[Megathread] DotA 2

[Hermanni]

I fucking hate people who whine about not getting miss call after they got ganked and died. It just shows that people blame someone else when something bad happens to them. You have a damn minimap, use it. Don't blame me that you don't look at minimap for 10 seconds. This usually only happens in low-mid MMR pubs when I queue with lower MMR friends. On top MMR it never happens that someone whines about not getting miss calls.

All these years playing I've never blamed anyone for not calling misses (except friends jokingly in VOIP), but I too find it pretty ridiculous when people do. It's very true though, going into the mid or low end of MMR (well, it's not too uncommon in any range) where you'd think people might be trying to improve themselves you seem to find plenty of what seem to be self-proclaimed dota-gods who could win any game by themselves with ease... provided that their teammates give them a tiny bit of assistance with basic map-awareness. It actually shows how little that is about lack of information rather than blame-shifting when quite often people jump to rage about lack of miss calls before they notice that the miss was actually called but they wouldn't see it from their tunnel-visioning of lasthits.

---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 06:37 AM ----------

I, for one, enjoyed the Greeviling event. I don't expect Valve to do these kind of events, but when they do, they're refreshing to play. I can't wait for mod support and map editor.

It was great and to me actually more enjoyable to play than Diretide, which was at times a bit tedious with people going to lanes to farm, long respawn times, pretty broken mechanics early on and the increasingly tedious mandatory killing of Roshan.

Only played Greeviling during the first 3 or so days, but it was pretty fun and the aura-strategy and Seraphic Greevils were nerfed really fast. It's been hilarious reading reddit and forums though with people being genuinely angry because of obvious luck-elements like random items (which was one of the most fun things about the mode to me) and lasthitting (which made some rather hilarious clutch games to me.) I don't want to have any of your bloody fun, I want a serious competitive Christmas game mode where I can use my superior kills to acquire hats.

[Enkidulgaa]

For me its not like I hate it when people complain about no miss, but I'm rather baffled
These people tell me that they dont have the awareness to look at the map every few seconds, but if I wrote it in chat they would notice?
The funniest thing is when you do write miss, they dont notice, die, blame you and when you point out that you wrote miss they're like "oh yeah sry"
That said with the new chatwheel I think one could make an argument that reporting miss is so easy now that there is really no excuse not to do it except if its part of some kind of passive aggressive scheme to educate people in map awareness or something

[Hermanni]

For me its not like I hate it when people complain about no miss, but I'm rather baffled
These people tell me that they dont have the awareness to look at the map every few seconds, but if I wrote it in chat they would notice?
The funniest thing is when you do write miss, they dont notice, die, blame you and when you point out that you wrote miss they're like "oh yeah sry"
That said with the new chatwheel I think one could make an argument that reporting miss is so easy now that there is really no excuse not to do it except if its part of some kind of passive aggressive scheme to educate people in map awareness or something

You're right, chat wheel makes it really easy to call it, but in their rages people also tend to forget it's not always possible to call it accurately. One might think it wouldn't be unreasonable for a mid player to check the enemy team and notice that they perhaps have a jungler that no one can account for, or a support such as Earthshaker who usually goes unseen in their lane for long periods of time when they're pulling or waiting to land a Fissure, or an offlane hero such as Bounty Hunter who might routinely go unseen for 15+ seconds? Nope, even if you notify in chat early on (and however unnecessary that should be) that you can't account for the heroes in your lane, it won't stop people from blaming you if a Bounty Hunter shows up in mid or trying to blame someone if a wild N'aix appears from the jungle.

I just recalled a game from a while ago I played on my other account with a friend. Can't recall it too well but I think I was offlaning for Dire, our mid was a SF, our jungle was Axe and my friend was supporting some carry in top and we weren't doing all too well. At one point the Radiant safe-lane support and jungler are seen entering our jungle from the top rune, clearly seen by the ward my friend had placed there. I ping the map and write "3" in chat in case someone didn't notice as they would probably join with their offlaner. I didn't have the health or mana to TP in, so I stayed on the lane and watched our carry still run into them and die and then write "omg 3 top" in chat. One might suppose our Axe would have noticed, jungle not usually being a place that requires a huge amount of focus to be succesful at, but he still gets caught at the hard camp near mid lane and writes "wtf 3 in our woods" or something similar in chat.

Now, one might assume the Shadow Fiend player would have noticed the 3 warnings/exclamations in chat, the enemies prancing around past wards and heroes, killing Axe on the high ground above his mid lane. Nope, 10 seconds later there's 4 enemies in the mid lane and a very dead SF who goes absolutely berserk in chat. Meanwhile I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is really happening, though I have to say, despite losing hard that occurrence really made the game for me.

[Demidov]

This usually only happens in low-mid MMR pubs when I queue with lower MMR friends.

Is this how it works? I did some queue with lower MMR friends quite a lot for the past two days and I keep getting quite worse opponents than I used to get when I solo queue, and I wasn't sure how the system worked.

[Leonard McCoy]

I fucking hate people who whine about not getting miss call after they got ganked and died. It just shows that people blame someone else when something bad happens to them. You have a damn minimap, use it. Don't blame me that you don't look at minimap for 10 seconds. This usually only happens in low-mid MMR pubs when I queue with lower MMR friends. On top MMR it never happens that someone whines about not getting miss calls.

The same goes for if I go farm a lane and my team is on other side when they knew I just TPed and they still take the fight and after they die they look around at map and ping on me.

I have a mixed opinion about this. I understand the complaint that says it's not my responsibility to be your map awareness. Learn map awareness. But by the same token Dota 2 is also ostensible a team game. It's a very simple thing for you to say MID MISSING. In fact they have a hotkey for it now as well and it could save your team mates lives.

[PizzaSHARK]

I have a mixed opinion about this. I understand the complaint that says it's not my responsibility to be your map awareness. Learn map awareness. But by the same token Dota 2 is also ostensible a team game. It's a very simple thing for you to say MID MISSING. In fact they have a hotkey for it now as well and it could save your team mates lives.

I consider it just common courtesy. Not required but it's polite to do it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I consider it just common courtesy. Not required but it's polite to do it.

in a team game , it is no courtesy to protect and cover your teammates, its a must.
otherwise, there is no team, which leads to all kinds of disasters.
you cover my back, and I cover yours, sure as sure.

[Deleted]

In case there are people who only lurk around here and really want to play the game, I have three DOTA 2 invites to spare. I tried to post them on reddit, but my submission doesn't appear. Just PM me with your steam ID to add you and send one to you.

I'll edit this message once the invites are gone.

[Schmiggy]

Same as Celltrex - I've got 5 spare invites collecting dust in my steam inventory, if you need one or even two, shoot me a private message with your steam ID and I'll send you one.

[PizzaSHARK]

in a team game , it is no courtesy to protect and cover your teammates, its a must.
otherwise, there is no team, which leads to all kinds of disasters.
you cover my back, and I cover yours, sure as sure.

Yeah, but it's not necessary - part of learning the game is learning not to tunnel vision and to always keep an eye on the minimap. Getting ganked by a mid that's been off the map for the past 45 seconds is no one's fault but your own. It's courtesy to call missing, but it's not a requirement - everyone should be watching the map.

[Deleted]

If you can't be aware of where atleast their midhero you are in serious trouble and should focus on learning that. I do not care what happens top if I am bot, but if the mid is going missing i notice it right away 9/10

[Deleted]

I'll edit this message once the invites are gone.

They're never gonna run out because Valve are gonna give out enough for everyone in the world and 20 smurfs each.

Because you aren't in shit tier MMR

So dig yourself out if you care so much.

[Kuntantee]

All these years playing I've never blamed anyone for not calling misses (except friends jokingly in VOIP), but I too find it pretty ridiculous when people do. It's very true though, going into the mid or low end of MMR (well, it's not too uncommon in any range) where you'd think people might be trying to improve themselves you seem to find plenty of what seem to be self-proclaimed dota-gods who could win any game by themselves with ease... provided that their teammates give them a tiny bit of assistance with basic map-awareness. It actually shows how little that is about lack of information rather than blame-shifting when quite often people jump to rage about lack of miss calls before they notice that the miss was actually called but they wouldn't see it from their tunnel-visioning of lasthits.

Since when utilizing your team mate is ridiculous? I find it very moronic to not use missing signal, be it by voice chat or text.

[PizzaSHARK]

So dig yourself out if you care so much.

Pretty much requires me to play carries, which I'm not really fond of. I kind of find them boring, support play is so much more varied.

[Kuntantee]

but it's not a requirement

that's a bullshit. Every players, including professional players, should inform team mates about enemies location or related information. Not because they have no map awareness , for the sake of being sure. Refusing to use missing signal or pings(same as ss, if you think it's your team mates responsibility to check minimap why pro players give signal when they see some1 in minimap?) can not be explained with logic. Failing to give SS signal is a fair reason for me to say few words(I am not talking about raging). I always give missing signal and if a player is dumb enough to tunnelvision last hit and even fail to realize his lane enemy is missing...Well you deserve some blames here.

[Deleted]

Since when utilizing your team mate is ridiculous? I find it very moronic to not use missing signal, be it by voice chat or text.

It's good to call miss. But blaming someone else because you died to a gank is just the ridiculous. When you die, you shouldn't be thinking. "Omg, why no miss call". but "Fuck, how did I not notice him missing from minimap". People just have the wrong attitude. And on top of it, it is a damn public game. Why do you rely on random people to call out stuff you can watch for yourself with ease. It's like you see a teammate run into five heroes and you know he is 100% dead but you blink in after him and then blame him for your death.

[Faldric]

I dont flame people for not calling miss, but when they dont I ask them to please do it next time. I watch the minimap but most of the time the one laning mid has a much better view. From the missing X on the minimap I cant know if he is just out of sight from the mid hero, at the fountain regenerating, checking runes,... Sure the mid hero can also just guess but he has much more information to do a guess.

[Deleted]

As for the calling discussion...
I call it in stacks because I play stacks to win.
I don't call it in pubs because I play pubs to improve and hopefully help others improve.

[Demidov]

I always call miss and ping spam like some horse. Not because I think it's necessary, but because I made it a habit from playing Dota1 on garena over the years. If I'd forget to call miss back then, people would give me so much shit and insult all my living and dead family. Now it's pretty much the same when I play with low-MMR friends in the lower bracket, there will always be at least one person who dies and goes "omg, no ss? reported". w/e man, but yeah it got stuck in my head, I even still type 'ss' instead of using the chat wheel, I find it annoying to use for some reason.

[Sackman]

It's good to call miss. But blaming someone else because you died to a gank is just the ridiculous. When you die, you shouldn't be thinking. "Omg, why no miss call". but "Fuck, how did I not notice him missing from minimap". People just have the wrong attitude. And on top of it, it is a damn public game. Why do you rely on random people to call out stuff you can watch for yourself with ease. It's like you see a teammate run into five heroes and you know he is 100% dead but you blink in after him and then blame him for your death.

I agree with kuntantee. You are exceptionally wrong and have the wrong attitude not us. It isn't a single player game, it's a team game, and requires communication.

If someone is missing, inform your team, and give location information if you can. When I am playing I will shout miss and inform them of the direction i believe them to be coming from if possible (and if accurate enough). How much this little bit of information can turn a game is staggering. It isn't everybody's responsibility to be checking every lane, and it isn't possible either.

When you die to a gank, from a person who is missing, and you weren't told about it, you rightfully ask why you weren't told. You don't know WHAT they are doing, they might disappear from the minimap because they are low and returning to base, they might disappear because they are staying in the fog (see: Pudge mid, Keeper, Slark hero's that utilize fog during laning phase) they might be pulling (see: any support hero/any hero who wants too) they might just be grabbing rune, they could be going to secret shop to buy an item, could be pulling back to receive items from courier, could be stacking ancients... they could be doing anything, you don't know just from looking at minimap - but the person who is with them, checking their items, checking their level, watching their play be it aggressive/defensive/coercive/suggestive and checking their farm, their direction, their mana/hp - they do know, and you cant keep on top of all 5 hero's on the map all the time, incl. what they are doing.

I think you must have played VERY few games if you are of the attitude that you are supposed to watch the minimap. I don't know about games you play but in games I play If someone doesn't call missing, you are dead, in a heartbeat, and the enemy team will take advantage of the situation, you will lose - and more importantly, you will not get better, while you keep blaming yourself for their mistakes.

TL;DR, call missing.