[Megathread] DotA 2

[Lysah]

interwebz virgins needs to see gal...that's why

You don't see toby placing his casting screen on viewport.

That's kind of what I was thinking, but I assume when he said caster(s) it means other people do it, too.

[Deleted]

Really good support, I'd call him top tier. His stun is just plain OP if you know how to time it (basically WR's Shackle without any finnicky AI to deal with), Malefice is really good when used right, and his ulti will straight up level entire teams... if you time it right. High base damage along with a great regen skill once you have the mana to support it makes him a pretty great overall support. Plus he's hilarious.

I did play a few game with me and he is amazing. With the ult scepter, I won the game for our team in 3 different games, usually when we were close to losing.

One more question though. I'm new to the game so I'm not sure what's right or wrong, but I seem to be dying as WD a LOT. Am I supposed to as a support or is there something I can do? I'm not being overly aggressive, I'm not a complete newb to moba's, just this one

[PizzaSHARK]

I did play a few game with me and he is amazing. With the ult scepter, I won the game for our team in 3 different games, usually when we were close to losing.

One more question though. I'm new to the game so I'm not sure what's right or wrong, but I seem to be dying as WD a LOT. Am I supposed to as a support or is there something I can do? I'm not being overly aggressive, I'm not a complete newb to moba's, just this one

Generally speaking supports are agility or int heroes which means they don't have a lot of STR... so low HP. They also tend to be pretty minimal on items since early farm goes to carries and they don't want to get the killing blow if they can help it.

Supports are usually squishy and are also usually the first people targeted - the faster the supports die, the faster the enemy carries are without their supports, especially for supports that can toss out heals or disables (CM, AA, WD, Necro, Lion, etc.)

So yeah, supports tend to die a LOT - watch pro games with, say, a veno support. Chances are the veno will be dying quite often, but as long as he does his job, it won't matter. You do want to try and avoid dying when you could have avoided it (like pushing too far when there are missing heroes), but if you die in a teamfight... meh, it's expected. As long as you're racking up assists or pushing down towers, you're doing your job.

[Deleted]

Generally speaking supports are agility or int heroes which means they don't have a lot of STR... so low HP. They also tend to be pretty minimal on items since early farm goes to carries and they don't want to get the killing blow if they can help it.

Supports are usually squishy and are also usually the first people targeted - the faster the supports die, the faster the enemy carries are without their supports, especially for supports that can toss out heals or disables (CM, AA, WD, Necro, Lion, etc.)

So yeah, supports tend to die a LOT - watch pro games with, say, a veno support. Chances are the veno will be dying quite often, but as long as he does his job, it won't matter. You do want to try and avoid dying when you could have avoided it (like pushing too far when there are missing heroes), but if you die in a teamfight... meh, it's expected. As long as you're racking up assists or pushing down towers, you're doing your job.

Got it. The only reason I asked was because I was getting focused down in teamfights and even though we won those teamfights due to some very good WD stuns and ulti's (not trying to sound full of myself), I was getting killed. There was always some idiot on our team or the other team saying "noob WD, 12 deaths"... Yeah, and 20 assists.

But like I said, just making sure. One thing I've realised I haven't been doing is taking Shadowblade, and I think that will cut down deaths a little if I learn to use it well.

[Kuntantee]

That's kind of what I was thinking, but I assume when he said caster(s) it means other people do it, too.

Just checked again, Tobi doesn't put his face on screen and as far as I remember the commentators from JoinDota doesn't put their face on screen.

It's the demand of internet virgins I guess

[hailey]

Tobi used to but took it off because people complained about how stupid it is. Casters are generally an incredibly narcissistic group of people who have to always be on camera or they wither and die or something. Some of them aren't but they are the exception these days. It has nothing to do with being a girl, just look at the king of narcissistic casters, Day 9. He can't go 10 seconds without switching to a full screen view of his face. They are just in love with themselves.

[Finear]

Just checked again, Tobi doesn't put his face on screen and as far as I remember the commentators from JoinDota doesn't put their face on screen.

It's the demand of internet virgins I guess

he used to but after UI changes there is no place for camera screen

[PizzaSHARK]

Got it. The only reason I asked was because I was getting focused down in teamfights and even though we won those teamfights due to some very good WD stuns and ulti's (not trying to sound full of myself), I was getting killed. There was always some idiot on our team or the other team saying "noob WD, 12 deaths"... Yeah, and 20 assists.

But like I said, just making sure. One thing I've realised I haven't been doing is taking Shadowblade, and I think that will cut down deaths a little if I learn to use it well.

No man, supports can't afford shadow blade, and it's a crap item for almost everyone, anyway - there's a reason the pros don't get it on anyone but Kunkka.

As a support, your job is to spend what little money you have on wards, smoke, dust, more wards, items like Mekansm or Pipe of Insight, chicken (courier), more wards, and occasionally items like Eul's scepter, Guinsoo's scythe (sheepstick), Bloodstone, Force Staff, if you can afford them. Most of the time you're going to want Arcane Boots since they're damned nice to have for your team, but if your team already has a couple pairs, I tend to favor Phase Boots for the movement speed.

If you feel you need an escape button, buy Force Staff. It's cheap, the STR gives you more health, and once you get good with it, it's one of the most ridiculously versatile items in the game. I wouldn't say it should be part of your every-hero-core, but your team should probably buy one at some point in most games... I seriously can't overstate how goddamned useful it is.

Bloodstone is really good on some heroes if you're having a really good early and mid game. The stat boosts make you much harder to bring down, it's a whole pile of mana regen, and it reduces the penalties for dying as well as allowing you to gain XP while dead. Considering supports usually pop off a few spells and then get focused into the ground, this makes a bigger difference than it might seem. It's not an item that's good on everyone, though, and really only works well if you get it quickly... so usually only if you've had a successful game ganking.

Urn of Shadows is a great, cheap item if you're constantly roaming and getting into fights. In the early game it can finish people off (be aware that players can deny teammates with urn charges on them) or keep your team topped off. It gives some mana regen and STR (HP), so if you're doing a lot of roaming, you might consider buying one. Don't get an urn if someone else is getting one, though.

Likewise, don't buy a Mekansm or Pipe if someone else is getting one. Every team can benefit hugely from having both Mek and Pipe, so talk to your other support and find out who's gonna buy what. Mek's cheaper so the person that's gonna buy Pipe should ideally be the support that can more easily farm jungles and side lanes to get the money in a hurry.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 11:08 AM ----------

Tobi used to but took it off because people complained about how stupid it is. Casters are generally an incredibly narcissistic group of people who have to always be on camera or they wither and die or something. Some of them aren't but they are the exception these days. It has nothing to do with being a girl, just look at the king of narcissistic casters, Day 9. He can't go 10 seconds without switching to a full screen view of his face. They are just in love with themselves.

Yeah. Day9's fantastic for information but I will never understand why casters feel the need to show everyone their face constantly. Seriously, I don't care - when it's time for an explanation you don't need to swap back to webcam, I'm totally fine with you showing us stuff in-game while you talk.

[Alraml]

Yeah. Day9's fantastic for information but I will never understand why casters feel the need to show everyone their face constantly. Seriously, I don't care - when it's time for an explanation you don't need to swap back to webcam, I'm totally fine with you showing us stuff in-game while you talk.

A lot of the time it seems to be so he can express himself better but i'm a person who likes that because it allows me to connect to them more as person. Not during a live-competitive game of course.

[Valedus]

Played a game last night with my brother and an rl buddy, and without planning on it, we played Omni (me), Necrolyte, and Dazzle with our two randoms being Lone Druid and Chaos Knight. The other team was getting quite pissed just because we had a team with three heals on it. We almost didn't win though, because our CK was pretty bad. He kept using his ult like 15 seconds before team fights would start so the illusions would poof like 5 seconds into the fight or even right before the fight started some of the time. It made me sad. =(

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 06:54 PM ----------

Holy crap, so haven't played DotA 1 in forever, and I was looking through the dota 2 wiki at the unreleased heroes again and I saw Tauren Chieftain. He was around back when I played, but I don't remember his passive being this good.
http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Tauren_Chieftain

Armor Reduction: 20%/40%/60%/80%
Magical Damage Amplification: 20%/40%/60%/80%

Correct me if I'm wrong, but amplifying magic damage by 80% sounds like quite a bit. Back when I played, I remember it just being -25% magic resist to people around you. This is a huge difference, might just be a mis-datamine or something.

Let's say Lina shoots her ult at someone next to Tauren Chieftain. (Biggest nuke out there)
Her ult at 16 does 950 damage.
950 x 1.8 (80% amp) = 1,710 x .75 (25% base magic resist) = 1282.5 damage. That's without her having Aghanim's and no other damage increasing effects like Veil or Orchid.

If she did have Aghanims....
1250 x 1.8 = 2250 x .75 = 1687.5
Am I reading this skill wrong? This seems like a MASSIVE increase to magic damage done. Is it only Magic damage Tauren Chieftain does? Seems like if you paired him with Ancient Apparition, you could steamroll teams pretty quickly.

Edit: Granted, it does only have a 275 radius, but your spirit has it also and 275 really isn't THAT small. It's about the same range as the max amplify on Undying.

[Finear]

http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Tauren_Chieftain

Armor Reduction: 20%/40%/60%/80%
Magical Damage Amplification: 20%/40%/60%/80%

Correct me if I'm wrong, but amplifying magic damage by 80% sounds like quite a bit. Back when I played, I remember it just being -25% magic resist to people around you. This is a huge difference, might just be a mis-datamine or something.

Let's say Lina shoots her ult at someone next to Tauren Chieftain. (Biggest nuke out there)
Her ult at 16 does 950 damage.
950 x 1.8 (80% amp) = 1,710 x .75 (25% base magic resist) = 1282.5 damage. That's without her having Aghanim's and no other damage increasing effects like Veil or Orchid.

If she did have Aghanims....
1250 x 1.8 = 2250 x .75 = 1687.5
Am I reading this skill wrong? This seems like a MASSIVE increase to magic damage done. Is it only Magic damage Tauren Chieftain does? Seems like if you paired him with Ancient Apparition, you could steamroll teams pretty quickly.

Edit: Granted, it does only have a 275 radius, but your spirit has it also and 275 really isn't THAT small. It's about the same range as the max amplify on Undying.

it should be magic resistance reduction not damage amplification
-80% magic resistance is roughly equal to 25% damage amplification on naked hero (im not sure how it works with hood/passives)

[Valedus]

it should be magic resistance reduction not damage amplification
-80% magic resistance is roughly equal to 25% damage amplification on naked hero (im not sure how it works with hood/passives)

See that's what I was wondering, if it was an amplification or just lowered base resistances... because amplification would have been ridiculous. Either way, still a great hero and I can't wait for him to come back.

[PizzaSHARK]

it should be magic resistance reduction not damage amplification
-80% magic resistance is roughly equal to 25% damage amplification on naked hero (im not sure how it works with hood/passives)

It would negate hood/pipe/etc. Be interesting to see TC as a pick to counter Pudge's Flesh Heap.

I didn't play Dota back when Legion Commander was in, he looks like a damned fun hero.

[Deleted]

No man, supports can't afford shadow blade, and it's a crap item for almost everyone, anyway - there's a reason the pros don't get it on anyone but Kunkka.

That's bizarre. Nearly every WD guide I've read has said to buy Shadowblade, solely for his ultimate.

[Kuntantee]

That's bizarre. Nearly every WD guide I've read has said to buy Shadowblade, solely for his ultimate.

It's hard to farm enough money for lothar in pro games but that will work just fine in pubs.

It would negate hood/pipe/etc. Be interesting to see TC as a pick to counter Pudge's Flesh Heap.

I didn't play Dota back when Legion Commander was in, he looks like a damned fun hero.

That passive doesn't need a counter. You're overrating trivial details.

[Lysah]

TC is a hard initiator, not a specific counter to anything. A well placed echo stomp/split earth can cut an enemy team in half.

And despite what people say about lothar's, it's an absurdly good item on him, as you can follow up your ult with a 600 damage auto attack on someone and your team starts the fight already cleaning them up.

His aura shouldn't be looked at as something that counters heavy armor/magic resistance heroes, TC is picked for his absurdly awesome stun and ultimate. The aura is just a free bonus to damage. Remember that it only removes base magic res/armor. Great for making agility heroes weaker, won't do anything to strength heroes with +armor items. The -enemy resist isn't game breaking either way.

TC is one of my favorites, a good ancestral spirit/stomp/SE and you can run up and two shot an enemy carry/clean up the rest of his team.

[PizzaSHARK]

I really want to see Tiny+Wisp. Tiny buys scepter, wisp ports to enemy tower, tiny kicks it down, and poof, back to where they were.

Wisp+Sven sounds pretty funny, too. Just randomly show up, cleave the enemy team in half, and disappear.

[Deleted]

I really want to see Tiny+Wisp. Tiny buys scepter, wisp ports to enemy tower, tiny kicks it down, and poof, back to where they were.

Wisp+Sven sounds pretty funny, too. Just randomly show up, cleave the enemy team in half, and disappear.

I've seen plenty of Juggernaut - Wisp combo's out there. Trust me you don't want to lane against that >.<

[PizzaSHARK]

I've seen plenty of Juggernaut - Wisp combo's out there. Trust me you don't want to lane against that >.<

Worst lane I've gone up against recently was Lion+Zeus. A lot of harassment the whole time and once they get level 6 they can pretty much dive you at will and get at least one kill guaranteed. If you get caught out of position for even half a second you're dead - stunned, zapped, hexed, and zapped again as you reach the safety of your tower. Guaranteed to force a salve or just kill you if you weren't near full to begin with.



What're our chances of ever seeing Zeus as a support at a professional level? I know he's not favored since he isn't as versatile as other picks, but he can push pretty well starting in the midgame (once he maxes Arc Lightning and has the mana flow to support constant spam), his ulti functions as global true sight on all heroes for a few seconds (in addition to the damage, which is significant since it hits all heroes on the enemy team), and his primary nuke hits reasonably hard, has a ministun, and grants vision for a few seconds. His spells remain relevant into the late game since his passive causes 11% of a target's current HP as HP removal when they're within a certain range.

Just seems like he might be being underutilized, especially since his ulti gives true sight. True, he's squishy, but a couple of bracers fix that pretty easily and he's capable of doing pretty significant damage to the enemy team with his ulti and passive. He'd never replace a Tinker or Leshrac but I'd wager he's a lot less likely to ever get banned than those two, either.

[hailey]

Zeus is a terrible support and mediocre ganker with poor stat gain, you can't really play him effectively anywhere but mid and he gets dominated both in last hits and rune control. He's just a bad hero unfortunately