[Megathread] DotA 2

[Crackleslap]

I didn't ask what heroes you pick to win the lane with. I asked which mid heroes to pick to win the game. And I asked Crackleslap.

I generally play support (some times offlane) and my go to hero when I see a SS is Lion. Soon as I hit level 2/3 and have stun and hex I'm off to smoke gank mid lane. And rather lately after watching ti5 I've become very good at adapting with wards, so there's that to always help for incoming ganks / information.

Communicated with my bloodseeker (friend irl who i was palying with). I hex, he silences I wait the full duration and then stun and finger if I have too. Rinse repeat.

This is how I dealt with storm spirit in my last game.

[Deleted]

Same thing, those 3 continue to snowball really hard out of a won lane and get harder and harder to shutdown. And please, forgive me for interrupting your private conversation on a public forum

Well, I disagree with all three of your picks. But whatever works for you. Do you find Storm easy to deal with in pubs?

This is how I dealt with storm spirit in my last game.

Alright, that wasn't really an answer to my question but if that is how you shut down Storms I understand why you find him a pain in the ass.

[RobertoCarlos]

I miss doom. Hes one of my favorite heroes but hes seriously lacking in damage.

[M1r4g3]

Considering how random people are in pubs you can just pick anything and go anywhere.
-jungle utility SF
-SD/WD mid
-offlane PA
-support ursa
-carry pudge

[LiiLoSNK]

[Crackleslap]

Well, I disagree with all three of your picks. But whatever works for you. Do you find Storm easy to deal with in pubs?



Alright, that wasn't really an answer to my question but if that is how you shut down Storms I understand why you find him a pain in the ass.

Well how else do you counter him without certain heroes and endless ganking him in laning stage, assuming SS team helps him not get ganked. Gotta work with what you got. After ganks, SS would typically jungle farm but that requires a smoke with 3 and one aoe farmer and the enemy team to be clueless to deny it.

I agree Storm Spirit can be played very poorly and is quite easily to deal with then. Like my previous clock game our team absolutely demolished the enemy team with spirit. I was nearly on a godlike spree with 5 slot. And the enemy storm went for a dagon rofl after bloodstone/orchid.

My end of the day point is, I hate heroes that can be immune to shit 90% of the fucking time dealing 80% of their total damage at the same time.

Glimmer capes work too I guess.

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I miss doom. Hes one of my favorite heroes but hes seriously lacking in damage.

Funny you say that. More than likely pure coincidince but I've seen Doom's popularity starting to climb in pubs. Besides these past 2 weeks, I don't think I saw Doom once in half a year. Not even fucking kidding.

[Lysah]

Glimmer works okay, but again, it requires a second hero to follow you around the map at all times.

[Deleted]

The notion that a hero who should be getting Octarine Core at some point to further decrease the cooldown of a spammable skill that is guaranteed to do 20% of an opponent's HP before MR "lacks damage" is hilarious, to say the least.

Doom lacks damage if you do what every idiot pub Doom does and try to right-click with him. Don't. Get aura items, Aghanim's, Refresher and Octarine, and sit at the back of fights spamming Lvl Death in the lategame. Doom isn't a right-clicker, he's a caster.

[Kralljin]

Get aura items, Aghanim's, Refresher and Octarine, and sit at the back of fights spamming Lvl Death in the lategame. Doom isn't a right-clicker, he's a caster.

Agh 4,2k
Refresher 5,3k
Octarine Core 5,9k

That's 15,4k Gold.

And you still need ~1,5k for Boots and a 2,2k for Blink to be useful.

Which would make it 19,1k in Total, Doom is a decent farmer with Devour, but roughly 20k isn't that easy to farm for him.

Next to that, without any big Mana / Int boosting Items, spamming lvl? Death after you used 2x Ult and Refresher is unlikely, sounds more like stuff for very late games because of the massive farm requirement, but those very lategames aren't the weakness of Doom, he's just super shit during early.

[Lysah]

Doom is actually one hell of a right clicker with alpha's, really not sure where your advice comes from. I have a much better winrate as carry doom than support doom. Going aghs/refresher is really only useful against heroes that are crippled by the silence (lel storm spirit).

Going right click is all about getting out the door fast. This means you skip the fail ass midas and you go straight for shadow blade/armlet/MoM, you can easily kill people before they can react around 15-20 and be 6 slotted by 35.

As much as I'd love to see buffs to his swing timer and BAT, I think any buffs to his right click would fundamentally break the hero.

[Drunkenvalley]

Oh yes, Shadowblade Doom. That was the absolute bane of a team I had once. He'd appear out of thin air, Doom someone, destroy them and vanish again, for all intents and purposes.

Then again, that was 3k mmr. Sentries, dust or vision in general is hard to find there.

[Lysah]

Best part about shadow blade is that vision doesn't actually counter it, it just lets you see it coming a moment before it hits. After the nerfs I do think it is longer good enough to be considered absolutely mandatory, but still a very good item on a lot of heroes.

[Kralljin]

As much as I'd love to see buffs to his swing timer and BAT, I think any buffs to his right click would fundamentally break the hero.

If they would add something to Doom that he could contribute something to kills before level 6 it would already a great boon.

Perhaps Scorched Earth should have a slow Aura instead of an MS buff for Doom, at least then he could somehow help to kill people, aside from eating a Troll highpriest for net.

[Deleted]

Well, I disagree with all three of your picks. But whatever works for you. Do you find Storm easy to deal with in pubs?

Easy is relative. He is just another carry, let him do what he wants wil always be bad, give him a fair bit of attention and he is manageble. My winrate vs Storm shouldnt be different than any other hero. I have no problems with that hero, if anything, theres really only Techies that i really dislike playing against (and playing with).

[EqualWin]

If they would add something to Doom that he could contribute something to kills before level 6 it would already a great boon.

Perhaps Scorched Earth should have a slow Aura instead of an MS buff for Doom, at least then he could somehow help to kill people, aside from eating a Troll highpriest for net.

just get a oov if u want a ok slow? there was lot of roaming doom in china back in Dac if i remember.

[Deleted]

Well how else do you counter him without certain heroes and endless ganking him in laning stage, assuming SS team helps him not get ganked. Gotta work with what you got. After ganks, SS would typically jungle farm but that requires a smoke with 3 and one aoe farmer and the enemy team to be clueless to deny it.

Yeah, it sounds like a pain in the ass to play like that against Storm. I run circles around people like you when I play Storm. When I play against Storm I don't actively try to shut him down. I just kill him or force him oom when he comes within my vicinity. The major problem with most of the answers I've seen here is they all focus on killing Storm but don't put much thought into not getting killed by Storm. You know how easy of a kill Lion is most of the time? You know how easily a Storm can kill a Leshrac or Lina at level 6?

You know a hero I consider good at winning games against Storm? TA. "What? TA?! She has no stun, she can't kill Storm!". Did TA even cross your mind when I asked what mid heroes are good at winning games against Storm?

[EqualWin]

i think i already posted this, but the easiest way imho is, pick lesh. rekt him in mid, get euls and you have ur ez stun combo to kill him over and over.

ta if ure ok with psi also beat him, sf, qop, lina etc but thats not the easiest

[Lysah]

Winning mid is only beating Storm when you're 4k MMR or lower. Not sure how this can possibly work at your level. We've already discussed this, he will just go to the jungle and catch up because the lane phase is 99% meaningless in this meta.

You can't really force Storm to use his mana or kill him when he comes into your viscinity, the whole problem with the hero is that he will teleport to a tower, zipzap onto a support, kill them before the stun wears off, then zipzap away before you can even try to help. After he's done this 10-15 times, he will be 10k gold ahead of you and he can now zipzap onto you and kill you as well. The only way to really stop it is to never, ever be alone, and that isn't really an answer.

Fact remains, as balanced as Storm pickers want to think Storm is, his performance at ti5 proves otherwise. The stats are there, Storm was a top picked and banned hero and had a great winrate. Seems odd for a hero EASILY shut down and countered. Not to mention dozens of games where Storms have been shut down mid, only to come back in as little as 10 minutes and become rampaging balls of death. People picked Storm into his mid counters on purpose repeatedly, because the pros already know that countering Storm mid does nothing to him. He doesn't need farm, he doesn't need kills, he only needs to get level 6 and you can't stop that from happening no matter how hard you outlane him.

If you manage to outfarm a Storm for the first 5 minutes of the game and that somehow translates into him being useless all game, that is on him and not you. Then again, you already admitted that all the Storms you play against are trash. Sadly, that is not the case for me.

[EqualWin]

in the main event he was picked 18 times and 50% w/r seems balanced to me. xd

I think his aoe range of the ult need to be smaller, so its harder to snipe someone. other than that idk hes already weak in lane, also the hero is one of the harder to "master" / with high skill celling I'd say, so most storm are easy with a bit lockdown and wont dodge all ur shit

[Lysah]

Storm 29-21 overall in ti5 when it mattered, 58% winrate which is better than any other hero but Gyro and BH. Disregarding, of course, heroes that weren't picked enough to be statistically significant, yes I drew an imaginary line for how many games makes a winrate matter, but even if you include any hero with more than 20 games played it only adds PL, TA, and CM as "better" heroes.

Honestly, this whole argument reminds me a lot of everyone arguing with me that shadow blade sucked a year or more ago. "It's so easy to counter" "it only works against pubs" "what are you 2k mmr lol." And guess what, the pros started building shadow blade on pretty much every single carry in the game and it was heavily nerfed shortly after.