1. #7701
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Really tough to find kills with a hero that can't be seen and has max movespeed, you're right, I could never do that...

    And my AP queues are generally just as long, which is why I don't bother to switch to AP unless I feel like playing particular heroes. 10 minutes for AR game 8 minutes for AP what's the difference? I swapped to AR because of kids who just pick meta lineups all the time, this was especially a problem right after TI2. The amount of copycatting pros is really annoying, it's nice to not play with the same 6-8 heroes in every single game every single day from time to time. I've noticed it's a bit better now, but Magnus is still in virtually every single AP game I play, as is one of about 5 different carry (Gyro got huge, wonder how that happened) and of course Profit last pickers are still everywhere.


    Honestly, this whole argument reminds me of oh, so long ago when everyone told me that Lothar's was a terrible item, only good for pubstomping, pros would never use it because it's so easy to counter, and I must be playing against terrible players if I had any moderate level of success with it. And now we see pros using Lothar's all the time. Fascinating.

    Not just about finding kills. Finding right kills and winning games. Having the balance of farming and finding kills too and if to push or not. But if you feel you can play Clinkz as well as Funn1k, sure.

    http://dotabuff.com/players/40547474/matches

    There you go. Aui was in top 10 highest MMR on Dotabuff's ranking I think. Gabe Newell said Dotabuff's MMR impelmentation was fairly close to what is used. http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen...mments_on_dbr/ and Aui queues all modes but is mostly getting AP. That usually indicates that AP is generally faster queues and I don't see his queues being 8 minutes long on average on his stream. And watch his match history. The variety of heroes is much larger than what you make it out to be.

  2. #7702
    I played with Aui yesterday, he was disappointing. I also have him on mute for some reason, but that goes without saying since most of these "pros" are incredibly rude to "shit pub players."

    http://dotabuff.com/matches/191910110
    Hey look here it is.

  3. #7703
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I played with Aui yesterday, he was disappointing. I also have him on mute for some reason, but that goes without saying since most of these "pros" are incredibly rude to "shit pub players."

    http://dotabuff.com/matches/191910110
    Hey look here it is.
    Still doesn't take away the fact that your MMR isn't the highest possible. Queues times isn't a proof of having highest MMR possible, as we can see that Aui's queue times aren't as long as you say yours are. I never said you don't have high MMR. But you are saying you have the highest because of your queue times.

    And it still doesn't take away the fact that the variety of heroes are much larger than what you claim at high MMR. You just over exaggerate everything.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2013-05-10 at 03:59 PM.

  4. #7704
    It is the highest possible because there do not exist enough players to make a higher level tier. Maybe I'm not the best, but if there are only 50 better players in the entire world, not all of them even queue USE/W, and how many are online at one time again? Then we take into account that not all of us would be queueing at the same time and you're very quickly left with an impossibility.

  5. #7705
    Yeah, heroes like Gyro, Magnus, Rubick, Furion, Bounty, QoP or N'aix definitely aren't in every other AP game for the past few months. Right.

    And as anecdotal as my evidence may be, 90% of games I played with Lysah in both AP and AR have been after good 7-8 minutes of queuing minimum, often going well beyond 10 minutes. My solo queue isn't even half of these times. And every once in a while we get instant queued and then it's against Merlini & friends. Currently in queue for first game of the day, -AP -AR 8:45 and still counting.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-05-10 at 04:47 PM.

  6. #7706
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Yeah, heroes like Gyro, Magnus, Rubick, Furion, Bounty, QoP or N'aix definitely aren't in every other AP game for the past few months. Right.
    http://dotabuff.com/matches/191728413
    http://dotabuff.com/matches/191218547
    http://dotabuff.com/matches/191142868
    http://dotabuff.com/matches/189502061
    http://dotabuff.com/matches/189700936

    Those were 5 of your most AR recent games. Right. I understand that you and Lysah are buddies but this is getting quite embarrassing with the amount of ass licking.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2013-05-10 at 04:48 PM.

  7. #7707
    Why are you linking AR games to make a point about AP games, or are you talking about something else now?

    And have you ever considered he is my friend and not yours because you are the one who is embarrassing? Don't make the mistake of thinking Hermanni wasn't just as much against me as you are a year ago, I'm pretty sure he called me pub trash at some point in this thread. Luckily for him, he actually gave me a chance and played with me and now we always play together because he acquired some faith.

    15 minutes in queue for both AP and AR, max search range, still no game.

  8. #7708
    I'm sorry, I'll get back to you right after this queue. 14:05 still counting.

  9. #7709
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Why are you linking AR games to make a point about AP games, or are you talking about something else now?

    And have you ever considered he is my friend and not yours because you are the one who is embarrassing? Don't make the mistake of thinking Hermanni wasn't just as much against me as you are a year ago, I'm pretty sure he called me pub trash at some point in this thread. Luckily for him, he actually gave me a chance and played with me and now we always play together because he acquired some faith.

    15 minutes in queue for both AP and AR, max search range, still no game.
    Because AR games also have those heroes so how is it exclusive to AP games?

  10. #7710
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Because AR games also have those heroes so how is it exclusive to AP games?
    So instead of disagreeing with me, you're using evidence to actually support my claim that these heroes are in every single game. And you're using this as an argument against me? I guess I'm just thinking slow today.

    Just hit 20:00 in queue.

  11. #7711
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Because AR games also have those heroes so how is it exclusive to AP games?
    I don't really understand now. We're talking about people picking same heroes in AP or did I miss something?

    Meanwhile queue is 15 seconds past 20 minutes, pretty major exaggerating going on here.

  12. #7712
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    It is the highest possible because there do not exist enough players to make a higher level tier. Maybe I'm not the best, but if there are only 50 better players in the entire world, not all of them even queue USE/W, and how many are online at one time again? Then we take into account that not all of us would be queueing at the same time and you're very quickly left with an impossibility.
    I never said anything about Funn1k being in a higher level tier than you. I said he is probably higher MMR than you and you claimed no one has higher MMR than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    I don't really understand now. We're talking about people picking same heroes in AP or did I miss something?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    So instead of disagreeing with me, you're using evidence to actually support my claim that these heroes are in every single game. And you're using this as an argument against me? I guess I'm just thinking slow today.
    If they are in AR games too, doesn't that tell you that they will probably be in AP games, no matter what the trends in the pro scene is? You said people pick same heroes in AP because one of 7 heroes is in every AP game. I then link you your most recent AR games to show you that the heroes you listed are in those games too. Which makes your example quite useless because it isn't just in AP that those heroes are constantly present.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2013-05-10 at 05:08 PM.

  13. #7713
    I thought we were talking about matchmaking brackets, a la page 1 games, not imaginary numbers tied to people's accounts in a 5 man team game.

    Note that I actually do think Valve's rating/DBR is pretty accurate, but let's be honest, do you really think me queuing with newbies all the time versus 5 man prostacks are going to get the same read? I was actually surprised that I had a top 100 DBR, I expected it to be way lower with my winrate and I tip my hat off to their system for recognizing greatness even in bad games.

    30 minutes in queue, time to re-queue and hope something changes...I'm actually considering the server might be messed up.
    Also, these heroes being in AR is luck, in AP it's guaranteed. Pretty simple reasoning I think. I don't see why you think I would want to make my luck even worse be queuing AP instead of AR.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2013-05-10 at 05:10 PM.

  14. #7714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I thought we were talking about matchmaking brackets, a la page 1 games, not imaginary numbers tied to people's accounts in a 5 man team game.

    Note that I actually do think Valve's rating/DBR is pretty accurate, but let's be honest, do you really think me queuing with newbies all the time versus 5 man prostacks are going to get the same read? I was actually surprised that I had a top 100 DBR, I expected it to be way lower with my winrate and I tip my hat off to their system for recognizing greatness even in bad games.

    30 minutes in queue, time to re-queue and hope something changes...I'm actually considering the server might be messed up.
    Also, these heroes being in AR is luck, in AP it's guaranteed. Pretty simple reasoning I think. I don't see why you think I would want to make my luck even worse be queuing AP instead of AR.
    There is some weird bug in dota 2 when your queue doesn't pop and you can wait for unlimited amount of time and still won't get a pop. I had a 1 hour queue in AP game and i am not even close to good players MMR. Had to reload steam to make it work
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  15. #7715
    I don't think it was a bug, we did get a game eventually.

  16. #7716
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    If they are in AR games too, doesn't that tell you that they will probably be in AP games, no matter what the trends in the pro scene is? You said people pick same heroes in AP because one of 7 heroes is in every AP game. I then link you your most recent AR games to show you that the heroes you listed are in those games too. Which makes your example quite useless because it isn't just in AP that those heroes are constantly present.
    Statistically speaking, I listed 7 heroes, with repicks there's a pretty good chance one or more of them would be in an -AR game. What I meant was that when playing -AP there's usually 2 or more, and Bounty and N'aix both appear in like 70% of games in my recent AP match history. QoP might not be so common, but every once in a while you see some kid with 3 pages of QoP games who will shit on your random mid and supports because it's a hard hero.

    And although there is much exaggeration in this thread, I don't see why I shouldn't back statements that seem to actually reflect reality.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-05-10 at 08:42 PM.

  17. #7717
    Deleted
    So.. if I'm getting started in dota 2, should I be training against bots when I can fare decent against them or should I just jump into vs players?

  18. #7718
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Bots, and check out some guides online. You'll need a lot of help if your just starting a game like Dota. Give it at least 20 games until you really start enjoying it and understanding the basic mechanics.

    Also sub to DotaCinema on youtube, they have tons of quality content.
    I've played heroes of newerth for like 2 years prior to dota though. Don't know how well that translates to playing dota.. Found it rather easy when playing Spirit breaker against the hardest bots since he was much like Rampage from heroes of newerth.

    Will check out that channel
    Last edited by mmoc506e44f6eb; 2013-05-10 at 10:01 PM.

  19. #7719
    If you have played HoN I doubt there is much need to play against bots (not that it's mandatory for anyone.) Bots are for when you want to practice something on your own or if you get constantly smashed in solo matchmaking, but playing against humans straight away isn't a bad idea.

  20. #7720
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    I've played heroes of newerth for like 2 years prior to dota though. Don't know how well that translates to playing dota.. Found it rather easy when playing Spirit breaker against the hardest bots since he was much like Rampage from heroes of newerth.

    Will check out that channel
    HoN is basically a full copy(not bashing the game, it's how it was intended to be) of Dota, so you should try playing versus players. There are also built-in guides in the game. There's an icon that looks like a pencil on a book(or something like that) in the top left of the corner in-game.

    Here is another channel that will help you a lot, and you should also watch some games from Purge, because he explains in depth what's going on in said game, the way heroes work, etc.

    Here is a video of Merlini, an ex player of the pro Dota scene, that gives tips on how to configure your game, what options to use, and what options to not use. I strongly recommend you to watch this video from the first minute to the last one, as he gives important tips.

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