[Megathread] DotA 2

[Finear]

Tree has the best winrate of all heroes. Irony?

can someone explain to me why ? 0o
i understand lycan
and ursa
and lich
but tree?!

[Deleted]

Played my first game of Meepo today

Went 11/6/8, game ended in 33 minutes. Meepo is a lot of fun, but way too stressful for me to play on a regular basis, call me a casual. The game was mainly won by our Enigma who had one 5-man Black Hole after another throughout the game. I felt like I was playing the piano after I hit level 16, I can't imagine what it will be like with Scepter Meepo too.

I really enjoy Meepo though, I'll be honest. He is a very... different hero. His voice acting is great too, it feels great ganging up on one enemy hero caught out with all of your Meepos. Gotta give some more credit to that Enigma though. 5-man Black Hole, proceed to "Poof" spam, get rampage, win game.

[Finear]

i was just forced to play WR mid and damn quick phase boots and force staff helps soooo much getting these double shackles <3

[PizzaSHARK]

Lysah you should be excited about the 6.75 notes. They're buffing the crap out of Gyro, looks like.

[Nightfury Treann]

Lysah you should be excited about the 6.75 notes. They're buffing the crap out of Gyro, looks like.

huh?! what are they gonna do to the Gyro?

[Lysah]

but tree?!

I'm not really sure either. I consider him highly superior to Tide defensively, but it's rare to see someone play him well. It doesn't feel like I see him win much but when I check my friend's records with him they're all 60-70% wins.

@pizza
I'm pretty sure Gyro is already the highest burst AoE of any carry by far, what more does he really need? >_>

[PizzaSHARK]

huh?! what are they gonna do to the Gyro?

Two things that really stood out are he's going to 315 base speed from 305 and his missile will provide vision of the target the entire time.

---------- Post added 2012-09-22 at 02:18 AM ----------

I'm not really sure either. I consider him highly superior to Tide defensively, but it's rare to see someone play him well. It doesn't feel like I see him win much but when I check my friend's records with him they're all 60-70% wins.

@pizza
I'm pretty sure Gyro is already the highest burst AoE of any carry by far, what more does he really need? >_>

Yeah I've never seen a good answer to Tree's unusually high win rate. He just seems like a crappy version of Tidehunter to me. The only thing that would make sense to me is Tree's team using his invisibility constantly and pubs being too stupid to ward or buy dust.

EDIT: What is the reason for Omniknight and Leoric no longer seeing use? Were they just popular due to a more limited hero roster?

[Lysah]

Tree forces enemy team to waste gold on true sight without the drawback of being a wasted carry pick when they do. Leech seed is a VERY strong move in general, especially early game, and his ult is the ultimate hard carry counter. Yes, you can BKB out of it, but you can't just hold your BKB forever and let supports like Rubick stunfuck you all day. So you use your BKB to go in and try to clear the support out real fast so you don't get chainstunned - ROFLROOTS wasted BKB dead PA.

Tide is an initiator, Tree is a counter initiator. They have different roles. Of course you're going to get called a noob if you use roots before anyone has used his BKB in a fight.

I'm not sure why omni/leo aren't common picks these days. Most lineups are ranged oriented, the current professional scene is all about focus poking for kills and retreating during cooldowns, doesn't give you a lot of room for aggressive heroes like leo/omni.

[PizzaSHARK]

Tree forces enemy team to waste gold on true sight without the drawback of being a wasted carry pick when they do. Leech seed is a VERY strong move in general, especially early game, and his ult is the ultimate hard carry counter. Yes, you can BKB out of it, but you can't just hold your BKB forever and let supports like Rubick stunfuck you all day. So you use your BKB to go in and try to clear the support out real fast so you don't get chainstunned - ROFLROOTS wasted BKB dead PA.

Tide is an initiator, Tree is a counter initiator. They have different roles. Of course you're going to get called a noob if you use roots before anyone has used his BKB in a fight.

I'm not sure why omni/leo aren't common picks these days. Most lineups are ranged oriented, the current professional scene is all about focus poking for kills and retreating during cooldowns, doesn't give you a lot of room for aggressive heroes like leo/omni.

I've never gotten a really straight answer on why a hero would rise up or fall down without changes to the game itself; just because a given team discovered a gimmick that took other teams off guard doesn't mean that new gimmick is the best way to play, or that the previous ways of playing have somehow been invalidated.

---------- Post added 2012-09-22 at 11:32 AM ----------



https://dotabuff.com/matches/42832766

Enemy Profit going full on carry build, spending the entire game farming tells me as a hard support KotL (leaving creep waves and jungle for teammates) to "get carried" as we kill their ancient. Scorecard? This Profit has like 370 gpm. As a full support KotL playing as a 5, I have 320. Get carried, huh?

[Nightfury Treann]

That missile vision is kinda OP, it's like tracking with a Slardar or BH.

[PizzaSHARK]

That missile vision is kinda OP, it's like tracking with a Slardar or BH.

I don't think it's gonna be true sight. The notes I was reading was saying it was like revision 17 of 34? I haven't been able to find notes that have a more recent source, though.

The notes in general are a fucking mess, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to where given changes go, they definitely aren't grouped by hero.

[Finear]

leaked patch notes were (most likely) for internal tests only

[hellgrazer]

i really want to see some morphling nerfs...

[Hermanni]

i really want to see some morphling nerfs...

If they give Morphling anything other than minor number nerfs, he'll probably go back to never being picked again in competitive games faster than you can say trend shift. I'd be sad, it wasn't long ago when I cheered for Morphling every game he was picked in in Joindota Masters after a long dry period.

It's probably just me but I don't think almost any heroes really need nerfs, just looking forward to seeing some (Clockwerk) buffed and how the map changes play out.

[Finear]

It's probably just me but I don't think almost any heroes really need nerfs, just looking forward to seeing some (Clockwerk) buffed and how the map changes play out.

yeah im also expecting buffs of underplayed heroes

its funny how ppl scream morph OP while not so long ago he was trash pick

[Lysah]

I've never gotten a really straight answer on why a hero would rise up or fall down without changes to the game itself; just because a given team discovered a gimmick that took other teams off guard doesn't mean that new gimmick is the best way to play, or that the previous ways of playing have somehow been invalidated.

You might recall how I've explained that pros do NOT try new things in tournaments when money is on the line. DotA is pretty balanced, no hero is really that much better than any other, and every playstyle has a counter. You can stop wolf from jungling, in fact, a while back wolf was a joke pick in competitive play for this reason. AM has also gone through his joke pick phase, as well as morphling, as has been said.

Although, morphling didn't used to get free stats from learning morph, which is the main change that took him from "meh" to "GG they picked morph." His ability to farm used to be anywhere from low to extremely terrible and he was shut down in lane by a number of heroes. Now he just morphs agility at level 3 and has 90 damage, he can just morph strength the second he gets jumped on. Silence needs to turn morph strength off and I'll be happy.

Heroes like Tiny have been huge in the past, and you saw how quickly he got banned in TI2 when he got used again. It's not really about gimmicks, think of it this way. DotA is a giant game a rock, paper, scissors. Currently, the pros have rock down to an art. They both pick rock and they see who can be a better rock. When someone figures out how to play paper, they're going to start crushing rock over and over and over. You think the old rock players are going to start playing scissors? Nope, they're going to start copying paper and trying to simply be a better paper. Trying to come up with new strategies in the middle of tournaments is how you lose a lot of money.

Heroes like Invoker will probably always be huge picks because they aren't really countered. Carries will come and go, however, as will supports. Hybrids are generally just too good at what they do to ever be bad picks by definition. Support carries are incredibly popular right now, but they always will be to some degree, just because the concept of someone who can put out consistent and reliable CC while also doing damage is exactly what you need to do to secure kills.

[Kaynot]

Heroes like Tiny have been huge in the past, and you saw how quickly he got banned in TI2 when he got used again. It's not really about gimmicks, think of it this way. DotA is a giant game a rock, paper, scissors. Currently, the pros have rock down to an art. They both pick rock and they see who can be a better rock. When someone figures out how to play paper, they're going to start crushing rock over and over and over. You think the old rock players are going to start playing scissors? Nope, they're going to start copying paper and trying to simply be a better paper. Trying to come up with new strategies in the middle of tournaments is how you lose a lot of money.

I have to disagree here, most of the pro teams(esp chinese) do indeed draft only from the certain hero pool, but there are plenty of teams who come up with their own thing like Na´vi did with Juggernaut and Void picks during TI2.
Or for example Axe was picked several times before TI2, during Defense or Dreamcast im not sure which one anymore.But every once in a while teams do draft unusually.


On topic of Omni, during one of the talkdota´s someone asked Puppey why he wasnt picked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Q0AW0xRNk 08:20

[Lysah]

You still don't see SB much.

[Demidov]

How do you guys deal with the amount of russians lately? I'm not saying every one of them is a bad player, but when I go out for a match, I usually get put in a russian team where the guy calls mid before he even picks, proceeds to feed and just talks and swears in russian with another-two russians, thinking people understand them.

[Janir]

Lastly, the game is really slow in comparison to the Hon/LoL. Heroes have long turn times, spells don't cast instantly, and it feels sluggish and slowed down. This used to be a good thing, but after playing HoN competitively for 2 years it is tough going back.

This is the reason why I don't enjoy it as much as HoN or LoL