1. #18801
    Fate's Edict shouldn't do a damn thing against Aghs Laguna unless I am understanding it incorrectly. In fact, it should BOOST pure damage so Aghs Lina will do a nice 1500 Laguna on someone Oracle tries to "save."

  2. #18802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Fate's Edict shouldn't do a damn thing against Aghs Laguna unless I am understanding it incorrectly. In fact, it should BOOST pure damage so Aghs Lina will do a nice 1500 Laguna on someone Oracle tries to "save."
    Yeah, I read that as False Promise, not Fate's Edict.
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    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
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  3. #18803
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Yeah, I read that as False Promise, not Fate's Edict.
    I don't think Oracle can out heal Lina combo to save someone with his ult.

  4. #18804
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    It usually depends on how much resist the target has and how much overkill damage we are talking about. From my experience, urn+mek is often enough for ally to run to safety. Also not sure about purifying flames, they do add damage, but it also heals for a lot AND the damage on ally does't drop an ally below 1 HP. So, if we are talking about someone at 1,5k health getting pooped on with 1,7k damage combo it's perfectly survivable with false promise+mek+purifying flames+urn.
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    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  5. #18805
    In any case
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1592011931
    Yeah, euls and blink definitely don't need nerfs, totally fair items which is why you only see them situationally and not all the time on every single hero

  6. #18806
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    In any case
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1592011931
    Yeah, euls and blink definitely don't need nerfs, totally fair items which is why you only see them situationally and not all the time on every single hero
    Honestly, that looks like they were reading your posts here and decided to buy your most hated items at that point.

  7. #18807
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Honestly, that looks like they were reading your posts here and decided to buy your most hated items at that point.
    Pretty sure it's everyone's most hated items. I don't know a single person who thinks blink and eul's are remotely balanced. Some people are okay with them being overpowered as fuck, but I don't think I've had a serious discussion with anyone who thinks they're fair items. The fact that they're purchased in massive quantities in every single game is proof that their value is way above any other item. They're almost as guaranteed as boots are at this point.

    Fact remains that both of these items remove a huge amount of skill from the game. They let you cover your mistakes in ways no other item does so that having a bad game becomes impossible. There are literally 4 blink daggers minimum in every single game at my MMR. Eul's is slightly less popular, I'd say only 2 per game on average.



    At this point, the eul's/blink thing has become a veritable arms race. We just had an argument about Lina and you're trying to say "euls Lina isn't that good, X hero or Y item on an ally can save you when she goes for you." Okay, so now Lina isn't that good because when she uses Euls on your SF then your Oracle can just save him. Except, wait, let's give Lina a blink SK on her team and he ults and stuns oracle and SF both with burrowstrike. But you could get some other hero with some other item, and now I'll just add in a euls Leshrac to the equation, and a blink Magnus, and a Euls Jakiro, and the only way this ends is everyone buying euls and blink to counter everyone else's euls and blink.

    I mean, for fucks sake, we all already agreed that the best counter to euls is BUYING YOUR OWN EULS. And what's the best counter to blink dagger? Oh yeah, ALSO BUYING YOUR OWN BLINK DAGGER. These items are literally so valuable that the only way to play around them is to also buy them for yourself.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-06-29 at 04:49 AM.

  8. #18808
    No blink dagger would wreck some heroes. Are they well designed heroes? Well thats another discussion entirely.

  9. #18809
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    No blink dagger would wreck some heroes. Are they well designed heroes? Well thats another discussion entirely.
    No one's asking to remove the items, people are asking to make them take a bit of forethought and skill to use. Blink's break period needs to be twice as long, and the overall cooldown needs to probably go up by at least 50%. Eul's needs to lose the movespeed completely. Base movespeed is considered such an absurdly powerful stat that the movespeed from boots doesn't stack, period. Yet, Eul's is a second pair of brown boots on top of a great CC and infinite mana. That really defies all logic.

  10. #18810
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    No one's asking to remove the items, people are asking to make them take a bit of forethought and skill to use. Blink's break period needs to be twice as long, and the overall cooldown needs to probably go up by at least 50%. Eul's needs to lose the movespeed completely. Base movespeed is considered such an absurdly powerful stat that the movespeed from boots doesn't stack, period. Yet, Eul's is a second pair of brown boots on top of a great CC and infinite mana. That really defies all logic.
    Theres a fine line between nerfing items from being fair to the point of oblivion. You nerf blink dagger like that and its just going to change what heroes people pick further limiting a already shrinking hero pool in whatever the current patch 'meta' is.

  11. #18811
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    No one's asking to remove the items, people are asking to make them take a bit of forethought and skill to use. Blink's break period needs to be twice as long, and the overall cooldown needs to probably go up by at least 50%. Eul's needs to lose the movespeed completely. Base movespeed is considered such an absurdly powerful stat that the movespeed from boots doesn't stack, period. Yet, Eul's is a second pair of brown boots on top of a great CC and infinite mana. That really defies all logic.
    Oh man I would cry if the movement speed was removed. I love that on Crystal Maiden with drums. Speed Maiden.

    Otherwise I'm so slow.

  12. #18812
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Theres a fine line between nerfing items from being fair to the point of oblivion. You nerf blink dagger like that and its just going to change what heroes people pick further limiting a already shrinking hero pool in whatever the current patch 'meta' is.
    How does a longer cooldown on blink nerf any hero reliant on it? Sand King, Earthshaker, Magnus, Tide, Enigma, all of the heroes that Blink was essentially designed for only need to blink once to do their job. It's being able to blink multiple times in one fight that is game ruining.


    @Jester
    I agree, it's a nice addition to int heroes. The problem is when Eul's starts becoming a godly buy on just about anybody because the stats are all around awesome. Eul's Axe? Eul's Bloodseeker? Eul's SF? Pudge? Clock? Kunkka? Omni? ET? There are tons of heroes that love this item despite being the wrong kind of hero for it. Pretty much anyone with a spell that has a delay is perfect for Eul's because with the endless mana and huge movespeed it gives it is already a great pickup.

    Hilariously, Jakiro is probably the most balanced with Euls, because you actually have like half a second to blink/BKB/phase shift/etc out of ice path when you land for some unknown reason.

  13. #18813
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    How does a longer cooldown on blink nerf any hero reliant on it? Sand King, Earthshaker, Magnus, Tide, Enigma, all of the heroes that Blink was essentially designed for only need to blink once to do their job. It's being able to blink multiple times in one fight that is game ruining.
    I hear what you're saying, and its hard to argue vs that point of the one blink to initiate for the heroes mentioned. For me personally blink dagger is fun, it gives a lot of freedoms not afforded to some heroes and changes the dynamic of the game.

  14. #18814
    It does. And that's what's gone overboard. Blink dagger is an item where you can initiate and, with the short break period, very possibly a free exit too if your opponent isn't noticeably faster than you.

  15. #18815
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Fate's Edict shouldn't do a damn thing against Aghs Laguna unless I am understanding it incorrectly. In fact, it should BOOST pure damage so Aghs Lina will do a nice 1500 Laguna on someone Oracle tries to "save."
    Until Lina has Aghs it does help, and afterwards False Promise casts even faster than Fate's Edict.

  16. #18816
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    It usually depends on how much resist the target has and how much overkill damage we are talking about. From my experience, urn+mek is often enough for ally to run to safety. Also not sure about purifying flames, they do add damage, but it also heals for a lot AND the damage on ally does't drop an ally below 1 HP. So, if we are talking about someone at 1,5k health getting pooped on with 1,7k damage combo it's perfectly survivable with false promise+mek+purifying flames+urn.
    Heal is applied before any of the damage is dealt, or at least it's supposed to operate that way. If you take your full health in damage, you are guaranteed to die regardless of how much healing you received, unless the spell is bugged and not operating probably (which it probably is, and won't get fixed, because Valve ignores all bug reports.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  17. #18817
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Until Lina has Aghs it does help, and afterwards False Promise casts even faster than Fate's Edict.
    We already talked about this on Steam. But for everyone else's benefit I'll remind you:
    Using one ult before the other in order to stop it is a moot point, because Lina will just euls, stun, and then walk away after Oracle blows his ult on nothing. 10 seconds later Lina is ready to combo again and Oracle is not.

  18. #18818
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    @Jester
    I agree, it's a nice addition to int heroes. The problem is when Eul's starts becoming a godly buy on just about anybody because the stats are all around awesome. Eul's Axe? Eul's Bloodseeker? Eul's SF? Pudge? Clock? Kunkka? Omni? ET? There are tons of heroes that love this item despite being the wrong kind of hero for it. Pretty much anyone with a spell that has a delay is perfect for Eul's because with the endless mana and huge movespeed it gives it is already a great pickup.

    Hilariously, Jakiro is probably the most balanced with Euls, because you actually have like half a second to blink/BKB/phase shift/etc out of ice path when you land for some unknown reason.
    To be fair, Pudge has always been a mess with items it seems, you can get whatever and as long as you land hook and ult, you're good. But yeah, it is a bit weird for the rest, the only one I have yet to see is Eul's Axe.

    Also the reason I never play Jakiro, whenever I play him, they might as well rename all his skills "Walk to the side", because that's all I manage to make the other team do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    It does. And that's what's gone overboard. Blink dagger is an item where you can initiate and, with the short break period, very possibly a free exit too if your opponent isn't noticeably faster than you.
    And it made it so no one really cares about Force Staff even though by design it should be the "Getaway" tool.

  19. #18819
    Jakiro is great with Eul's, I just really don't understand why there's a delay when people land in an already fully active ice path before they get frozen. I used to go Eul's first Axe 100% of the time before hunger got nerfed. Sadly, or perhaps happily, Axe no longer needs mana or movespeed and a blink is slightly better for landing calls.

  20. #18820
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    To be fair, Pudge has always been a mess with items it seems, you can get whatever and as long as you land hook and ult, you're good. But yeah, it is a bit weird for the rest, the only one I have yet to see is Eul's Axe.

    Also the reason I never play Jakiro, whenever I play him, they might as well rename all his skills "Walk to the side", because that's all I manage to make the other team do.



    And it made it so no one really cares about Force Staff even though by design it should be the "Getaway" tool.
    Blink Dagger on Pudge is fucking retarded and never should've been allowed. It's not overpowered, but it completely removes the skill requirement for playing the hero because you can either just blink and chomp on them, or you can blink into a position that makes it virtually impossible to avoid the hook. Same thing with Windrunner and Shackleshot, and arguably VS and Nether Swap, too.

    Blink Dagger in general is just too overpowered because it allows you to make tons of errors with positioning and timing and 90% it becomes "w/e, I'll just blink."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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