[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

The greatest game lol

[Keyzz]

So are Empowering Haste, Howl, Stygian Desolator and such, but these effects all exists to first and foremost buff yourself, the fact that everyone else benefit from them is a bonus. If you insist that Frostmourne is not a steroid, then neither are Trueshot Aura, Presence of the Dark Lord, Battle Trance, Amplify Damage, Natural Order... Well, you get the point.

Your ability to actually be in the middle of a fight as an underfarmed, underleveled support is much more limited than that of a carry Abaddon, and when you don't actually deal damage you're also putting yourself at a considerable risk just to apply Frostmourne. You may still not die easily, but your ability to stay in the fight and avoid CC will be reduced greatly. When you're support, the decision on whether or not your should be in the middle of a fight may not be an easy one, but when you're carry it will be almost impossible to go wrong.

You guys keep going on about the "anyone can be a carry". It's consistently amusing when you do. Mainly because I know you are smart enough to know why certain heroes are played as carries and some aren't. You can keep arguing all day that so and so can carry, but it would never happen in a serious game. Though I do recall a game at TI3 where a team tried an omni carry and got stomped on so hard it was hard to watch.

As for all those abilities you listed, you picked all these abilities trying to demonstrate that heroes that are traditionally played as carries have abilities that are teamwide buffs, and therefore trying to imply that they should be supports using the same logic that says Frostmourne is a support aura. The only problem is, they are almost all abilities of heroes who have OTHER self-steroids.

Empowering Haste - Ironically he's usually played as a support in competitive dota, but his Greater Bash is a self-steroid
Howl - Lycan has Shapeshift
Presence of the Dark Lord - SF has Necromastery
Battle Trance - Troll also has Fervor
Amplify Damage - Slardar also has Bash
Natural Order - I wouldn't call him a carry, but Astral Spirit is a self buff
Trueshot Aura - Drow has Marksmanship

So, pretty much all of your examples are poor examples. Most, if not all, carries are played due to the fact farm on them is amplified or more significant in a way. If you want to call Abbaddon a carry in a similar vein as Necro, where you get all tanky and shit and stand on the front lines, spamming heals and shields on everyone, then I can understand that. But at the end of the day, some heroes are better at some things than other heroes. Can Dazzle carry a pub game? Sure. Can I eat a steak with a spoon? Sure. Are either of those the best tool for the job? Nope.

Oh, and I'm looking forward to everyones responses about how this one time they totally dominated with a carry cm.

[Nelavar]

This Abbadon stuff is really going in circles. I dont think anyone has claimed that Abbadon would have more damage output than any hypercarry out there going into lategame. But that is not the point of carry Abbadon anyway so it doesnt really matter

[Hermanni]

You guys keep going on about the "anyone can be a carry". It's consistently amusing when you do. Mainly because I know you are smart enough to know why certain heroes are played as carries and some aren't. You can keep arguing all day that so and so can carry, but it would never happen in a serious game. Though I do recall a game at TI3 where a team tried an omni carry and got stomped on so hard it was hard to watch.

You can keep yapping about pros all day and you still don't have an argument. If you lack understanding to make up some real discussion then too bad. Pro trends come and go and if you follow the scene closely for years you'll understand that there are no absolutes, trend shifts are often arbitrary and heroes and roles come and go at the whims of players. 'The meta' is just a slowly revolving game of rock-paper-scissors where it takes anywhere from 2 weeks to 12 months for someone to realize that everyone is playing scissors, time to learn rock. A year ago N'aix was a joke pick and someone trying to run a support Naga was laughed at. Someone failed to carry with omni at TI3? Too bad, but sample size of 1 does really not make basis for good judgement. If you really think pros know something a common player can't know then why on earth would they bet the most important tournament of the year on something they don't expect to work?

All my examples were good ones. I'm perfectly aware that said heroes have other damaging abilities and that didn't matter at all for the argument I was making.

[Kjalar]

The difference in here is that Abaddon is melee. That makes him much more difficult to position than most supports to be efficient with Frostmourne. And because of the nature of Frostmourne, you also want to be hitting whatever your damage dealers are hitting, and especially if they're melee, you're setting yourself up to eat a lot of shit that is being aimed at your carries. If you soak AoE silences and stuns and such you're also seriously hurting your ability to perform your other tasks, such as shielding the damn carry.

Black hole is a strong AOE disable that goes through magic immunity, hence picking Enigma guarantees wins.
See what I did there? That's called vague statement. Now please re-read your post. "If you try to get in melee to apply debuffs, you'll get cleaved and silenced and end up dead, hence that's a bad idea". Sure, I agree.

[Hermanni]

Black hole is a strong AOE disable that goes through magic immunity, hence picking Enigma guarantees wins.
See what I did there? That's called vague statement. Now please re-read your post. "If you try to get in melee to apply debuffs, you'll get cleaved and silenced and end up dead, hence that's a bad idea". Sure, I agree.

It's vague because I assumed it would be obvious what I'm talking about so I don't need to write a lengthy example about support Abaddon trying to merrily run side by side with a Sven against a team with a couple of Linas and Lions. Enigma can be dealt with in a multitude of ways through team effort, but an Abaddon without any farm only has so many ways to stay in the dead center of a fight for longer than 5 seconds and your teammates can't do much about that.

[Lysah]

Abaddon doesn't need farm, phase drums armlet is a pretty cheap build.

[Glorious Leader]

Theirs a couple of "mods" i guess you could call them out there for dota. One lets you pan your camera out further than the default game lets you. Anyone know if this is legit and can be used without ban?

[Deleted]

Theirs a couple of "mods" i guess you could call them out there for dota. One lets you pan your camera out further than the default game lets you. Anyone know if this is legit and can be used without ban?

Well they locked the camera there for a reason really.
Sound mods are probably fine as long as it's something like Abbadon but you'll definitely get banned for zooming your camera out further than normal if they notice.

[PizzaSHARK]

Abaddon doesn't need farm, phase drums armlet is a pretty cheap build.

*urn phase drums armlet

Urn 2 gud.

[llDemonll]

I play in the normal bracket.

You know what the most frustrating thing about the normal bracket is?

Bad carries. Carries who can't last hit, carries who don't ever look at the minimap so they can see how many heroes are missing, carries who are under-farmed and try and take on the enemy team. Ugh, it's frustrating playing a support hero with them because I can keep up all the wards I want and call missings, but I can't save them from their own stupidity. Then I wish I were playing the carry, but then they would be playing support and wouldn't be putting wards and would be trying to last-hit

[Scummer]

I play in the normal bracket.

You know what the most frustrating thing about the normal bracket is?

Bad carries. Carries who can't last hit, carries who don't ever look at the minimap so they can see how many heroes are missing, carries who are under-farmed and try and take on the enemy team. Ugh, it's frustrating playing a support hero with them because I can keep up all the wards I want and call missings, but I can't save them from their own stupidity. Then I wish I were playing the carry, but then they would be playing support and wouldn't be putting wards and would be trying to last-hit

I think the bad carry that really annoys me is the one that goes for crap items, like a Vanguard. They have the gold and last hits, they just spend it in a dumb way. I guess I find it less excusable than under farmed carrys because sometimes there are good reasons why he's under farmed and more often than not it will be his supports fault. Whereas picking up bad items is just flat out their fault.

[Pantelija]

I think the bad carry that really annoys me is the one that goes for crap items, like a Vanguard. They have the gold and last hits, they just spend it in a dumb way. I guess I find it less excusable than under farmed carrys because sometimes there are good reasons why he's under farmed and more often than not it will be his supports fault. Whereas picking up bad items is just flat out their fault.

Vanguard is not a bad item, however CARRY getting a Vanguard is bad

But i agree, people who constantly pick carries and cant last hit and on top of that build wrong items ruin alot of games

[Deleted]

however CARRY getting a Vanguard is bad

Notrly it's pretty legit on AM and Spectre.

[Glorious Leader]

As for the carry discussion could you make timbersaw a carry? I mean I can think of lots of heroes who just don't seem to have that potential.

[Deletedaccount1]

was doing some single draft last night and played viper for the first time. pretty fun stuff, watching people trying to run from away from my Q lol

[reighnman]

The Viper is coming..

[Hermanni]

As for the carry discussion could you make timbersaw a carry? I mean I can think of lots of heroes who just don't seem to have that potential.

I've been carried by Timbersaw lately more than any other hero.

[Lysah]

As for the carry discussion could you make timbersaw a carry? I mean I can think of lots of heroes who just don't seem to have that potential.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/281737028
http://dotabuff.com/matches/228337486
http://dotabuff.com/matches/215714228

What do you mean "don't have that potential?" Carry doesn't mean deadlus rapier on every hero.

[Deleted]

timbersaw is a tank dishing out pure dmg everywhich way, theres no way he sucks.