1. #2981
    I love ganking CM as TA. Good times.

  2. #2982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I can personally guarantee if you face me as CM, it doesn't matter what hero I am, you will feed. She really is just that easy to kill. The only games I've seen CM do well in were because her team was already dominating. Like I said, she is strong in lane, for all of about 10 minutes. A roaming CM can be powerful but wards immediately counter it and with her absurdly slow movespeed if she walks across the map and fails to get kills she is DEFINITELY going to have a horrible game now that she's level 2 when everyone else is 7.

    My opinion is like this - if you want to end the game quickly, you pick heroes like Leshrac who can actually help a push. If you want the game to last 60 minutes pick heroes like Lich.
    It seems like there's no reason to pick CM anymore when Jakiro is arguably even more dangerous at level 2 than she is without her weaknesses. In a related note, I got around to playing Rubick yesterday and god he feels so much weaker than he used to be, losing 10 move speed really made a huge difference. He was already squishier than CM to begin with, but made up for it by being considerably faster. Now he's only 5 speed faster but doesn't have her slows to reduce incoming damage with. Rubick absolutely needed a nerf and I'd call him balanced for lack of a better description, but it seems like if Spell Steal was the issue (and it was), why not just nerf Spell Steal somehow instead?

    Dirge feels a hell of a lot better than he was before. I don't think the zombie buff is significant other than keeping them relevant against tanky heroes with lots of HP, but the Decay buff is pretty amazing... so much easier to tag 2+ heroes with one cast now.

    But I'm not really sure what to get on him anymore. Vanguard just seems to be useless when Armlet is so damn good now, but since arcane boots are usual core on him, I've been wondering about just getting Bloodstone on him. He's always in the middle of fights and he needs the mana and mana regen to be able to spam Decay on cooldown. Maybe disassemble boots to make a quick bloodstone and then add in a casual cloak and casual platemail for later items like pipe/shiva?

    Is scepter worth getting on him? Seems like a pretty huge investment for only 5% more damage and a little extra incoming healing. Thinking the money would be better spent on a BKB so you can always be sure you can stay on top of people during your ulti and be sure you can always pop off some Decays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  3. #2983
    I agree, Jakiro is definitely a super CM now. Ice path is far better than anything she can do. Her nova beats dual breath in speed but that's about the only advantage she has on him where he is much tankier, has a way better CC, and an ultimate that actually does something.

    Dirge is great, it's funny that decay became so good it made soul rip not worth putting points into until level like 16. I see energy boots > vanguard/hood depending on enemy heroes > shivas as pretty standard. Scepter is a solid pick for him, he definitely runs out of mana quickly in any situation and can always use the health as well. Bloodstone might not be bad but I still see scepter as better for just about any hero who can use it. It gives nearly the same survivability and buffs the ultimate as well. Bloodstone is specifically for heroes who need *massive* mana regen, Dirge just needs a big mana pool.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-10-20 at 07:13 AM.

  4. #2984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I agree, Jakiro is definitely a super CM now. Ice path is far better than anything she can do. Her nova beats dual breath in speed but that's about the only advantage she has on him where he is much tankier, has a way better CC, and an ultimate that actually does something.

    Dirge is great, it's funny that decay became so good it made soul rip not worth putting points into until level like 16. I see energy boots > vanguard/hood depending on enemy heroes > shivas as pretty standard. Scepter is a solid pick for him, he definitely runs out of mana quickly in any situation and can always use the health as well. Bloodstone might not be bad but I still see scepter as better for just about any hero who can use it. It gives nearly the same survivability and buffs the ultimate as well. Bloodstone is specifically for heroes who need *massive* mana regen, Dirge just needs a big mana pool.
    I usually max Soul Rip after Tombstone, Decay is just way too damned expensive for 80% of the game if you put more than 1 point into it... 130 mana every 4 sec on Dirge's pathetic mana pool is brutal. The idea behind Bloodstone is that Dirge would make really good use of its other passives since he's in the middle of fights... he'd gain XP for things that die after he dies, and he'd be around his team so the heal would also come into play.

    I don't bother with Vanguard anymore, Armlet's way too overpowered with its recent buffs to not pick it up. Damage, health, armor, and one of the most ridiculous ability "exploits" in the game. Amazingly hard to kill someone that's toggling properly.

    Scepter just seems like a lot of cash for not a lot of gains. Maybe if the creep kill heal got more than a lousy 1% increase... I'd rather put that 4300 into something like sheepstick that will REALLY help my team out, or maybe a BKB so I can be sure I can sit in that teamfight and get those needed stacks of Decay going before they can rapetrain me into the ground with stuns.

    I actually saw an interesting build where they didn't take ulti until level 8... max tombstone and get 2 points in soul rip and then take ulti at 8, gives you a potential 250 HP heal to play with. Not sure if that's better or not, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  5. #2985
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I can personally guarantee if you face me as CM, it doesn't matter what hero I am, you will feed. She really is just that easy to kill.
    My playstyle is fairly selfless so I won't say I'd never die, but I seriously doubt I'd feed. Surviving is mostly a matter of positioning and judgement and when you've got a hang of those it's pretty easy to bait enemy into overextending to just to take an easy kill on a lowly CM. I haven't played that much CM in Dota 2, probably just 30-40 games, but I'm sure I've won most of them and in HoN I was usually getting friend requests when I was playing Glacius.

  6. #2986
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    My playstyle is fairly selfless so I won't say I'd never die, but I seriously doubt I'd feed. Surviving is mostly a matter of positioning and judgement and when you've got a hang of those it's pretty easy to bait enemy into overextending to just to take an easy kill on a lowly CM. I haven't played that much CM in Dota 2, probably just 30-40 games, but I'm sure I've won most of them and in HoN I was usually getting friend requests when I was playing Glacius.
    I disagree with Lysah saying she's a garbage pick, but I do have to wonder why you'd choose CM over Jakiro now that Jakiro's so buff. They really need to get off their butts and make Arcane Aura useful for all phases of the game. Maybe flat mana regen bonus combined with an INT bonus for your team? Dunno.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  7. #2987
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I disagree with Lysah saying she's a garbage pick, but I do have to wonder why you'd choose CM over Jakiro now that Jakiro's so buff.
    because shes fun hero
    and everyone underestimate her, pick ulti at lvl6 and you can really surprise enemies
    also while i loved jakiro in dota 1 i lost all my games in dota2 im not going to pick him even after this huge buff :3
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-10-20 at 11:47 AM.

  8. #2988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    because shes fun hero
    and everyone underestimate her, pick ulti at lvl6 and you can really surprise enemies
    also while i loved jakiro in dota 1 i lost all my games in dota2 im not going to pick him even after this huge buff :3
    Her ulti is really strong, but it's situational. You're gonna have a hard time positioning it and even if they don't stun you can still get gibbed pretty fast at that level. I'll probably start taking it at 8 or 9 though, maybe earlier if I skip aura entirely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  9. #2989
    aura is useless
    nova>frostbite>frostbite>frostbite>frostbite>ulti and you are fuckin monster !

  10. #2990
    Deleted
    Hm, has anyone ever tried using the Force Staff to get on one of the pillars and then casting Nether Swap on an enemy as Vengeful Spirit?

  11. #2991
    Last time i played her (and it was long time ago), dagger+BKB were her standard items, and couple of bracers if needed, due to horrendous attack animation she's terrible farmer, so eul is hard to get on her. You should go double stun lane and go for FB with frostbite early, but in lategame items do same thing she does (shiva=nova, guinsoo=frostbite), so outside of ulti she's a liability, as Lysah repeatedly likes to point out^^ Also, her ulti is hard to aim properly, as i recall explosions are random, with higher chance of occurring along diagonal axes based on direction she's facing (you can either decimate enemy team, or it will be useless).

  12. #2992
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    stuff
    Decay heals you as much as soul rip does when you're spamming it on 2-3 heroes, which is what makes the buff to decay so good. Soul rip is a spell you get to heal other people, or if they have a hero like QoP who you might need to nuke when she blinks away with 10 hp. Otherwise, with flesh golem up, You can run around doing nothing but spamming decay and kill people in 3 or 4 hits. Pretty funny hero now.

    @CM
    Pretty hard to bait people when Slardar can run up to you, stun you, then kill you in one or two auto attacks tops with amp up. Want to fix CM for me? Toss her 10-15 movespeed, 50 base health, and make her ultimate do damage over time so that you can calculate how much it will hurt enemies, instead of "random explosions that might hit the enemy 0 times in full duration." As it stands, frostbite is an imposter stun and heroes like Drow will still kill you with their orb, nova is good but not great, aura is horrible, freezing field is horrible. Want to slow someone and have great lane support? Pick Tide instead. Where CM drops off after 20 minutes and the game becomes 4v5, Tide is a hero you have to worry about no matter how hard you're winning.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-10-20 at 08:39 PM.

  13. #2993
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    Aura really needs a boost of some kind. Maybe +1-4 mana regen and global +2-8 INT for the team or something? It needs to be powerful enough to make it worth taking over her other skills. 4 mana regen and an extra 8 INT for your team would be pretty significant, maybe significant enough to warrant leveling it over nova.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  14. #2994
    Still wouldn't see much use I don't think. Mana is not an important resource in this game. You engage a skirmish and you blow your abilities and that's it, you kill or die and from there everyone heals up and does it again. Very seldom do heroes need mana and are not buying mana/regen items for themselves. CM is already so weak skipping the damage/CC on her two nukes is definitely suicide unless they can make her aura so insanely powerful that she is worth a pick just to help the other four heroes.

    As it stands right now, the mana regen she provides early game is maybe a whole one extra spell per person on your team by level 6. Fantastic. They replaced Tree's aura and health/armor is actually a great addition to the team, so I'm not sure why CM is left so weak.

  15. #2995
    Aura is remnant of the old days when mana regen was much more stringent -no arcane boots, only void stone provided enhanced mana regen, sobi was fixed regen back then, Basillus pushed creeps toward so it was rarely made etc. Today, with boots, bottle, courier and clarities she's been left in the dust as more items, abilities and heroes were added. Today, in era of versatile heroes, she's simply too limited and lacks any lategame potential (outside of RNG ulti, which requires dagger+BKB) to be truly useful in a game.

  16. #2996
    - Brilliance Aura has twice the effect on Crystal Maiden
    :3

    http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.76
    wow a lot of reworks and buffs
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-10-21 at 12:37 PM.

  17. #2997
    I really want Centaur to be added to Dota 2.

  18. #2998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    :3

    http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.76
    wow a lot of reworks and buffs
    So 4 mp/sec regen, but only for CM? That's still terrible!

    Silencer Last Word rework is fucking retarded. There's no decision-making or thought process in it because you're fucked either way. It should basically be like Mana Leak - either you keep doing what you were doing and accept the loss or you stop and exchange several seconds of being useless for no penalty down the road.

    NA got a buff that won't do anything but make him even more of a pain in the ass in pubs.

    Naga got a huge nerf to a skill that was fine.

    Doomy got a buff to Doom for... no apparent reason.

    Omniknight got a couple of completely random buffs.

    Rubick got another nerf to something that wasn't overpowered to begin with.

    Just... so many completely random changes here making me wonder what the fuck Icefrog's smoking.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  19. #2999
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Just... so many completely random changes here making me wonder what the fuck Icefrog's smoking.
    I wonder what the fuck you're smoking. We already established you've no idea what you talk about so why question IF and his team. Why comment at all if all you've got is "I don't understand this, ergo these changes must be completely random and made while on drugs."

    Overall good chances, as per usual - I'm now legitimately excited to play CW again. You're not giving enough credit for CM's aura - at max rank it almost equals global Arcane Boots spam for your team. Can easily spare your team several trips to the fountain and completely shift lane balance. 1-1-4-1 Is still my favorite build whenever the mana is useful. As for comparison to Jakiro - CM has 1100 range slow, Jakiro has 1100 range stun that's relatively easy to hit. Neither can be simply labeled as superior in all situations.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-10-21 at 06:09 PM.

  20. #3000
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    I agree with the Silencer changes,they're fine, but the new skill they put in there ... bit OP I think
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