I'm disappointed in the beta of dota 2 played 2 weeks and i doesn't get me to play more and more so i quited.
I'm disappointed in the beta of dota 2 played 2 weeks and i doesn't get me to play more and more so i quited.
How does Morphling beat Tiny? Tiny has high STR growth so isn't vulnerable to shotgunning and if Morph is running around with low STR he's liable to get gibbed in a Tiny combo before he can do anything about it. At high levels Tiny tanks up and Craggy Exterior will proc stuns on Morphling if Tiny is close enough to hit Morphling with his stick.
Axe can do most anything, really. Guess he's not top tier, but he's versatile and useful. Battle Hunger is extremely strong for the first 20-30 minutes of the game and is still fairly useful after. He's virtually impossible to harass (you're just helping him farm) and he's good at controlling creep waves (common practice is for Axe to just camp between enemy t2 and t3 towers.) Later he can be used for initiation/control by blinking in and taunting. Arcane Boots are increasingly common on him as a replacement for Tranquil Boots (I usually disassemble Tranqs and make Arcanes by 25 mins) and he's actually a pretty decent Meka carrier once spamming Battle Hunger on everything becomes less important.
His ulti is great at ensuring (in pubs, this is more like "stealing") kills and if he gets scepter, he can ulti a creep to give his team a 25% movespeed boost to help them position prior to and during fights.
You can't go wrong with Profit. We saw teams handle him well in TI2 but he's still easily a top-tier hero who is disgustingly strong when played properly, and who can fill virtually any role as long as it involves getting at least SOME farm.If it's true, which it likely is, then I'll have run out of junglers that I can play reliably. Any recommendations? I'm not fond of Enigma at all so he's out of the question.
Played a game as Mirana today where I split farm with Slardar in our lane, and things ended up pretty well. I usually play Mirana as a sort of semi-carry, getting Mjollnir instead of typical carry items. Dunno if it's ideal but it's fun.
Is there even a reason to put more than one point into Mirana's stun? Literally the only thing she gets with extra points is a fairly small amount of damage, and just putting points in stats would result in more total damage from attack speed, damage, and more mana for Starfall spam. Seems like Icefrog's next goal after getting Dota 2 "done" should be to sweep every hero and try and rebalance skills so that none of them are "one-point wonders" or have a situation like Dazzle's Q where putting a 4th point into the skill is effectively wasted.
I'm also wondering about redistributing skill allotments per-point so that some skills are top-heavy - where you get the most benefits from the 3rd and 4th points rather than the 1st or 2nd. Wouldn't mind there being more than one or two ways to build a hero, especially if the multiple ways can all be considered equally viable.
Max starfall first but arrow second if you're going for gank/damage. You leap into melee range of someone, facecheck them with arrow and get a melee range starfall off and you can win a duel against most heroes outright. Go farm supports who can't do a damn thing about the up front 700 damage + decent auto attacks/chase ability for gold.
As far as burst goes for duels/skirmishes leveling arrow is definitely worth it. I find going for max stuns unreliable anyway, even if you're good with skillshots it's pretty much luck once you start standing 2500 yards back, they have a solid five seconds to just step to the left and most people are always moving in lane anyway. Max damage on both nukes and you won't even need the stun for a successful gank anymore.
I would argue most/all heroes have multiple ways of being built. Even "simple" heroes like Leo/SB. Leoric might generally go stun/stats for early game, but I've built him aura/stun as lane support/semijungler to another melee hero before. SB can max his aura first for a more hyper carry farm style, or he can max his charge and get gold by ganking everyone on the map all the time. Juggernaut typically goes BF/stats, but I smashed a game going ward/BF and rushing orchid for storm spirit.
19/20 games you might go stun/BF + stats on leoric/juggernaut, but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to play by any means. Not to bring other games into it...but there is much more diversity in DotA2 builds than, say, LoL =p
Last edited by Lysah; 2012-09-04 at 11:39 PM.
Close range arrows make me rage against Mirana. ~1.5-2.0 sec stun from what seems to be about 400-600 range away just feels ridiculous, it's so easy to hit at that range, but I guess there's a reason for it given the huge cooldown.
Most heroes seem to only have one or two "good" builds and everything else is pretty much garbage. Like with Veno, you can max W first or E first and each is viable, but maxing Q first is almost never viable, not even in a tri-lane setup. Likewise, there's literally no reason to get more than 3 points into Dazzle's Q - even just +2 stats is better than that 4th point. Likewise, Tree's invisibility really feels like it's best with just the 1 point. You get really long duration with extra points, but fade time, mana cost, and tree distance (how far you can stray from trees before it breaks) all remain constant, so most of the time I just put one point into it and just get stats instead.I would argue most/all heroes have multiple ways of being built. Even "simple" heroes like Leo/SB. Leoric might generally go stun/stats for early game, but I've built him aura/stun as lane support/semijungler to another melee hero before. SB can max his aura first for a more hyper carry farm style, or he can max his charge and get gold by ganking everyone on the map all the time. Juggernaut typically goes BF/stats, but I smashed a game going ward/BF and rushing orchid for storm spirit.
I'm also not a fan of some skills providing enormous benefits for just one point. PA's Blur (1800 gold worth of evasion for 1 point), things like that. Seems like they could be rearranged so that the first point (or first two points) provide less benefit per-point than the last two or last point.
Well, yeah, LoL's biggest pitfall is that there's no real depth to the game... items are all mostly passive so it's just a matter of calculating best gold-per-stat.19/20 games you might go stun/BF + stats on leoric/juggernaut, but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to play by any means. Not to bring other games into it...but there is much more diversity in DotA2 builds than, say, LoL =p
Where's the balancing factor for Chaos Knight? I know he has mana issues early on but by time he's level 11 those are mostly eliminated through more stats and his team having arcanes, and he's so fucking strong once he starts taking his ulti. Free crit, he's a fantastic armlet user, almost impossible to escape from, and his ulti... man, just fuck his damn ulti. It seems like there's no real easy way of countering him because he's strong even when his ulti is down.
And how are you supposed to handle Morphling? He's so goddamned hard to gank without sending your entire team there, and if you do that... well, free lanes for the rest of his team, right?
Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-09-05 at 04:11 PM.
Agree with both points, but for debates sake here we go. Chaos Knight is difficult to counter, especially when he has his ulty up. that said, CC heroes or CC items, or both just to be super annoying. Witch Doctor (voodoo shaman) is a good pick. Maladect doesn't fade from the real CK when he ulties and ward shreds his illusions quickly. Tide is another good one with AOE ulty easy to find the real Chaos, then there's Riki with smoke before he can ulty.
God I hate Morphling, playing him or being against him. When some one else on my team has him he's shit, but every time i'm against him hes one of the better plays on the enemy team. But blink heroes in general are difficult to gank, best counters are CC and/or Silence. I love Drow and usually when I play against a Morph I will favor a longer silence. ie: Frost/Aura (depending on the other heroes i'm with)>Silence x2> opposite of level 1>Silence>Ulty. After this I resume building normal- aura for damage and arrows for slow, though you can argue that at 10 and 15 to get stats and max frost arrow last, even going as far as up to 18 doing stats instead (getting ulty where applicable). Her slow won't be as strong but she will hit quite a bit harder than the standard build.
Most Drow builds I've seen max aura and silence and just put 1 point in arrows until everything else is done. Silence is basically the only reason to take Drow over almost any other ranged carry (Clinkz is usually taken otherwise, since Orchid is standard on him) and her silence is pretty good.
Morphling is just impossible to gank because his stat swap skill is overpowered as hell. Using it through disables is fine, but it converts so much agility to strength and for fairly low mana that even if you can silence him to prevent the waveform out, he can tank two players almost indefinitely until he can waveform away. If it's an entire team, he can still probably stay alive for a good four or five seconds; he might die, but he can probably last long enough to let his team open up on yours, especially since you'll have blown so much just to kill morphling alone.
I dunno. It just seems like a well-played Morphling is virtually immune to ganks; he can't be ganked by just one or two players, and wards/communication will give him time to TP out if they're sending a full team after him. Plus he can use replicate to hop back into the lane/jungle after a recharge at the fountain or to cross the map without notice... ugh. I guess that's why Morphling was the #1 boy for all the 4-protect-1 teams in TI2... he don't need all that much protecting.
Normaly- early game I favor Aura till max over silence, and 3 second silence till about 6 / 7 is fine to get by (for me any way- rank 1). Getting a 4 second silence early helps mid game as it just enough to stop a major player from contributing to much in team fights or ganks/counter ganks (my opinion). I miss the old veno, could go 1 point nuke, then stats n Poision sting (attack modifier) till 9, at 10/11 get ulty. Could make just about any hero leave the lane, and if by 3 no one had FB'd, I was guaranteed to get it. Hate the new way to build him, where its one or the other and wards- hated wards were so easy to kill back in the day that it left a bad taste in my mouth, but he was a hard carry then, now hes more carry/support.
Ironically, orchid Clinkz is good for morph because you can silence him BEFORE he starts spamming strength. Plus, with his ult up and fire arrows you will be hitting hard.
I never considered CK all that strong, it surprised me to see he was a popular ban lately. His lane phase is absolutely dangerous, and he's a fairly reliable stun since you're not likely to burn him down, and his blinkstrike is great, but, his ultimate dies off too easily and it's too easy to just walk away from him. All of his damage happens in the two seconds he has you stunned/blink strikes his images to you so if you survive that he's out of the fight. He got 325 movespeed, like other high movespeed heroes, because he absolutely needs it to be balanced. Says a lot about him, imo.
Poision sting could be still somewhat potent and will provide you more personal dmg than even Drow's aura for quite a while. not to mention it comes with a 14% slow and is not a unique attack modifier. it's a free 140 dmg over 7 secs. I'm not particularly ecstatic, but i'm not complaining either.
heck, if you really want to harrass, you could buy an early orb of venom. I'm not reccomending it, but 12 dmg for 350 isn't that bad. not sure how you were spening your gold anyways.
tried with early orb of venom you mean?
In any case, I can't say i believe it be strong as before or enough for a gauranteed lv3 FB. I really haven't even tried it personally. but it is still quite a lot of harass if you maintain it. coupled with gale, there is definitely FB opportunities or pushing out of lane. just not as strong.
There's sometimes quite a benefit with dots as well, and especially among inexperienced players who miss-estimate exactly when they're in danger. lvling gale could be useful as your mostly slow siegeing and it provides some "burst".
Last edited by Sorx; 2012-09-05 at 09:41 PM.
CK's laning phase is dangerous in the sense that he has no escape mechanism but that makes him a good choice for a babysit/supported lane, and while he has no escape mechanism, he has the advantage of being a STR hero, which means a naturally high HP pool. I don't see him as easy to escape from, but I'm not looking at it from an "a wild Chaos Knight appears!" viewpoint, I'm looking at it from a "CK and his team are pushing, you must defend" viewpoint, where his stun can be stacked with other disables while he's doing enormous damage to you. If he blinks with his ulti up at level 16+, it's basically a free ward trap and you're pretty much guaranteed to die unless you happen to have an Earthshaker handy to blink on top of everyone and echo slam the illusions to death immediately. Illusions are also ridiculously good for taking down structures, making CK a viable back door option (not as good as Clinkz but no one is as good as Clinkz at that except maybe a hard carry Profit with Deso.)
I wouldn't call CK a priority ban, not like fucking Naga, but he's a pretty high-tier hero (I think most people put him on the second tier, below the game-breakers like Naga, Lycan, Profit, etc) and is also very easy to play, like most STR carries. He's a hero you could give to a relatively weak player on your team without endangering your team's chances of winning - his stun is one of the best in the game (stormbolt that lasts at least 2 sec and up to 4 sec) and he doesn't really need items to start stomping people in the midgame; just treads, armlet, maybe drums. All very cheap items, and his illusions at least partially reduce his reliance on BKB since it's a Mirror Image type illusion spell, and even if you disable the real CK, his illusions still do full damage. Armlet provides enormous survivability if you're able to use it properly (free 665 HP heal every 7 sec.)
Related to LoL: Any idea if Valve has plans of expanding Dota beyond the simple 5v5 format once Dota 2 goes live? I'd really love to see Valve's take on the Dominion playstyle. I really think Riot nailed something there with that gamemode, just a shame they decided to continue focusing on their shitty "we wish this was Dota" Dota clone mode.
I meant dangerous for enemies, nothing is funnier than blinking someone into tower range and then LOL4SECONDSTUN.
Meh you have to be pretty close for that to happen. It's more frustrating to eat a 4 sec stun, pop wand and get away... and then ROFLBLINK. Because he needs extremely high base movespeed, a fantastic stun, AND a fucking blinkstrike, yeah?
Just lost to a 4 stack that backdoored with Profit. The only creeps that should count for removing backdoor protection are lane creeps. If you can't win without fucking cheesing, you don't deserve to win at all. But whatever - they had to pick Profit to win versus 5 randoms and they ONLY won because Profit backdoored for 10 minutes straight.
Come to think of it, why are 4 stacks matched vs randoms anyway? Shouldn't that many players queuing together get matched against other 4 or 5 stacks?
And now I have a game with 3 Brazilians on my team, all of whom immediately start feeding and insulting everyone, and I have to suffer through another 20-30 minutes of this or I get penalized for not wanting my time wasted.
Why in the fuck are people allowed to queue for servers outside their region in public MM? I can understand for private games, but why are people who don't even speak the primary language of the server being allowed on that server, especially when they have their own goddamned server?
Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-09-06 at 02:04 AM.
[/COLOR]backdoor is not illegal its part of the game so is cheese
http://blog.dota2.com/2010/11/dota-2-qa/
Q: Can I still play with my friends from America even though I am European? (by Adam Mosley)
A: Yes, a lot of people have friends in different regions and we want to allow them to easily interact. One of the things that makes DotA special is how big the community is, so we will do our best to make it easy to connect and communicate with one another.
I dont understand why people in Dota2 are so freaking bad at picking I only play SD because i like that mode. Always played it in HoN aswell.
But in Dota2 there is ALWAYS 1 ranged wich makes laning retarded. And there are 1/10 that buy wards when supporting.
I'll try to explain what I meant. For the sake of the argument, let's at least assume the following are true:
1) Carry tiny can be outcarried by a number of heroes. Although his ultimate gives him +150 damage, the attack speed loss is a significant drawback until you have items to counter it, and while Craggy Exterior helps him there are ways to work around that too (BKB to mention one) and although the +5 armor is nice it barely makes up for his awful base armor and agility gain. Obviously staying at range works too, but it's not easy to build a fair comparison between him and a ranged hero.
Which leads us to: 2) Ignoring (carry) Tiny's early-mid potential to farm him up isn't a good idea because you could have just picked a better carry to do that. Unless you meant to mislead the enemy team in drafting.
3) To stay relevant in a fight and in the game, Tiny needs additional mobility and/or initiation power on top of the MS gain from his ultimate.
So now we'll consider 2 different ways to build a Tiny. You can aim for very high early-mid ganking and map contol potential and get items like Blink, Force Staff, Drums, Arcane Boots, Bottle, Urn. You might dominate early game, but the roaming and your items choices will probably result in you being level 16 and noticing you need a good 100 IAS to actually hit hard (or to hit more than once every 2 seconds.) You can buy a Hyperstone and work your way towards AC, but if the enemy has a carry that scraped enough farm despite your dominance, you probably can't beat him. And in a teamfight you're still very easy to CC and focus down after you jump in unless you have a BKB, and if you have that your IAS is going to be in even more dire state.
Or you'll invest into full carry items from the beginning to keep up with the enemy carry, getting Treads or Phases, working toward a fast AC and Aghanims and maybe Manta. However you can't really gank, and any activity drains you of most of your mana (and possibly health) pool and you'll have to suffer downtime or just remain useless for a good while. And even if you get good farm, you might still struggle being relevant in fights, especially in the mid-game, where you either have good enough IAS to deal damage or you still risk getting locked down before you get anything done.
Which brings us back to looking what exactly Ehome did. Tiny and Wisp on safe lane, Tiny rushing Phase Boots which allows them to dive enemy heroes deep into T2 towers. Tiny builds Phase Boots into Yasha > Manta and Aghanims, becoming fastest stone giant around with Tether. No Blink, no FS, not even a Hyperstone (until after Aghs) but everything works like a charm because you have Tether, Overcharge and Relocate on top of Wisp taking care of your sustainment with his Bottle and Urn. And obviously, the synergy between LaNm and X was very solid and probably a result of at least some practice.
Slightly unrelated, but Tiny did infact lose to Morphling once. Ehome played Tiny in 5 games, first time against iG in group stages and they lost it. Ehome however obviously had a lot of faith in this strategy, repeating it in game 2 and winning and then winning the next 3 times they picked Tiny until iG banned it against them in LB and eliminated them.
So I wasn't really impressed just by the fact that they succeeded in carrying games with Tiny, but the overall sophistication of the strategy they used and how it appeared to be heavily underestimated by their opponents.
Manni | paragon.fi!