[Megathread] DotA 2

[Morally Grey Storm]

Why not rush aghs on luna as usual , but with a glimmer cape equipped teammate.?
Oh, nvm, agh laguna is pure damage...

[Deleted]

Not a fan of Aghs luna, would rather helm and yasha, farm like crazy and pick up bkb and mkb and just glavies the team to death.

[PizzaSHARK]

Not a fan of Aghs luna, would rather helm and yasha, farm like crazy and pick up bkb and mkb and just glavies the team to death.

Yeah but the issue is there are a lot of heroes that can afk farm like that, be done farming more quickly, and be a lot more dangerous to boot. Luna's just really shitty right now. Agh's rush just makes her less shitty.

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They were, for a time. And ti4 is proof that no team wins just by being better in the LANs leading up to the the major.

@aghs luna
People say this is bad because Luna is bad right now. Aghs Lina buff kind of removed Luna from the game. Lina can rush euls aghs just as fast as Luna can rush a BKB, at which point Lina's aghs made Luna's BKB worthless and she's guaranteed dead 2 seconds into every fight the whole game. I rushed aghs on Luna before it even got buffed, it was always a decent item for her, but the last patch really nerfed Luna in a ton of indirect ways.

Lina just needs to be nerfed really hard. Agh's upgrade alone was a massive buff for her, then they kept buffing her anyway because breaking the game is how they balance it. Eul's is also massively overpowered and hasn't received any sort of significant nerf. If even a hero like Shadow Fiend can still feasibly use Eul's without too much trouble, you know the item is still too strong, much less when it's used on heroes with decent mana pools (like INT heroes.)

If anything, they need to be nerfing items and not heroes. So many heroes are more or less okay (and this includes Lina) until they get a specific item or two, and then they just laugh at the concept of a balanced game because suddenly all of the balancing factors for them get thrown out the window.

[Drunkenvalley]

Should probably cut the duration of the Eul's cyclone first and foremost... the fact that it is seemingly really easy to time it for most heroes is worrying. Examples being Lina stun and SF ult.

[Sorcereria]

ROTFL !!!

Steam support:
You have 2 cdkeys on your account, games X and Z.

This is where it gets funny. Becouse I do not have games X and Z. They are dumb becouse they follow my primary account not the account I listed for checking.
Dear god. Feels like kindergarden. Like... Facepalm.

I feel like writting a letter of complain to Gaben email. Adress I already got.

[Lysah]

They need to take everyone everywhere's advice and make the euls duration a random amount between 1.5 and 3.5 seconds or whatever. It should be primarily defensive, not used as a guaranteed setup.

[PizzaSHARK]

Should probably cut the duration of the Eul's cyclone first and foremost... the fact that it is seemingly really easy to time it for most heroes is worrying. Examples being Lina stun and SF ult.

Hence why I call it cheatstick. Buy Eul's and suddenly Light Strike Array, Split Earf, Requiem of Souls, etc require no setup and any reasonably skilled player will land 100% of their "skillshot" stuns. This is generally really really really OP because those spells are based around being difficult to hit - Light Strike Array has a ridiculous cooldown for its damage, AOE, and duration because it's assumed you won't reliably land it. Eul's makes it so that you'll always land it, resulting in Lina literally buying Eul's, pushing her Eul's button, and then instagibbing pretty much everyone short of Centy with eul's->LSA->ult->dragon slave.

Invoker can do the same with meatball+blast+ion cannon combos available as early as like lvl 7 or so. In both cases it's instant, unavoidable death that can be done as often as Eul's is off cooldown.

Eul's is almost literally cheating, it's that OP, even after the nerfs it received. I personally refuse to buy it on any hero now. You don't need it.

[RobertoCarlos]

I wouldnt go as far to say Euls is cheating. You know whats coming when you vs a lina or shadowfiend. I like to buy an euls myself and self cast it after their cast. Wastes their stun and hopefully you have a team that actually plays together and can follow up once both cyclones are done.

I think glimmer cape is worse.

[PizzaSHARK]

I wouldnt go as far to say Euls is cheating. You know whats coming when you vs a lina or shadowfiend. I like to buy an euls myself and self cast it after their cast. Wastes their stun and hopefully you have a team that actually plays together and can follow up once both cyclones are done.

I think glimmer cape is worse.

Yeah, but the thing is the game gets really fucking stupid when there are multiple Euls in use. I've seen pro games where teamfights are basically gold cyclones everywhere because there's no opportunity cost to using or buying Eul's and it's unquestionably the best item in nearly every situation you can think of.

Glimmer Cape is worse, but at least it's a new item and they can claim it's broken because it's new. Eul's has been around a long damn time. I feel like half the reason we see so much broken shit is just because it's taken this long for there to be enough good players and teams at the competitive level for it to become obvious for the people in charge.

A lot of this shit is obvious just playing pubs though, honestly.

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Slark should be banned from buying Lothar's. Item is completely gamebreaking when he has it due to interaction with his ult.

[Charge me Doctor]

They need to take everyone everywhere's advice and make the euls duration a random amount between 1.5 and 3.5 seconds or whatever. It should be primarily defensive, not used as a guaranteed setup.

It should have some sort of timer then, like on ODs imprisonment (expanding circle)

[Lysah]

It should have some sort of timer then, like on ODs imprisonment (expanding circle)

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose. The point is so the caster doesn't know when it's going to end so they can't land perfect stuns every time.

[Charge me Doctor]

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose. The point is so the caster doesn't know when it's going to end so they can't land perfect stuns every time.

Without it, this change defeats the purpose of the scepter - being a tool for free skillshots. It needs major overhaul if all of the sudden free skillshots became a problem.
If you want it to be simply a CC tool, then it should give far more than just 1,5-3,5 seconds, it should be about 4-6 seconds with big cooldown and mana cost.
If you want it to be defensive tool, then it should have really small duration with purge effect (1-2 seconds is more than enough, it shouldn't be 3+ seconds because you will be able to blink after defending with the scepter)

I think if the scepter will be nerfed and/or removed as a setup item, Lina and friends will get some sort of soft CC to make it easier to land their shit. I mean, Lesh got his fuck you slow for free stuns, why not everyone? Or skillshot particles will be less visible, like Kunkas' torrent. The only reason Lina exists as a reliable Hero right now is because of the scepter.

But there could be a compromise - the scepter could daze (AS and MS slow) its target after cyclone ends. It will allow enemy to use his force staff, maginablink, whatever, so landing a skillshot becomes easier when you get the scepter, not 100% accurate

[LiiLoSNK]

Give euls charges like diffusal

[RobertoCarlos]

Perhaps the problem is just the cost. Its too cheap for how much you get from it. The movement speed is nothing to snigger at either.

Perhaps if it required a mystic staff instead of staff of wizardry.

That way it gives more intell and wouldnt just be the go too item every time.

And it retains its function of helping out squishy supports when the other teams carries start sticking on you like glue.

*edit this option doesnt really address the key issue of lining up "skill shot" spells though. Heres a wacky thought, what if cyclone acted like a cyclone and the area they land is random. could be a certain distance and you get tossed around landing in any area in however big you programme the circle.

I agree with your sentiment pizzashark this isnt really a issue at pro level play but more your rag tag pub match.

[Crackleslap]

I like Lysah's idea with the variable timers. Seems most simple whilst euls still having it's use for the most part.

[StrawberryZebra]

I think the best thing they could do with Euls is make the cyclone self cast only, turn it into a cheap defensive item for supports. The only issue with nerfing Euls in any kind of way is that its just going to push people to buy Rod of Atos as a replacement. Atos isn't totally idiot proof like Euls but it does make landing skillshots far easier. Chances are we'll end up right back where we started, where Atos is the go-to item for Heroes with hard to land skill shots as an almost fail safe setup for them.

[Lysah]

I don't have a problem with Atos, you have a chance to glimmer cape or force staff or blink or teleport or any number of things. It also doesn't give Lina 480 movespeed for 2800g.

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Without it, this change defeats the purpose of the scepter - being a tool for free skillshots. It needs major overhaul if all of the sudden free skillshots became a problem.
If you want it to be simply a CC tool, then it should give far more than just 1,5-3,5 seconds, it should be about 4-6 seconds with big cooldown and mana cost.
If you want it to be defensive tool, then it should have really small duration with purge effect (1-2 seconds is more than enough, it shouldn't be 3+ seconds because you will be able to blink after defending with the scepter)

I think if the scepter will be nerfed and/or removed as a setup item, Lina and friends will get some sort of soft CC to make it easier to land their shit. I mean, Lesh got his fuck you slow for free stuns, why not everyone? Or skillshot particles will be less visible, like Kunkas' torrent. The only reason Lina exists as a reliable Hero right now is because of the scepter.

But there could be a compromise - the scepter could daze (AS and MS slow) its target after cyclone ends. It will allow enemy to use his force staff, maginablink, whatever, so landing a skillshot becomes easier when you get the scepter, not 100% accurate

Does Lina really need help landing her stun? Dragon Slave and Laguna Blade alone can almost kill any heroe from full health at level 7 with the addition of a couple of auto attacks (that she will fire pretty rapidly with her free hyperstones). None of the heroes that use Eul's as a cop out actually need it to be good heroes. Jakiro is perhaps the one exception, but ice path is very strong even if you can't guarantee it lands on people. The removal of Eul's just makes him more defensive and less of a set up. Add to heroes like Disruptor Lina Lesh and it becomes fairly close to game breaking. Not only is the cast time part of the balancing factor for these spells, but the range is. You can get hit by a Eul's from well outside the range of the setup moves of these heroes, Eul's effectively increases the cast range on their combo which is a huge part of the problem.

[Charge me Doctor]

Does Lina really need help landing her stun? Dragon Slave and Laguna Blade alone can almost kill any heroe from full health at level 7 with the addition of a couple of auto attacks (that she will fire pretty rapidly with her free hyperstones). None of the heroes that use Eul's as a cop out actually need it to be good heroes. Jakiro is perhaps the one exception, but ice path is very strong even if you can't guarantee it lands on people. The removal of Eul's just makes him more defensive and less of a set up. Add to heroes like Disruptor Lina Lesh and it becomes fairly close to game breaking. Not only is the cast time part of the balancing factor for these spells, but the range is. You can get hit by a Eul's from well outside the range of the setup moves of these heroes, Eul's effectively increases the cast range on their combo which is a huge part of the problem.

All right, but then randomizing CC duration won't do that much (outside of wrecking Lina to the ground with her unreliable stun she won't be picked again), and Lina (i believe) will get some sort of compensation for having the scepter removed from her item pool, because without the scepter it's fucking hard to land her stun. For some reason, Lesh got himself a slow to solve this issue but Lina didn't get one. Building the scepter is always better than building the rod of Atos for purpose of making skillshot CC more reliable, for lulz sake, building helm of dominator and snatching the-troll-with-a-net-spell will work better than the rod of Atos.

I agree that range on it is very stupid, even if you use it defensively you don't need that much of a range, and if you want to CC someone in behind - well, you have to move forwards and opponent should have at least chance of outplaying this item. I wouldn't mind if the scepters range would get cut.

And to answer your first question - yes, she needs her stun to be more reliable, just like Lesh did before he got his slow. Her casting a stun can be seen from very far, she either have to get Kunkka treatment (enemy doesn't see where her land is incoming and she doesn't turn around), or Lesh treatment (some sort of slow), or her stun to be rebalanced completely and any of this should happen in same patch where Eul's scepter is nerfed.

[Lysah]

Lina gets the help she needs from other heroes. Lina/Sven has been one of the strongest lanes in the game for years. And again, Dragon Slave got like a 30% damage boost and she has a pure damage dagon 6 with aghs, she does massive damage without her stun AND she also still has huge move and attack speed thanks to her passive. Saying she needs her stun is like saying QOP needs a stun to be viable. Just having massive damage is enough. I wouldn't be opposed to a LSA buff if Slave gets nerfed back down to 280 damage.

Really, though, they could just remove the movespeed buff on Eul's and it would probably be okay. My biggest complaint with the item is that after Lina blows someone up with 360 noscope skills, she jets away at near max movespeed from euls and her passive and you can't punish her for it.

[M1r4g3]

Idno i feel like euls is more situational than core on lina atm with glimmer cape/silver edge added, its really not hard to land stuns without it, though without euls she would be shit against heroes like storm with blinks n stuff.