[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

They should really disable picking more carries once one was already picked in your team

You can't really categorize heroes like that. I've seen a lot of various heroes played as different roles. There is also the possibility of dual core lineup.

I remember when I started playing dota, we all wanted to play carries and the general idea was that easy to kill heroes such as CM or leshrac were terrible. It's still the same, everyone wants to be the killer, the one with big ass crits, not the paper CM running at the back, dying every time, spending all of the cash on wards the whole game. On higher ratings it tends to be better though, I rarely see teams like that these days, so just try to endure it or stack up.

[Deleted]

And we're back to 5 players on one team all instalocking carrys so that they can go up in rating because they think everyone else on their team is garbage.

Which inevitably leads to going down in rating, of course.

I didn't say carry. You can pick supports that can have impact on their own if it turns out their carry is shit. Supports like that carry games far more easily than actual "carry" heroes (Unless they're silly early like Jugg)

[Lysah]

I didn't say carry. You can pick supports that can have impact on their own if it turns out their carry is shit. Supports like that carry games far more easily than actual "carry" heroes (Unless they're silly early like Jugg)

The supports you're talking about do not exist. There are carrys and then there is garbage, only two types of heroes in this game. Even heroes like Lion that have extreme CC and damage STILL cannot make kills or do anything without a competent team.

[noteworthynerd]

I'm going to step in here and kindly remind everyone that a polite, lively debate is encouraged, but insulting other users for disagreeing with you about the MMR system certainly is not.

[Deleted]

The supports you're talking about do not exist. There are carrys and then there is garbage, only two types of heroes in this game. Even heroes like Lion that have extreme CC and damage STILL cannot make kills or do anything without a competent team.

Except 4 shitters + Lion will do a lot more than 4 shitters + Wisp. Occasionally enough to win you games you would've otherwise lost.
I'm not saying you can win every game, I'm saying you can win far more.

[Hermanni]

Keep it civil. I know MMR is a very passionate subject to many, but sadly it often means few people can remain objective when discussing the subject. Other people's experience may differ from yours, it might be because of a different point of view or because their experience is actually different, it probably isn't because they're less intelligent than you.


My experience is that MM in Dota works just fine and I often enjoy playing against stacks when solo. I supported my way to 1900+ MMR in HoN and I'm fairly sure you can get above 5500 in Dota as support if you have patience and know what you're doing. Sadly my experience is also that most people that play a lot of support don't really know how to make most out of their role.

[Longview]

My experience is that MM in Dota works just fine and I often enjoy playing against stacks when solo.

same

also there are tons of reasons why people would appear to be really bad while still being at the same rating you are at.. you can excel on one thing and keep doing that one thing and get upwards 5k.

i had a support player place sentry wards within tower range versus bounty hunter causing us to lose the lane. i asked him about it (without being rude (amazing concept no?)) and he told me that he never really buy wards or play support but that he was the last one to pick and we didn't have anyone that bought courier or wards.

if you see someone playing terribly, think a while about how they're close enough to your rating to get in your game. after that you should focus on your own play, because that's the only thing that's going to be in every single game for you.

also.. people performing badly in your games is not in any way proof that mmr is broken. drawing conclusions without any proof is silly.

[Charge me Doctor]

And we're back to 5 players on one team all instalocking carrys so that they can go up in rating because they think everyone else on their team is garbage.

Which inevitably leads to going down in rating, of course.

I've got dazzle+WD+alchemist+CM+lina fight once. Was fun, but we lost. Lina with cranium basher is legit as fuck.

From my experience, it's more likely to not get any carry, than to get 5 carry characters. By carry i mean hyper-late-game-carry like Gyro, Sniper, Luna and other farm dependent machines of death

[Lysah]

I'm saying you can win far more.

Agree to disagree, then.

[Sorcereria]

If you have a competent 2 supports on a team that can assist and roam a lot to destroy lanes instead of just sitting there leeching exp, I'd say its almost as good as 1 good carry. You can always loose end game though. Best idea is to duo safe lane or mid / carry.

PS. Byebye my 13 games win streak :P Currently 27/10 W/L Still my win rate increased highly after moving from normal to matchmaking. People are actually trying. As long as there are drafted non useless heroes.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/516893558 I'd kill that kunka personally with my bare hands j/k. Had 2 rax vs 0 and aegis.

[Deleted]

How frequent are 4-5 carry teams in low MMR? I really don't think it's that popular. If you're 3.6k you can easily carry yourself out of there if you consider yourself a way better player. If you are just a bit better then it might take a while but then it also doesn't matter as much. Just instantly lock mid or carry position. Don't wait for people to pick and you should be fine in most of your games. If someone picks mid after you picked and called it and refuses to give you mid then go off lane.

Supporting does not really make any sense at low MMR. Instantly buying crow at 3 min won't help you much because your mid doesn't know how to bottle crow or buy items as soon as he has gold. Offensive warding doesn't do much if your team stays at your part of the map farming when you got huge advantage. People at low MMR just don't know how to farm. You can just straight out outfarm them if you are better and proceed to 1v5.

Swiftending has an experiement on PD where he does this. I talked to him and he just said what I basically said. If you are behind you have to farm a bit but generally he said he just crushes his lane because he is a better player then go around killing everyone with snowball heroes.

[Lysah]

What do you do when you're 4700 and you know you should be 5500 but people aren't stupid enough to be 1v5ed anymore? =p

90% of my games are lost at picks, can't force team to pick good heroes and captain gets so insanely instalocked in cd/cm that I'd probably only get it half the time if I spammed.

[Deleted]

What do you do when you're 4700 and you know you should be 5500 but people aren't stupid enough to be 1v5ed anymore? =p

Get gooder

[Sorcereria]

What do you do when you're 4700 and you know you should be 5500 but people aren't stupid enough to be 1v5ed anymore? =p

90% of my games are lost at picks, can't force team to pick good heroes and captain gets so insanely instalocked in cd/cm that I'd probably only get it half the time if I spammed.

Get autoclicker

[Deleted]

What do you do when you're 4700 and you know you should be 5500 but people aren't stupid enough to be 1v5ed anymore? =p

90% of my games are lost at picks, can't force team to pick good heroes and captain gets so insanely instalocked in cd/cm that I'd probably only get it half the time if I spammed.

Like I tell all my friends who ask me how to win: Go mid, win mid. Easy game.

Winning mid isn't just about securing yourself farm. It's about being a moral booster. If your team's mid lane is crushing and killing their mid then there is no way you'll give up. People just play better if they see that they are winning lanes.

[Lysah]

Like I tell all my friends who ask me how to win: Go mid, win mid. Easy game.

Winning mid isn't just about securing yourself farm. It's about being a moral booster. If your team's mid lane is crushing and killing their mid then there is no way you'll give up. People just play better if they see that they are winning lanes.

And we're back to "pick a carry," which is not a viable strategy for all 5 players on the team.

[Deleted]

And we're back to "pick a carry," which is not a viable strategy for all 5 players on the team.

But if you insta lock it you will most likely get it. At least you get it more often than not and I don't see 5 man carry teams that much.

[Lysah]

But if you insta lock it you will most likely get it. At least you get it more often than not.

That doesn't mean the system isn't garbage for promoting and enforcing the fact that carry players have higher ratings and the only way to climb out of the MMR void is to play carry exclusively.

I'm not actually mad or anything, I randomed all of my solo placement games and I'm not surprised where I ended up after a 1-9 record. I'm just trying to explain how the system is and always will be flawed and incomplete.

[Deleted]

That doesn't mean the system isn't garbage for promoting and enforcing the fact that carry players have higher ratings and the only way to climb out of the MMR void is to play carry exclusively.

I'm not actually mad or anything, I randomed all of my solo placement games and I'm not surprised where I ended up after a 1-9 record. I'm just trying to explain how the system is and always will be flawed and incomplete.

It's not the system but rather the game though. Some positions have more impact than others. I'm not sure that it is impossible to play support and get up your rating, I just think it will take longer. I'm not a support player myself so I don't know how to win as support in pubs but I assume good support players do. And it's pubs. You have to rely on yourself at lower levels. Dota 2 wasn't designed for pubs in mind only so when the teamwork factor gets taken out you have to adapt.

[veiledy0]

I remember when I started playing dota, we all wanted to play carries and the general idea was that easy to kill heroes such as CM or leshrac were terrible. It's still the same, everyone wants to be the killer, the one with big ass crits, not the paper CM running at the back, dying every time, spending all of the cash on wards the whole game.

I don't understand people who think this way. Carry is the most dull and stupidest role in the team. Especially the hyper item dependent ones, like AM, Void, Dusa (I'd mention Spectre as well, but unlike the aforementioned 3 Spectre doesn't force the rest of her team to play 4v5 as she can join fights with her ult). What's the point of playing against creeps for 15-25 minutes, just so you can play against actual players for 5 minutes? Where's the fun in that, seriously?

If I somehow decide to play a carry, it's always stuff like Weaver, Gyro, Luna, and such heroes that have very high mid game presence, as they only need Lvl 6, Threads and Aquila (maybe a Bracer or Oggre Club as well in Luna's case), which all can be obtained by 8th minute, to go on a semi-rampage.

How frequent are 4-5 carry teams in low MMR?

Quite often. This game for example, guy calls top farm, picks Spectre, so I say I'll babysit him top. Then the guy with the russian name picks Pudge ofc, we get a Skele (ok, he can jungle), and Medusa as our last pick! What happens next is all 3 of them farm the jungle consistently, without understanding that all they're doing by that is rendering all 3 of them absolutely useless.

Then there's this game, where we have Luna and Weaver as our carries, both farming their own lanes (Weaver went top with Oggre, PL was nice and said he'll jungle and gank, and I soloed bot lane and cleared a triple ancient stack I made for myself) until 2-3 cheap items, and then we just force teamfights and knock them to the ground by 15th minute, without a chance of comeback.

Personally, I'd say over 3/4 of games at low mmr are decided based on picks only, 'cause it doesn't really matter how bad you are, when all you need to do is push 1 button, Eclipse and a few Shukuchi's and their whole team is dead.