and made in clear that 50% increase suits their goals better, we can't see that and (even if i want to) we shouldn't because it would "force" devs to cater to public pressure)

    And you are right, they love to shake everything up, there is buffs like 25 to 14 CD on Centaurs double edge, there is also buffs like +10 damage on Searing arrows of Clinkz, nerfs like -0,4 int gain on Tini, and -300 death coil range on Abba.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  4. #17764
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    It's probably characters that benefit from blink dagger will be nerfed
    So, all of them? The game has definitely degenerated to some degree. People get blink on Sniper so that they can't be caught out, and people get blink on Troll so that they can jump on blink dagger Snipers. It's become a game where everyone gets blink to escape everyone and everyone else gets blink to catch everyone in the first place.

  5. #17765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    So, all of them? The game has definitely degenerated to some degree. People get blink on Sniper so that they can't be caught out, and people get blink on Troll so that they can jump on blink dagger Snipers. It's become a game where everyone gets blink to escape everyone and everyone else gets blink to catch everyone in the first place.
    Pretty much. It really is funny if you look at people discussing item builds/skill builds etc for heroes, blink dagger always comes up like that. "You need blink to position because Lion has blink to instahex you and sniper has blink to get away from your blink and you need to blink so you can blink to stop their blink before they can blink and..."

    I'd think that should be a sign there's something wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    (in LoL, any nerfed character drops in popularity even if nerf was justified or unnoticable)
    Happens all the time here. How many times have we seen characters become popular because they got, like, +2 STR starting (omg, hero was shit before, but now that they have 38 more starting HP, they're totally pro stfu nab they were shit b4) or suddenly disappear because they lost 3 base damage? It's almost like the perception of nerfed/buffed matters more than the actual nerf or buff.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  6. #17766
    Blink dagger is my primary reason for enjoying Storm Spirit mid- and lategame. Ruined so many initiations just balling through them. Although it really feels like Dota 2 has just become "initiate before they can blink", and it really feels like Blink Dagger has little real counterplay. If you can't hurt them for the next 3 seconds they're gone.

  7. #17767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    Blink dagger is my primary reason for enjoying Storm Spirit mid- and lategame. Ruined so many initiations just balling through them. Although it really feels like Dota 2 has just become "initiate before they can blink", and it really feels like Blink Dagger has little real counterplay. If you can't hurt them for the next 3 seconds they're gone.
    Wouldn't mind blink dagger's cooldown being reset entirely if you take damage from heroes or towers. Make it clearly a mobility or initiation item, not a get out of jail free card.

    That'd be a substantial nerf to Puck, though :-/
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  8. #17768
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Wouldn't mind blink dagger's cooldown being reset entirely if you take damage from heroes or towers. Make it clearly a mobility or initiation item, not a get out of jail free card.

    That'd be a substantial nerf to Puck, though :-/
    Oh no, a hero with a make-a-choice ability to either do damage, initiate fight or escape losing a free get-out-of-jail card via blink dagger nerf, now he will have to make actual choice and not yolo in fights and get away with it. The her ois ruined
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  9. #17769
    I'd argue for a nerf to the CD of Blink Dagger itself perhaps. A 12 second cooldown is pretty much nothing, very often enabling not just initiation for the fight but also an easy means of exiting it. Something I see a lot is players engaging into a short fight with blink, then back off and just blink out again. Worse yet, the reverse often happens as well, with a hero fleeing from the scene using blink, only to be able to re-initiate very shortly after.

    The fact that the cooldown is short enough to be able to do that is pretty nasty.

  10. #17770
    I'd say Dota2 issues are very similar to what was in WoW, both in PVE and PVP.

    The moment melee heroes have enough mobility due to ability to OUTRUN or outinnitiate range heroes, the range heroes will fall down in pick popularity.
    Take a troll as example, having base run speed in melee form at about 460+ while most range heroes are at most 350 - this is huge.
    If you ever wondered what does the number stands for, merlini explained it nicely on YT. For every unit, you move for that unit distance in 1 sec.

    That basicly means that troll needs at most 2-3 sec to catch a slower hero. Add to that any disables, slows and you are pretty much screwed, becouse range heroes have only the edge if they can stay at range. The same is true for e.x jugg , his ulti cast range nerf didnt do almost anything. Why? That hero is to fu*** fast, not to mention the bug when if the other hero is running away, the actual cast range is still ~800...
    Above also is an issue for range heroes when a melee hero outrun them, becouse they CANT do any dmg or it take opposing hero 1 sec to get out of their range. Orb walking is not enough in this case.

    Regardless of blink dagger, either they rethink run speed model per hero (especially troll/jug), adjust items accordingly aswell, I see the problems not gonna get better anytime soon.
    Other thing is hero attack range. Look how good is sniper and Lina. They have 200+ attack range atm than most range heroes.

    It is very complex, and needs very sophisticated thinkin and work around. Lets see how icefraud work it out.

    Here is jugg Omnislash bug http://gfycat.com/OptimisticCraftyAztecant
    - Regardless where the issue lies, network, engine, it is still F****

    http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen...sh_range_nerf/

    Similar issue https://gfycat.com/HandyFluidGalah

    It still amaze me, how Valve is behind on network mechanics. It is all the same since Counter-strike ... Basicly ~20 years of the same network mechanism/engine...
    Last edited by Sorcereria; 2015-04-18 at 12:57 PM.

  11. #17771
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    It seems for me that at some point devs forgot about turning mechanic, they could utilize it to make melee heroes better at fighting or standing off ranged heroes, but no, lets just fuck everything up by throwing blinks and extra MS on melee
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  12. #17772
    Is maxing both Luna's passives and leveling stats actually like, legit in any way? I had a Luna yesterday do that, completely ignored leveling her stun until like, level 15, and never went into her ult.

    Ended up being a 3 stack blaming everyone else (Me as TA and a Medusa), but still.

  13. #17773
    Luna's ult is the only reason to pick her.

  14. #17774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Luna's ult is the only reason to pick her.
    I thought her survivability was the only reason to pick her.

  15. #17775
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Is maxing both Luna's passives and leveling stats actually like, legit in any way? I had a Luna yesterday do that, completely ignored leveling her stun until like, level 15, and never went into her ult.

    Ended up being a 3 stack blaming everyone else (Me as TA and a Medusa), but still.
    You could maybe make a case for taking 1 point in Lunar Blessing and then leaving it in favour of stats, but even that would be a stretch. Lucent Beam on the other hand is the only reason she has any real presence in lane early game, and her ult is guaranteed kills for her post level 6 and as always is strong in a team fight, so skipping them both is, for lack of better phrasing, bloody stupid.

  16. #17776
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    You could maybe make a case for taking 1 point in Lunar Blessing and then leaving it in favour of stats, but even that would be a stretch. Lucent Beam on the other hand is the only reason she has any real presence in lane early game, and her ult is guaranteed kills for her post level 6 and as always is strong in a team fight, so skipping them both is, for lack of better phrasing, bloody stupid.
    Skipping extra points in aura for stats is usually much better.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  17. #17777
    Alright, so it was probably just someone trying to play around with a different build I guess.

    I was just caught off guard because they were complaining about no ganks (Or successful ones) while having no stun.

  18. #17778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Alright, so it was probably just someone trying to play around with a different build I guess.

    I was just caught off guard because they were complaining about no ganks (Or successful ones) while having no stun.
    Was this person South American?
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  19. #17779
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Was this person South American?
    I have no idea, but they made sure to fully update me on how much I suck on a scale from one to ten because I took mid from them or something.

    I know I suck already, I don't need reminders! I was just curious if I missed some like, new meta Luna, since I do actually like Luna.

  20. #17780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I have no idea, but they made sure to fully update me on how much I suck on a scale from one to ten because I took mid from them or something.

    I know I suck already, I don't need reminders! I was just curious if I missed some like, new meta Luna, since I do actually like Luna.
    I kinda/sorta miss seeing Luna in games. I feel like they should give her a huge turnrate boost so she can kite effectively or something. No point to having 330 ms if your attack animation and turn rate are slow enough to let CM juke you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    God Storm Spirit just needs to be automatically banned in every single game. Hero is broken at a fundamental level. Once you have a couple basic items like Soul Ring+Bottle, zip doesn't have a significant mana cost. And even if you get shut out of lane, you can just go with a max Q build and use its efficient damage to blow up some creep camps until you have those simple items and then faceroll some kills and snowball out of control like SumaiL did in that one game.

    I don't know what to do about it either. Increase zip mana cost? But the problem is that items invalidate it quickly no matter what you do. You could make it cost a ton of mana but then Storm Spirit is broken in the other direction and will never be seen again. Almost like it needs exponentially increasing cost the farther you zip, so that zipping more than like 800 units either requires an obscene amount of MP/regen or you're accepting that you'll be OOM and unable to fight when you do arrive.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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