1. #4721
    Sort of a random question...I was talking to a friend of mine, he said Drow is banned at all tournaments, is that true? I know she's banned in captain's mode, and that's what tournaments usually are, is that what he meant? Or is she just straight up banned?

  2. #4722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    Sort of a random question...I was talking to a friend of mine, he said Drow is banned at all tournaments, is that true? I know she's banned in captain's mode, and that's what tournaments usually are, is that what he meant? Or is she just straight up banned?
    Probably the former. I can't imagine a formal tournament not operating with Captain's Mode unless it was specifically something goofy (AtoD, etc.)


    What's the deal with Reverse Polarity? At level 16 it's only .25 sec short of Black Hole's duration, with a wider AOE and it's instant instead of channeled, and it's a full 80 seconds less cooldown, too. What's the balancing factor for it? That it's only a couple of seconds until level 16?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  3. #4723
    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    Sort of a random question...I was talking to a friend of mine, he said Drow is banned at all tournaments, is that true? I know she's banned in captain's mode, and that's what tournaments usually are, is that what he meant? Or is she just straight up banned?
    She is not available in Dota 2 captains mode, she is available in dota 1 captains mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    What's the deal with Reverse Polarity? At level 16 it's only .25 sec short of Black Hole's duration, with a wider AOE and it's instant instead of channeled, and it's a full 80 seconds less cooldown, too. What's the balancing factor for it? That it's only a couple of seconds until level 16?
    Icefraud likes magnus, therefore he is OP
    Thats the only possible explanation
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    Gamon spends more time of his knees and back than haris pilton...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidulgaa View Post
    She is not available in Dota 2 captains mode, she is available in dota 1 captains mode.
    With the same changes? What happened to keeping Dota 2 as close to Dota 1 as possible?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  5. #4725
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Probably the former. I can't imagine a formal tournament not operating with Captain's Mode unless it was specifically something goofy (AtoD, etc.)


    What's the deal with Reverse Polarity? At level 16 it's only .25 sec short of Black Hole's duration, with a wider AOE and it's instant instead of channeled, and it's a full 80 seconds less cooldown, too. What's the balancing factor for it? That it's only a couple of seconds until level 16?
    Compared to Black Hole, Black Hole's damage alone can potentially just about match Magnus' combo (600 damage with ult and Shockwave, compared to a max 560 damage Black Hole), and easily surpass it with Midnight Pulse.

    That's all I've got though, spent a little bit of time looking at both, generally Reverse Polarity looks a lot stronger.

  6. #4726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    Compared to Black Hole, Black Hole's damage alone can potentially just about match Magnus' combo (600 damage with ult and Shockwave, compared to a max 560 damage Black Hole), and easily surpass it with Midnight Pulse.

    That's all I've got though, spent a little bit of time looking at both, generally Reverse Polarity looks a lot stronger.
    Yeah, a Black Hole on top of a pulse is pretty nasty, but that's a lot of setup. I've never really seen anyone go bonkers over the damage a Black Hole does, only the fact that it's got 3-5 of the enemy team stuck in a 4 second stun while your teammates pound them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  7. #4727
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    With the same changes? What happened to keeping Dota 2 as close to Dota 1 as possible?
    Well her impact on the pro scene was minimal, she was picked twice in Wc3 Dota tournaments I believe and lost both times.
    Quote Originally Posted by icylock View Post
    Gamon spends more time of his knees and back than haris pilton...

  8. #4728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidulgaa View Post
    Well her impact on the pro scene was minimal, she was picked twice in Wc3 Dota tournaments I believe and lost both times.
    Current Drow? The Drow that can be hitting creeps for 200 damage a pop at level 6?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  9. #4729
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Current Drow? The Drow that can be hitting creeps for 200 damage a pop at level 6?
    Drow is still waaaaaaay to easy to kill if you have a decent team. She is so squishy that one stun normally will be enough to destroy her. Even later in the game.

  10. #4730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerdozia View Post
    Drow is still waaaaaaay to easy to kill if you have a decent team. She is so squishy that one stun normally will be enough to destroy her. Even later in the game.
    Yeah, I've noticed that. But it seems like with just Daedalus and Helm of the Dominator (or just Lothar's if you want to go supreme super-squishy mode), she can hit enormously hard, and her silence is nearly instant cast. I'd definitely still call her gamebreaking in pubs, dunno about pros. I think she'd have stiff competition from Sniper... they're both squishy ranged heroes, and while Sniper starts off slower, once he has some attack speed to pair with Headshot, his damage can become unreal - permastun from 800+ range with an extra 90 damage on each bash.

    I think the real reason to pick Drow, aside from the excellent silence, is her aura. It can often equal an additional 20-30 damage for your team's ranged supports when she's around level 7-8 (so supports would be around 3-5, depending on if it's a trilane), and that's really nothing to scoff at. She's also great at supporting pushes since 900 AOE is a comfortable range to boost ranged creeps and especially siege creeps with.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2013-01-02 at 11:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  11. #4731
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Current Drow? The Drow that can be hitting creeps for 200 damage a pop at level 6?
    140, assuming Treads, Wraith, 3 Branches, 1-1-3-1 build and active Markmanship. Less on melee creeps, considering the armor. Even Domi and Phases won't get you to 200 before armor.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-01-02 at 12:24 PM.

  12. #4732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    140, assuming Treads, Wraith, 3 Branches, 1-1-3-1 build and active Markmanship. Less on melee creeps, considering the armor. Even Domi and Phases won't get you to 200 before armor.
    Okay, fine; 140, give or take a smidge. At any rate, the second Drow hits 6 she can hit very hard relative to other ranged carries (Sniper won't have the attack speed and OD won't have the levels/stats to enable constant orb spam.) Since she's still squishy, this isn't terribly relevant for fighting unless someone can basically hand her a free kill, but it dramatically improves her farming rate, making it very easy for her to quickly get those items she needs to start smashing faces (probably Manta and/or BKB into a Daedalus if we're talking about comp play, probably just Daedalus and Lothar's for pubs.)

    Honestly, I'm not even sure what makes her so gamebreaking right now. I can only guess IceFrog's team are stymied as well, since they were initially changing her reasonably often and I haven't heard of any incoming changes for a while now. I'd almost rather see her ulti remove the whole aura bonus thing and just go to a static AGI boost and maybe some bonus damage to creeps or something... especially in the mid game, you basically have to have someone sit on Drow the entire time or she's going to rip people to shreds with the free 80 AGI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  13. #4733
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    What's the deal with Reverse Polarity? At level 16 it's only .25 sec short of Black Hole's duration, with a wider AOE and it's instant instead of channeled, and it's a full 80 seconds less cooldown, too. What's the balancing factor for it? That it's only a couple of seconds until level 16?
    It's never a good idea to compare two similar abilities to each other. Heroes are balanced around their entire toolkit.

  14. #4734
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Honestly, I'm not even sure what makes her so gamebreaking right now.
    It's simple. She isn't.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 12:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Auk View Post
    It's never a good idea to compare two similar abilities to each other. Heroes are balanced around their entire toolkit.
    Wanna guess how many times I've tried to explain that to him?

  15. #4735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auk View Post
    It's never a good idea to compare two similar abilities to each other. Heroes are balanced around their entire toolkit.
    Okay. So explain to me how Magnus isn't better at Enigma at controlling teams. Enigma is pretty much just a walking ulti. Midnight Pulse is rarely a gamebreaking move, Conversions are only so-so at pushing due to low HP (easy to wipe out with any sort of AOE), and Malefice is pretty good but there are better stuns.

    Every single one of Mag's abilities are great. Shockwave is like a better Dragon Slave, Empower is basically free Battle Fury, Skewer is a great positioning/repositioning tool, and as I've already said, Reverse Polarity is more or less like a Black Hole without drawbacks.

    Unless you need someone that can tear up a jungle, why in the fuck would you pick Enigma instead of Magnus? Hell, he doesn't even push as hard because Shockwave and Empower plow right through creeps. Both heroes have useful and varied toolkits, but as far as I can tell the only Enigma has is he's a top tier jungler while Magnus isn't. Also, he's less likely to get banned because pro teams already know Magnus ruins games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    It's simple. She isn't.
    Why isn't she in CM, then? If she isn't gamebreaking, if she's balanced and ready to go, why hasn't she been put into CM?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  16. #4736
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Why isn't she in CM, then? If she isn't gamebreaking, if she's balanced and ready to go, why hasn't she been put into CM?
    in dota 1 it took over a year for even balanced heroes to enter CM

  17. #4737
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    in dota 1 it took over a year for even balanced heroes to enter CM
    Yes, that's how it's always worked. There have been heroes that have gone unchanged for a long time before they've been added to -CM. It could still be months or even a year until Silencer, Drow and CW all make it to -CM even if they aren't getting changed further. And then there's friends like Tresdin, Xin, Slark and all the other friends who are yet to get there.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-01-02 at 03:14 PM.

  18. #4738
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Okay. So explain to me how Magnus isn't better at Enigma at controlling teams. Enigma is pretty much just a walking ulti. Midnight Pulse is rarely a gamebreaking move, Conversions are only so-so at pushing due to low HP (easy to wipe out with any sort of AOE), and Malefice is pretty good but there are better stuns.

    Every single one of Mag's abilities are great. Shockwave is like a better Dragon Slave, Empower is basically free Battle Fury, Skewer is a great positioning/repositioning tool, and as I've already said, Reverse Polarity is more or less like a Black Hole without drawbacks.

    Unless you need someone that can tear up a jungle, why in the fuck would you pick Enigma instead of Magnus? Hell, he doesn't even push as hard because Shockwave and Empower plow right through creeps. Both heroes have useful and varied toolkits, but as far as I can tell the only Enigma has is he's a top tier jungler while Magnus isn't. Also, he's less likely to get banned because pro teams already know Magnus ruins games.
    Enigma is ranged, more versatile, he's one of the fastest junglers in the game, he's great at level 1 Roshan and in fact can even solo Roshan from as early as level ~7, Malefice is the best mini-stun in the game, he can gank 100% more effectively early game, Eidolons are fantastic at pushing early game, etc. Do I need to continue? They're different heroes, they do different things. Magnus isn't great until he gets a Blink Dagger, Enigma can do a lot more early.

    You still can't make a balance argument by comparing two abilities because they do similar things.

  19. #4739
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    It's not so much the RP (even though it's ridiculous) but mostly the fact that Skewer doesn't count creeps as counting towards the unit cap (so you can't dodge it in the creep wave) and they buffed the range on it so immensely. At least that's what I think. So there.

  20. #4740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auk View Post
    Enigma is ranged, more versatile, he's one of the fastest junglers in the game, he's great at level 1 Roshan and in fact can even solo Roshan from as early as level ~7, Malefice is the best mini-stun in the game, he can gank 100% more effectively early game, Eidolons are fantastic at pushing early game, etc. Do I need to continue? They're different heroes, they do different things. Magnus isn't great until he gets a Blink Dagger, Enigma can do a lot more early.

    You still can't make a balance argument by comparing two abilities because they do similar things.
    Enigma can do a lot more early? Such as? You aren't going to land a Black Hole without a ton of help without blink. Malefice is good but it's expensive and most builds pump points into conversions for faster jungling in the early levels so it's only going to proc at most 2 stuns... and casting it can mean a lot of lost jungling time especially if you're out of clarities. Midnight Pulse doesn't even come into play for the first half of the game and I can't remember any games I've seen where it made a big difference.

    Hell, I'd say Shockwave alone outweighs the majority of what Enigma can do early on. It's cheap, has a very short cooldown when maxed, and since it's a linear AOE it can blast right through creep waves and heroes alike. Hell, it can hit targets multiple times if they enter and then re-enter the shockwave line, though I don't know how you'd manage that.

    I dunno man. You can't compare abilities directly but you can compare roles directly and I'd say both Magnus and Enigma are "walking ult" heroes, they're picked because their ults win games. They also have great abilities in addition to those ults, but skewer and malefice can't completely wipe teams for making a momentary positioning mistake like RP/BH can. The only difference is that BH is pretty much straight up worse than RP at level 16... hell, you could probably even make a case at level 11 (one second less stun time but instant vs channeled with larger AOE.)

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 09:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Yes, that's how it's always worked. There have been heroes that have gone unchanged for a long time before they've been added to -CM. It could still be months or even a year until Silencer, Drow and CW all make it to -CM even if they aren't getting changed further. And then there's friends like Tresdin, Xin, Slark and all the other friends who are yet to get there.
    Why take so long to put heroes in, then? I mean, if they go a month or two without any changes, shouldn't that mean they're ready for play with the big boys?
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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