1. #19781
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    It's 3k MMR.
    I'll clarify because you seem to be missing the entire point of this hero:

    Nobody thinks Storm is an auto-win hero that you might as well just give up if enemy picks him. No hero in the game is that good or ever will be because it's still a team game and, honestly, there are way too many zero skill one shot mechanics now for any one hero to be unstoppable. That's not the issue with Storm.

    The issue with Storm is that he's guaranteed farm, you can't stop that. He's guaranteed kills on anyone who runs around alone, you can't really stop that either. He puts up a huge amount of global pressure simply by being in the game. He's also zero fun to play against, because he jumps on you from far beyond your vision range and kills you before you can react or play the game again. It's like playing against Zeus in -wtf mode after he's level 6, you just sit back and watch yourself die and go grab a drink or something in the meantime. Void has the same issue, but Void requires farm, because his damage comes from right clicks, not spells that work while naked.

    On top of how Storm forces you to change the way you play the game, much like other cancer picks (techies), he is also one of the easiest heroes in the game to play. People can debate this all they want, but a monkey can click R, click on enemy hero, click Orchid on them, and kill them before the silence wears off. That's what this hero does, and until you have BKB, there's not really anything you can do about it other than pray an ally saves you. And, once you have BKB, you're forced to use it the second he jumps on you, at which point he can just jump away and he wasted a charge of your BKB for free.

    What does all this mean?

    tl;dr
    Storm is the ultimate retard pick and total downers can win free MMR all day long spamming this hero. Nobody in the world thinks Blitz would be any higher than 4500 if bans existed in AP, he's not that great of a player and really only got where he is because he practiced one of the most ridiculous heroes in the game until his eyes bled. It's frustrating because it means that you're at an immediate disadvantage if you don't pick one of the top half a dozen heroes that are, quite simply, better than the rest. That's fine in ranked, where the entire point is to spam broken heroes and MMR is really just a measure of who is the most dedicated to pursuing a number, rather than having fun, but people ruin unranked games with this shit, too.

    As a side note, this patch is easily one of the most unbalanced patches, if not THE most unbalanced, since the creation of dota2. It's pretty disappointing to see this shitshow is still going after TI5, I really hope we will see a balance patch soon. Seeing the same 10 heroes in every game in TI should have made it obvious.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-07 at 08:01 PM.

  2. #19782
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    tl;dr
    Storm is the ultimate retard pick and total downers can win free MMR all day long spamming this hero. Nobody in the world thinks Blitz would be any higher than 4500 if bans existed in AP, he's not that great of a player and really only got where he is because he practiced one of the most ridiculous heroes in the game until his eyes bled. It's frustrating because it means that you're at an immediate disadvantage if you don't pick one of the top half a dozen heroes that are, quite simply, better than the rest. That's fine in ranked, where the entire point is to spam broken heroes and MMR is really just a measure of who is the most dedicated to pursuing a number, rather than having fun, but people ruin unranked games with this shit, too.

    As a side note, this patch is easily one of the most unbalanced patches, if not THE most unbalanced, since the creation of dota2. It's pretty disappointing to see this shitshow is still going after TI5, I really hope we will see a balance patch soon. Seeing the same 10 heroes in every game in TI should have made it obvious.
    Yeah, sorry I play at 3k MMR and didn't know you can solo kill anyone as Storm. I haven't played the hero enough. That Storm in the replay I linked just showed mercy to the TA and didn't kill her even though she was right up in his face all alone.

    I'm sorry, I thought Blitz said he reached 6.5k again while randoming. Maybe I misheard.

  3. #19783
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Yeah, sorry I play at 3k MMR and didn't know you can solo kill anyone as Storm. I haven't played the hero enough. That Storm in the replay I linked just showed mercy to the TA and didn't kill her even though she was right up in his face all alone.

    I'm sorry, I thought Blitz said he reached 6.5k again while randoming. Maybe I misheard.
    Didn't watch replay, not going to watch replay, sorry if that ruins the discussion but I'm going to assume what I already said just by looking at his teammates - it was 1v5 and there was nothing he could do. It's pretty hard to kill even WW when there's 3 other heroes right next to her waiting to assist (especially when you don't have an Orchid).

    If you're such a godly TA and actually deserve your MMR, and Storm is so damn easy for you to beat, it shouldn't be hard for you to reproduce a couple dozen replays of actually close games where you shut down Storm and won the game for your team. I mean, after all, the hero is picked pretty much every goddamn game in pubs right now.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-08 at 01:26 AM.

  4. #19784
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    If you're such a godly TA and actually deserve your MMR, and Storm is so damn easy for you to beat, it shouldn't be hard for you to reproduce a couple dozen replays of actually close games where you shut down Storm and won the game for your team. I mean, after all, the hero is picked pretty much every goddamn game in pubs right now.
    Games against Storm as TA are never close because it's a counter. That's the point of being a counter...

    Can I reproduce those stomps? Sure.

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1771563550
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1766436510
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1763073816
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1721093825
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1702821196
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1680494739

    Do note, this was not cherry picking. These were the most recent games against Storm. 100% win rate if you can't bother clicking. I am not generally a counter picker and most of the time these guys pick Storm into TA. I don't even consider myself good on TA. Everyone is just fucking bad at TA because they're bad at laning with the hero.

    Bonus non-TA games:

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1777653514
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1773116963 (went Tinker woods against a BH and Rikimaru. LOL. Was fun game.)
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1771905381
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1775307028 (lost as QoP but I didn't want to win that game. Notice the Dagon purchase after I lost hope in my team. Guy said he'd play support Furion in pick screen and then proceeded to buy QB and Mantle and AFK jungle all game)
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2015-09-08 at 02:22 AM.

  5. #19785
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    That Storm in the replay I linked just showed mercy to the TA and didn't kill her even though she was right up in his face all alone.
    But like I said TA is one of the heroes Storm can't easily kill, thus they have little impact on each other after the initial laning. Anyway the problem I have is that even when I play in a 5-stack it's pretty common for a Storm to lose mid and just fuck off and farm the jungle and whichever lane is empty for the next 10 minutes and still complete a 15-20 minute Orchid and proceed to murder any support that strays into enemy wards or any core that dares to farm along with less than 1500hp. Every kid tries to be Suma1l now and goes max overload remnant which is a pretty effective jungling build with just SR Bottle (+Treads.) I don't really take issue with Storm besides him being really not fun to play against because the second you enter within 5000 units of an enemy tower you instantly have to worry about Storm.

    I get that TA and other heroes can own him in a lane but especially in pubs the first 5-10 minutes just sometimes don't mean jack shit. In a pro game or a very high mmr game sure it might be impossible for Storm to come back from but in a normal pub it'll still usually be possible for a Storm to feed off the player(s) who don't know how to deal with his presence, not to mention that the Storm is usually last picked against a lineup that isn't good against him in the first place.

    I know you as a mid player will like to think that you can dominate the lane so hard you single-handedly won the game in the first 5 minutes (which does happen, I don't deny it) but assuming not everyone in the game is 6k MMR nothing really prevents the Storm for saying fuck it 5 minutes into the game and telling a support to come leech xp in mid while he goes jungling where your psi blades cant reach him.

    Anyway I think this patch is pretty good, if patch notes contained nothing but a nerf to Lesh, BS and Techies I'd be happy.

  6. #19786
    Deleted
    @Hermanni

    I'm not denying the fact that people lose to Storm in pubs. I'm saying they lose because they don't know how to deal with Storm and play against the hero in the wrong way then cry about not being able to do anything. The thing is, bad Storms don't go into the jungle early. That's like what top MMR players do when they get shut down in lane. That's also what differentiates good mid players from bad ones. Good mid players rotate into jungle between waves and shit.

    Bad Storms tend to gank more at low MMR because it works. Everyone is just bad and the opposing mid doesn't know how to capitalize on that (carry a TP to counter gank or push the mid tower and power farm). Again, this is a player issue.

    Storm doesn't have great impact on a TA but a TA has impact on a Storm. Losing 80% of your HP in team fights after your first zip is not that fun. Having your tower constantly pushed so you can't gank or farm woods for too long also sucks.

  7. #19787
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Can I reproduce those stomps? Sure.
    I see two games where Storm got shut down, and it's arguable, looks like he was intentionally feeding in one of them. Not really proving your point. You still seem to misunderstand what I am saying. I'm pretty sure I have at least a 55-60% winrate against Storm. That doesn't stop him from being a bullshit hero.

  8. #19788
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I see two games where Storm got shut down, and it's arguable, looks like he was intentionally feeding in one of them. Not really proving your point. You still seem to misunderstand what I am saying. I'm pretty sure I have at least a 55-60% winrate against Storm. That doesn't stop him from being a bullshit hero.
    I mean, if you can't keep above 400 GPM on a hero like Storm I'd consider you shut down. Unless you're a KDA hero.Which games didn't he get shut down in?

    I mean, I know people like you and others like to play against Storm by trying to completely shut him down thinking it'll win you the game. That's not how I beat Storm. I shit on him mid, I let him do his little dance around the map while not farming and then just overpower him with my item advantage. That's how I win against Storm.

    Tell me how I didn't win the games for my team. I was a fucking beast in those games I linked.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2015-09-08 at 02:45 AM.

  9. #19789
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Tell me how I didn't win the games for my team. I was a fucking beast in those games I linked.
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1777905521
    hey look, I shrekt a Storm picker too

    Still a bullshit hero

  10. #19790
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    @Hermanni

    I'm not denying the fact that people lose to Storm in pubs. I'm saying they lose because they don't know how to deal with Storm and play against the hero in the wrong way then cry about not being able to do anything. The thing is, bad Storms don't go into the jungle early. That's like what top MMR players do when they get shut down in lane. That's also what differentiates good mid players from bad ones. Good mid players rotate into jungle between waves and shit.

    Bad Storms tend to gank more at low MMR because it works. Everyone is just bad and the opposing mid doesn't know how to capitalize on that (carry a TP to counter gank or push the mid tower and power farm). Again, this is a player issue.
    It's hard for me to make any judgements based on MMR because last month+ pretty much all my games have been 5-stacks in Reborn, where until recently matchmaking has been a bit wonky. I've like 75% winrate for that time, enemies often seem to be way below us in MMR and half the time aren't even a 5-stack. We clown around and don't tryhard and still win. We played 3 times against some stack that was farming ~100% winrate accounts in Reborn and only lost one game to our awful picks after which those guys just started dodging us. But generally I've seen both of those Storms, the ones that gank after losing mid and the ones that farm. Usually the ones who last pick Storm are the ones who have some idea of what they're doing and know when to just farm, which makes them doubly annoying.

    But again, the issue is that Storm can just capitalize on one or more weaker players/heroes in your team. You can know exactly how to deal with Storm but it won't always help when your teammates aren't on the same page. And even when you know how to deal with Storm he can still put a lot of pressure you, knowing you can't farm a lane alone anywhere on some heroes when an Orchid Storm is in the opposing team is more than mildly annoying.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2015-09-08 at 03:24 AM.

  11. #19791
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1777905521
    hey look, I shrekt a Storm picker too

    Still a bullshit hero
    What's your point? You are the one telling me to reproduce how easy it is for me to beat Storm and prove to you I'm a TA god. What do you want me to do except for what I already linked? Do you want me to purposefully make the games close and do you want me to change my playstyle to chasing Storm all game?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    But again, the issue is that Storm can just capitalize on one or more weaker players/heroes in your team. You can know exactly how to deal with Storm but it won't always help when your teammates aren't on the same page. And even when you know how to deal with Storm he can still put a lot of pressure you, knowing you can't farm a lane alone anywhere on some heroes when an Orchid Storm is in the opposing team is more than mildly annoying.
    5-stacks vs 5-stacks are way different. I actually can't play those games. I shit on their entire team then they start to 5-man Dota and I refuse to play that way so I just yolo into 5 heroes and feed.

    My style against Storm works. I don't need my teammates to be on the same page. I just need to render the Storm useless in the fights I'm in and create space for my team.

  12. #19792
    Deleted
    All this talking about TA vs Storm and im just sitting here thinking TA is actually super fucking OP in pubs too.

  13. #19793
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    All this talking about TA vs Storm and im just sitting here thinking TA is actually super fucking OP in pubs too.
    TA isn't so much OP as she can play almost any matchup even (yes, that includes "counterpicks" like Viper and Ember who most often just end up feeding instead against a TA that understands those matchups and maxes Meld first instead of Refraction) at worst, and farms very fast. Against uncoordinated teams this allows an even marginally superior laner to exploit the almost guaranteed good start and get far ahead very quickly, but unlike a Storm with a bad start that can catch up quickly and efficiently in the jungle, a TA that's already far behind (i.e ganked 3-4 times) becomes very worthless very quickly.

    Also people who go Phase --> Blink on TA in every fucking game need to stop picking TA. There's a time and a place for that in maybe one out of 100 TA games, but some people insist on doing it and feeding like fucking idiots in almost every game.

  14. #19794
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    What's your point? You are the one telling me to reproduce how easy it is for me to beat Storm and prove to you I'm a TA god. What do you want me to do except for what I already linked? Do you want me to purposefully make the games close and do you want me to change my playstyle to chasing Storm all game?
    Simply listing games that you won and storm happened to be on the enemy team isn't very convincing. We all win games against Storm. Still a bullshit hero.

  15. #19795
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Simply listing games that you won and storm happened to be on the enemy team isn't very convincing. We all win games against Storm. Still a bullshit hero.
    So what kind of games did you want me to link?

  16. #19796
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    So what kind of games did you want me to link?
    Games where Storm lost and the rest of his team was not feeding would be a start. I see a couple of games where the lineup was simply stacked, one that was over in 12 minutes, and the rest Storm's team is feeding.

  17. #19797
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Games where Storm lost and the rest of his team was not feeding would be a start. I see a couple of games where the lineup was simply stacked, one that was over in 12 minutes, and the rest Storm's team is feeding.
    Sorry, I can't reproduce that because when I win on TA I just kill everyone. Supports can't do much when they get two shot. As I said, I don't go around chasing Storm when I beat Storms. That's not how I counter Storm. And it works.

  18. #19798
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Sorry, I can't reproduce that because when I win on TA I just kill everyone. Supports can't do much when they get two shot. As I said, I don't go around chasing Storm when I beat Storms. That's not how I counter Storm. And it works.
    Then you have failed to convince me that Storm is anything other than a bullshit hero. I don't care about your strategy for beating him. I beat him all the time.

  19. #19799
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Then you have failed to convince me that Storm is anything other than a bullshit hero. I don't care about your strategy for beating him. I beat him all the time.
    Believe what you want. I have shown you how easy it is for me to beat Storm. Now, just because it isn't the same way you want me to beat Storms doesn't matter. It's still easy for me and I have the stats to back it up.

    If you beat him all the time and I beat him all the time, then why is he even strong? Because he is annoying to play against?

  20. #19800
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    If you beat him all the time and I beat him all the time, then why is he even strong? Because he is annoying to play against?
    Because even when you beat him he gets gold, he gets items, and he can kill anyone on your team at any second. It's like playing against Techies. And every time I have a hero like Weaver and start the game 14-0 only to get one shotted by a max range Storm ult and lose the game, I am reminded of how this hero should not exist at all. Just because most people are awful with him doesn't mean he isn't broken.




    You know, imagine if Techies could teleport half way across the map and stun you instantly and then teleport back to safety.


    Hell, even in that LC game I linked, we had a team fight bot when the game was already ridiculously in our favor, and storm gets a triple kill just by showing up and pressing r 3 times. Does it win him the game? No. Does that make it any less bullshit? No.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-08 at 07:15 PM.

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