1. #19841
    Deleted
    I win 100% of my mids vs sf as pudge - yet people say sf is super good vs pudge.

    One persons experience with a matchup is not proof really.

  2. #19842
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    Quite honestly, if you're ever at 100% winrate the answer is "yes, you're lucky". I think that goes for literally every matchup.
    It does? So if a guy goes 30-0 in ranked it's luck? Ok.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    I win 100% of my mids vs sf as pudge - yet people say sf is super good vs pudge.

    One persons experience with a matchup is not proof really.
    You win 100% of your mids vs SF as Pudge. That means at your MMR, Pudge is good against SF (if you actually got 100% winrate against SF, which I doubt but feel free to link Dotabuff). So, proof enough for me. Now do it at 6k MMR and I will agree that Pudge is good against SF there too.

  3. #19843
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    It does? So if a guy goes 30-0 in ranked it's luck? Ok.
    ...Yes?

    What the fuck are you on Ariadne. You're not even pretending to base this off of any logic. If you're ever running around with 30 kills and no deaths the game has just gone so flat out wrong somewhere that this isn't even worth mentioning as a sample.

  4. #19844
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    It does? So if a guy goes 30-0 in ranked it's luck? Ok.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You win 100% of your mids vs SF as Pudge. That means at your MMR, Pudge is good against SF (if you actually got 100% winrate against SF, which I doubt but feel free to link Dotabuff). So, proof enough for me. Now do it at 6k MMR and I will agree that Pudge is good against SF there too.

    100% beating him mid and 100% win rate against him are not the same, rarely can you win a game as pudge.

  5. #19845
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    ...Yes?

    What the fuck are you on Ariadne. You're not even pretending to base this off of any logic. If you're ever running around with 30 kills and no deaths the game has just gone so flat out wrong somewhere that this isn't even worth mentioning as a sample.
    doesn't he mean 30 games 0 loses? it isn't luck
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  6. #19846
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    100% beating him mid and 100% win rate against him are not the same, rarely can you win a game as pudge.
    What do you mean by winnig? Killing him? Sure, if you win mid in 100% of your games then I agree that Pudge is strong against SF on lane in your MMR bracket. The same way I agree Rikimaru is stronger at 2k MMR. I certainly wouldn't attribute it to luck. But that's just me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    ...Yes?

    What the fuck are you on Ariadne. You're not even pretending to base this off of any logic. If you're ever running around with 30 kills and no deaths the game has just gone so flat out wrong somewhere that this isn't even worth mentioning as a sample.
    30 wins 0 losses. And even in your case I wouldnt' consider it luck. If a guy went 30-0 in a game I'd say he outplayed/outpicked the opponent and not attribute it to luck.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2015-09-14 at 08:43 PM.

  7. #19847
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    What do you mean by winnig? Killing him? Sure, if you do that in 100% of your games then I agree that Pudge is strong against SF on lane in your MMR bracket. The same way I agree Rikimaru is stronger at 2k MMR.

    - - - Updated - - -



    30 wins 0 losses. And even in your case I wouldnt' consider it luck. If a guy went 30-0 in a game I'd say he outplayed/outpicked the opponent and not attribute it to luck.
    I'd say when im mid vs sf i almost always kill him atleast 3 times and am able to farm up a blink at 10 mins, i'd consider that heavily beating him mid.

  8. #19848
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    30 wins 0 losses. And even in your case I wouldnt' consider it luck.
    And that's cute. But this is laughable. 30 wins, 0 losses. Are you serious? I don't think you're serious in thinking that's an argument. That's just flat out too many wins to not be a glaring anomaly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    If a guy went 30-0 in a game I'd say he outplayed/outpicked the opponent and not attribute it to luck.
    I just call it 'luck' as an umbrella term for most of these. If your team outpicks the enemy team that's a starting advantage, but is ultimately luck of the draw between your team and theirs' cohesion. If you're outplaying the enemy laner(s) that's a huge advantage, but is again luck of the draw.

    And if you're going to pretend 30-0 isn't a glaringly obvious anomaly then we're done here.

  9. #19849
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    well what do you want? being able to go alone roaming for the map and storm nerfed so he can't kill you 1v1 anymore?
    I want Storm to actually have to make decisions and take risks to get kills. Right now, there is zero risk in playing that hero. You fuck up and way overextend? No problem, just zipzap out. You have even 1 health left when you enter ult you're home free. My proposed change to Storm > can now take damage/be auto attacked while in ball lightning. Problem solved. He would still have insane mobility and damage, but he wouldn't be able to zip circles around a team of 5 and take literally 0 damage during.

    I play mid, therefore I play mid herores. Again, sorry if that makes me play OP heroes. I don't play Leshrac or Lina (which are abused the most by high MMR players). I didn't play Sniper last patch. I didn't play TB/Ember when they were new and OP. I stopped playing Tinker whe he became FotM. I didn't play TA when she was just released and every one was playing her. I've been playing Storm since Dota 2 release and wrote a guide for Storm for playdota.com which was top 3 rated at its release and granted me a super early Dota 2 beta key but I didn't know about the beta key because I wasn't playing Dota at that time. I have played QoP since Dota 2 release too. It's like saying all Warlock players in WoW were FotM players.
    So you agree you play FotM heroes? Thank you.

    What MMR did you calibrate at to say it was the highest possible? Keep lying or be delusional.
    4800, look it up, it's not possible to calibrate higher than 4800-4900 or so, try all you want. They put this cap in place to prevent account sellers or something.

    It's just a coincidence that about any high MMR player have lower party MMR than solo MMR. They try equally as hard, I bet.
    Occam's Razor. Party matchmaking is more difficult than solo queue. To take this example to the extreme, you will not stomp games as TA if you were in a 5v5 setting, just like RTZ got eliminated from TI5 after two rounds. When the enemy team is organized and has a brain, it's not so easy to be a pubstar, is it? It's only natural that the skill level of pubstars goes way down as more and more players are added to the team and there are fewer and fewer idiots to feed off of.

    It's been said before and I'll say it again for you - MMR means nothing other than your ability to win games. It doesn't prove you're good at this game. The pros know this, and people know this all the way down to shitcan level. For you, that means picking some of the easiest mid laners in the game to guarantee you get your farm and then picking on the worst players in the game to snowball. I'm glad that works for you, any monkey can do that, though, it's not going to impress me.

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1794211297
    This is why TA is a shit hero. (I actually consider her somewhere between top and second tier simply because of how safe of a pick she is for mid, but Jesus Christ is she irrelevant if she is not grossly ahead of everyone else). Point being, if you went 30-0 against Storm, I won't say it's "luck" per se, but there are a lot of factors at play here. TA simply cannot win an even game against other carrys, which means you got ahead and snowballed hard and nobody on Storm's team in any game won his lane and kept up with you. I also think it would be great if I had allies that didn't lose their lanes every single game and feed, but alas, I'm not that lucky.

    Really, DotA is still a team game, trying to base any argument or logic off your own personal play is, well, laughable at best.




    Oh, and I never had a problem with SF's strength, that was never what I complained about. I had a problem with SF being stupidly easy to play. He's another hero you literally can't stop from farming. You pick a hero like QoP and harass the hell out of him and keep him at 0 cs for the first several minutes? Too bad, he hit level 5 and now he can two shot the whole creep wave for 150 mana. He can clear jungle just as easily, he's going to have 600 gpm no matter what you do. On top of that he hits extremely hard and has a great ultimate, making him a pain in the ass to play against pretty much any game. I said all during ti5 that he was a shit pick in this meta and teams that picked him deserve to lose. Doesn't mean he didn't end up the most farmed hero in every single game he lost.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 08:53 PM.

  10. #19850
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    I'd say when im mid vs sf i almost always kill him atleast 3 times and am able to farm up a blink at 10 mins, i'd consider that heavily beating him mid.
    If your sample size is over 10, you play at your true MMR and you speak the truth then I agree with you, Pudge wins mid against SF in your bracket. Or do you attribute it to luck?

  11. #19851
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    If your sample size is over 10, you play at your true MMR and you speak the truth then I agree with you, Pudge wins mid against SF in your bracket. Or do you attribute it to luck?
    Don't know the exact size but its rather sizeable, and i would say its because people are just dumb as hell, when i go sf i have an easy time vs pudge.

    Maybe my MMR should be higher than it is, maybe it should be lower i don't know.

  12. #19852
    Also, I'll point out that I was 30-0 with Leoric for a while (all games) and enjoyed my spot at top 10 in the world on dotabuff for people who cared about that sort of thing. Sadly, I kept playing him and the odds caught up to me, now I'm only 63% winrate which isn't even one of my top heroes anymore. While I'd like to think I'm one of the greatest right clickers in the world, even a sample size of 30 is extremely tiny. I did beat Viper mid once, that was one of the most fun games of my life.

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/10088644

    Yeah, that's right, I beat Viper as Wraith King mid, I am a mid-god, bow to your king peasants.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 08:59 PM.

  13. #19853
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1794211297
    This is why TA is a shit hero. (I actually consider her somewhere between top and second tier simply because of how safe of a pick she is for mid, but Jesus Christ is she irrelevant if she is not grossly ahead of everyone else). Point being, if you went 30-0 against Storm, I won't say it's "luck" per se, but there are a lot of factors at play here. TA simply cannot win an even game against other carrys, which means you got ahead and snowballed hard and nobody on Storm's team in any game won his lane and kept up with you. I also think it would be great if I had allies that didn't lose their lanes every single game and feed, but alas, I'm not that lucky.
    .
    so you've a bh, and they've a silencer carry?
    you really would use this game as a "proof" ofc she can't carry the game herself like a spectre

    they've no lockdown for you apart from a bane that went aghs. they've no glimmer/solar crest
    Last edited by EqualWin; 2015-09-14 at 09:01 PM.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  14. #19854
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    So you agree you play FotM heroes? Thank you.
    Do I play some FotM heroes? Yes, because I play most mid heroes. Am I a FotM picker? No. Which is what I asked. Thank you.

    4800, look it up, it's not possible to calibrate higher than 4800-4900 or so, try all you want. They put this cap in place to prevent account sellers or something.
    Lol. "Ok". When did you calibrate?

    Occam's Razor. Party matchmaking is more difficult than solo queue. To take this example to the extreme, you will not stomp games as TA if you were in a 5v5 setting, just like RTZ got eliminated from TI5 after two rounds. When the enemy team is organized and has a brain, it's not so easy to be a pubstar, is it? It's only natural that the skill level of pubstars goes way down as more and more players are added to the team and there are fewer and fewer idiots to feed off of.

    It's been said before and I'll say it again for you - MMR means nothing other than your ability to win games. It doesn't prove you're good at this game. The pros know this, and people know this all the way down to shitcan level. For you, that means picking some of the easiest mid laners in the game to guarantee you get your farm and then picking on the worst players in the game to snowball. I'm glad that works for you, any monkey can do that, though, it's not going to impress me.
    .
    Yes, that's why w33 plays SD mid in party ranked and doesn't in solo. That's why s4 goes for the most random shit in party MMR. That's why every pro says they don't try hard in party. That's why I random in party ranked and don't do it in solo.

    MMR means nothing yet every high MMR player got picked up by teams. "Pros know this". Many pros have also said if you're high MMR then you're good at the game, even though it might not translate to the competitive scene. As you say: "you see what you want to see". The same way you said Blitz wouldn't be higher than 4.5k if he didn't play Storm yet he randomed his way back up the ladder to prove his haters wrong.

  15. #19855
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    so you've a bh, and they've a silencer carry?
    you really would use this game as a "proof" ofc she can't carry the game herself like a spectre
    Did you take 3 seconds to actually look at my team's scores or the fact that the TA is 6 slotted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Do I play some FotM heroes? Yes, because I play most mid heroes. Am I a FotM picker? No. Which is what I asked. Thank you.
    Not sure how that's relevant. You play FotM heroes, that was all that was said, not sure why you're trying to argue with it while simultaneously agreeing with it.

    Lol. "Ok". When did you calibrate?
    What were you doing the night of March 13th? Fuck if I remember, it wasn't for some time after matchmaking came out, though, because I refused to play cancer AP or CM. As anyone who played wc3 dota might remember, AP has always been considered shitcan noob mode because gorillas can pick the same 3 heroes their entire life and you can't ban them out or do anythign about it, so you only only need to get good at 2% of the game to be a "good player."

    Yes, that's why w33 plays SD mid in party ranked and doesn't in solo. That's why s4 goes for the most random shit in party MMR. That's why every pro says they don't try hard in party. That's why I random in party ranked and don't do it in solo.

    MMR means nothing yet every high MMR player got picked up by teams. "Pros know this". Many pros have also said if you're high MMR then you're good at the game, even though it might not translate to the competitive scene. As you say: "you see what you want to see". The same way you said Blitz wouldn't be higher than 4.5k if he didn't play Storm yet he randomed his way back up the ladder to prove his haters wrong.
    People don't take party MMR seriously because the community has decided party MMR doesn't mean anything. This is probably an accurate assessment to make, as "party MMR" doesn't differentiate between 2 "stacks" and 5 man teams, and you even frequently get solo queuers on your team. None of this has anything to do with party matchmaking being harder than solo, both can be true at the same time. The fact that there's no way for party MMR to accurately portray someone's skill AND it's a harder environment to excel in as a solo player is just double the reason to not play seriously. Your argument really isn't relevant.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 09:03 PM.

  16. #19856
    Deleted
    Is the skill difference between 5k and 6k really that high or is it more game understanding ?

  17. #19857
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Also, I'll point out that I was 30-0 with Leoric for a while (all games) and enjoyed my spot at top 10 in the world on dotabuff for people who cared about that sort of thing.
    Another lie. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/9387...zone=Etc%2FUTC.

  18. #19858
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Did you take 3 seconds to actually look at my team's scores or the fact that the TA is 6 slotted
    i look that ur team feed and also ur bounty has good items, in the enemy team only ta has good items.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  19. #19859
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Not at all, games weren't counted the same back then. Though I have no way to prove it, I assure you my record was 28-0 at the highlight of my dotabuff ladder career.

    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    i look that ur team feed and also ur bounty has good items, in the enemy team only ta has good items.
    Bounty literally always has items unless his team has literally 0 kills. All I really wanted to point out is that a 6 slotted TA can't even touch a 6 slotted AM, and there are even better carrys for stomping her into the ground. She only wins by being massively ahead, if you even keep even with her she is a ghost. And she sure did farm my teammates while she was massively ahead of them until I decided it was time for the game to be over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    Is the skill difference between 5k and 6k really that high or is it more game understanding ?
    Considering there are only a couple hundred 6k players in the world, the skill difference between them and 5k is probably pretty big. It's an exponential graph, just like the 7ks are much better than the 6ks. But, as you go lower down the totem pole the difference becomes less profound.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 09:09 PM.

  20. #19860
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Oh, right. Where was your dotabuff of that 30-0 then? Far as I can tell from your dotabuff postings, this is you. And what I'm seeing is still a glaring disparity in W/L ratio on the hero, but...

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