[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

>Lion.
>Lina.
>Not supports.

You what, mate.

[Jangri-]

Lion does need some more levels than average support to be entirely effective, but yea, can be played as one np.

[llDemonll]

SB would be a great pick if he fit into the meta better, and wasn't hard countered by magic immunity. MoM is really common on him, but in my opinion it's a lot better to get a quick BKB after the essentials so they can't stop you from charging them, and then follow that up with a Mjollnir for some magic damage, some AOE for pushing/counterpushing, and the attack speed. Maelstrom's really cheap so it could be a midway item to get between your essentials and finishing BKB.

B-b-b-b-b-but.....I love SB in pubs! And I even let Pudge mid

I also like to think I play a decent Dazzle

With SB I wasn't sure what to build because usually I don't have an excess amount of gold so after I had MoM, boots, and Assault Curiass I built Yasha for the Atk speed and then had 2.5k so built Sange for the hell of it, then Sacred Relic was very last because I had extra money and needed to get rid of it

[PizzaSHARK]

Except that neither Lina or Lion are supports.
And Lina hasn't got a particularly reliable stun.

wut

Lion and Lina are supports, and Lina was used several times in TI2, even up into the winners bracket matches and I think even the grand finals.

---------- Post added 2012-09-25 at 11:05 AM ----------

B-b-b-b-b-but.....I love SB in pubs! And I even let Pudge mid

I also like to think I play a decent Dazzle

With SB I wasn't sure what to build because usually I don't have an excess amount of gold so after I had MoM, boots, and Assault Curiass I built Yasha for the Atk speed and then had 2.5k so built Sange for the hell of it, then Sacred Relic was very last because I had extra money and needed to get rid of it

MoM isn't worth having without a BKB... any competent team will just immediately focus you the second they see the animation. Void can get away with it (kinda) due to Chronosphere but even then it's not ideal. You're much better off buying an early hyperstone for attack speed; between it and treads you'll have plenty of attack speed and the hyperstone will build into Mjollnir or Cuirass later.

Yasha isn't really a good buy on SB because he's not really a hero that benefits hugely from Manta Style, since his main role is stunlocking people and illusions thankfully can't proc his stuns. Sange is a good pick to build into Heaven's Halberd, since it makes you much tankier and allows you to completely screw the enemy carry once their BKB is down. Sange and Yasha is an item you should never build, it's far too expensive for the weak benefits it provides. If you want Manta Style, you build Manta Style and don't even bother with a Sange. If you want Heaven's Halberd, there's no reason to waste money on a Yasha.

Late game you usually want to hang onto money for buyback if you can afford it, especially if you're the carry or playing a critical role like anti-push and your being alive is the only reason they can't push rax successfully (see: Keeper of the Light.) Otherwise I would've gone for durability over damage; SB's role past in the late game is to pick some unfortunate victim on the enemy team and keep them stunned until the cows come home, and the harder you are to kill, the better you can fulfill that role (which is also why BKB is so crucial for him; you can't stunlock someone if you're too busy being a chicken.)

[Hermanni]

Lion and Lina can be supports, but neither has to be. Lion is pretty awful as a hard support actually, that guy deserves a solo lane. I hate it when people think heroes can only fill or have been designed to fill only one role.

Also, being support isn't just wardbitching alone. As support you're essential to your team's map control and responsible for setting up ganks and pushes, pressuring multiple lanes and counter-initiating enemy aggression. Your abilities aren't limited to your items (which is the defining trait of a good support hero) so you can do a lot in late-game teamfights - Even very late in a long game a great Nether Swap can end a game or a naked Shadow Demon can duel and kill the enemy carry. A few cheap items combined with good positioning can also make you very hard to kill for even the most fed carry.

[Toxigen]

TLDR: Supports in LoL are weakasfuck.

Yeah, no...sorry - but you have very little idea of what you're talking about when it comes to what a support can do. It may not necessarily come from damage...but CC, sustain, damage buffs, etc can be just as important.

I main support in my organized 5s team and I can say with utmost confidence that we are not "weakasfuck." In fact, I am often a key/deciding factor in winning a given team fight.

If you're speaking strictly team fight damage, then sure...I'll give you that one (albeit weak and at times...pointless).

[Deleted]

Yeah, no...sorry - but you have very little idea of what you're talking about when it comes to what a support can do. It may not necessarily come from damage...but CC, sustain, damage buffs, etc can be just as important.

I main support in my organized 5s team and I can say with utmost confidence that we are not "weakasfuck." In fact, I am often a key/deciding factor in winning a given team fight.

What is your DotA experience?

[Kuntantee]

Supports with reliable stuns can always match a carry without one depending on items. See what a guinsoo/eth/dagon 5/scepter/refresher Lina or Lion can do to a carry some day. Will anyone ever farm that in game? No...but that doesn't mean supports can't be retarded strong late game, they just aren't. Because they don't need to be. A Lion with all of that might be able to do 18,000 damage to somebody before they can even fight back but it doesn't matter, he will do relatively piss damage to towers compared to a Slithice of the same gold.

yeah right...

[cudomix]

Never underestimate burst and control of Lion/Lina, especially with scythe. Lina's stun is hard to use for a reason, it deals good damage, and has extremely low cd, so you need a slow, stun or cc before it. And while Lion could use xp from solo lane, he works extremely well with any lane partner, and in double stun lane you can easily go for first blood at lvl 2 or 3.

Also, regarding supports, point of dota is to win the game, and good support makes his entire team better by warding, buying chicken, and all stuff that are sadly neglected with "solo mid PLS" people out here Personally, i get much more satisfaction from great teamplay, than 20-0 kill ratio.

Last but not least, most support heroes are extremely item independent, so you can easily fill a hole/niche your team needs without any impact on your build order, i find flexibility extremely fun.

PS. Dazzle for life^^

[Deleted]

Why should that matter? You said supports in LoL are weakasfuck. You didn't say they were weaker than dota supports so dota experience is irrelevant there

A support in DotA is, in early to mid, comparative or better than a carry.
A support in LoL is, in early to mid, still weaker than any other member on the team. (With special exceptions like pre-6 WW, arguably Poppy, etc)

I said supports were weak because supports are weak, they absolutely cannot hold their own. I asked about his DotA experience because frankly LoL support players seem to be completely unaware of the difference in powerlevels between the games.

[Finear]

Soon
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...59804926_o.jpg

[Deleted]

I don't know if this is working as intended but had two frustratring moments:
1) Was QoP and with BkB activated Silencer's ulti went trough my BkB
2) Used Hex on a Clinkz and he was able to go INVIS right after.
Apart from that the game is awesome, to bad I meet so many bad players which ruin my mood completly and makes me stop playing for few days after which I start again.

[Deleted]

1) Several ultimates go through magic immunity, GS included apparently.
2) Stealth in general have fadetimes. Clinkz has one of 0.6 so you can hex him while he's still "getting stealthed."

[Finear]

1) Several ultimates go through magic immunity, GS included apparently.

http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Magic_...magic_immunity

[PizzaSHARK]

Ugh, remind me to never again play support Profit in pubs. I swear it's like you don't use ulti to push/farm so your teammates can have the farm and you build support items and then your teammates never fucking come through on their end of the deal.

Now I understand why every Profit in pubs always goes carry mode.

[llDemonll]

^this. Carry Prophet in pubs is just too OP; not nearly enough people know/can shut him down once he's got Deso and from there he just gets more and more farmed

[Deleted]

Just played Chen for the first time, went 11/0/10, game ended in 27 minutes.

I could definitely get used to this guy, his entire kit is amazing, the only one I find less useful is Test of Faith, mainly because of the random factor of it. It has its ups and downs.

How do you guys usually build Chen? I started with Ring of Protection, Wards and some regen, ganked at level 2 with a centaur, got RoB and Boots, ganked again, and again, then got mek and then ganked mid. Once I had my full congregation of squirrels and critters I started pushing lanes and went for Aghanim's. Anything I am doing terribly wrong?

[Valedus]

Just played Chen for the first time, went 11/0/10, game ended in 27 minutes.

I could definitely get used to this guy, his entire kit is amazing, the only one I find less useful is Test of Faith, mainly because of the random factor of it. It has its ups and downs.

How do you guys usually build Chen? I started with Ring of Protection, Wards and some regen, ganked at level 2 with a centaur, got RoB and Boots, ganked again, and again, then got mek and then ganked mid. Once I had my full congregation of squirrels and critters I started pushing lanes and went for Aghanim's. Anything I am doing terribly wrong?

If you don't think you are going to have the money income, Mek is a good substitute for aghs, but no, thats perfect. Even with the randomness, it's still a pretty decent nuke. The only problem I have with him is he falls prey to the enemy warding your jungle (which they should if the other team has a Chen, no fighting magnataurs at level 2).

[PizzaSHARK]

If you don't think you are going to have the money income, Mek is a good substitute for aghs, but no, thats perfect. Even with the randomness, it's still a pretty decent nuke. The only problem I have with him is he falls prey to the enemy warding your jungle (which they should if the other team has a Chen, no fighting magnataurs at level 2).

Yeah, but even if you ward the centaur camps he can still get a wildkin or a troll chieftain :-/

---------- Post added 2012-09-27 at 04:10 AM ----------

http://dotaholic.com/

Apparently it's a new website, seems to be trying to be like Wowhead for Dota 2. The guide layouts are very, very nice, though unfortunately all the guides I've looked at are either just copypasta of in-game recommended items with no explanation, or are garbage (like a Doomy build that specifies Vanguard, then Heart, then Radiance.)

[Deleted]

So i decided to read through last few pages. Some posts gave me some chuckle and there were few decent posts too. So i'll throw in my 0.02$ here.

First of all i'm ex-hon players that never played first dota in my life (maybe once or twice), lack of proper hot-keying and just didn't have the interest , during WC3 times i was just sticking with TD's and Vamps.

Started playing ARTS/Mobas with very early HoN beta ~09 august or so. I have currently 1500 hours played since last years november, used to be ~1800mmr pre-compression that happened not that long ago.

Reading posts about Lina/Lion , Lion can be great hard support especially in proper lanes, sure both heroes can be played diffrently as gankers/solo too, but i'd say Lina has way too awful attack animation comparing to pyros in HoN and all can come down to who you have to lane against (asuming similar skill levels).

Regarding posts about comparing supports in LoL and Dota. As already mentioned supports will often lose their momentum mid-game once again assuming it's not complete stomp when support has farmed his sheepstick/forcestaff/mek while warding 25 minutes into the game. One of LoL posters mentioned that "Lol supportz bring buffs/... etc instead of damage" , well in Dota there are supports that will bring them too while being more useful than almost any carry early/mid game opposite of lol.

The guy crying oh noes i play RD/SD and they get lycan/naga - ward their pull and weak camp and it's almost sure that lycans farm if he still decides to go woods is fucked, if he lanes - just outlane him.


Few pages back post regarding Morph - sure he wasn't that popular, he might be now just due to trends changing and teams picking him up in tourneys.

Why omni has barely seen any comp play lately? Because often especialy western teams likes playing agressive support heroes, sure once again trends might changed and he might get picked up more often in future.


Community comments - b.please, grow a pair 'x player/hero noob' is not harassment, it's just some minor trolling. Also god i love that there's no concede and doubt there will be any in future, that thing ruined so many games in HoN, because some bads just decide to give up when there's still big chance of winning.



Also as someone already said ppl saying 'i dont belong in mmr, my winrate is low cuz my teams suck - well yes it's you might get a bad team once in a while, but over time bad team number=/=good teammate numbers. So thats just pathethic excuse for bads.