1. #10561
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Me and my friend were thinking, How fast could you make a computer if you did not have to worry about it's security??
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  2. #10562
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Me and my friend were thinking, How fast could you make a computer if you did not have to worry about it's security??
    I'm not sure that's a useful way to think about computer science as it applies to hardware or software. OpenBSD has a fantastic track record for security but that's not a goal of the operating system unless you want to count "safe defaults" as a security goal. The way they earned their reputation is by focusing on code correctness: it's simple, understandable, uncomplicated, and generally focuses on 'getting it right'. They don't mind breaking compatibility with 0.x releases if that comes as a side effect of code correctness (this is an attitude that isn't shared by Linux or Windows). None of the major operating system vendors or computer makers are shipping software or hardware* they intend to be insecure, that's a side effect of other concerns; it's the side effect of software behaving in unexpected and unintended ways.

    When you have a program running it should only ever access memory it's allocated: if you've never said "I want to do stuff with address X" then any time you access address X must be a mistake. Likewise, if you say "I was using X, but I'm done with it now so take it away" then any time after that you can consider accessing X to be a program error. We don't want our programs to run when they're full of bugs because they destroy things: they compute invalid values, the damage hardware, they waste power, and the results are typically useless. One of the things you learn pretty early on in your undergrad systems programming courses is that crashing early is a good thing. A blue screen of death is way better than letting a buggy program—or worse, a buggy kernel—continue to run. When programs behave in unexpected ways, they should crash.

    As OpenBSD demonstrates: a huge portion of what we sell as 'security' measures are also 'correctness' measures** so questions like "how much does security slow me down" can also be thought of as "how incorrect am I prepared to let this program be without crashing". If you give zero concerns about security then you're saying you give zero concerns for correctness: and I can make a perfectly incorrect program run very fast (it'll just 'return -1' and die). Presumably you care that there's at least some semblance of correctness so it becomes more a question of accounting for what correctness measures and their impact.

    One of the major issues is that mechanisms for ensuring correctness become increasingly costly as their generality increases. For example: if you want 100 programs to start, and stop and random your virtual memory system has to be considerably more complicated than if there's just a supervisor process and a running child (just allocate all memory to the child process and trust it to account for what address space is in use: you can save a whole pile of kernel time and drastically simplify your VMM. The downside to this approach is that you end up tweaking allocation by hand like you're on System 7 and nobody has time for that any more. Worse, even if you did get it right, changing environments (e.g. you want run 1 more program, or your data set grows to large) leaves you in the lurch with a program that has to crash.

    Mac OS and Windows 3.x ran with considerably lower overhead than modern operating systems but they were also crashy unreliable nightmares. Those crashes are the sort of thing than leads to exploits because there were fewer safety barriers to keep programs behaving.

    To answer this question you'd have to break down what counts as a 'security' measure vs what counts as a 'correctness' measure and then we can start to sum up the overhead, but for now the question is under specified.


    * Ignoring companies like Western Digital and Lenovo who sold intentionally back-doored products.
    ** Here I'm ignoring things like full disk encryption where at least in principle this need not exist for a correctly functioning system.

  3. #10563
    Bit of an upgrade from the old 16/1 ADSL:

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  4. #10564
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    We actually had an upgrade pushed out by Comcast the other day, too.

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  5. #10565
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    This is mine. I find it funny I have a higher upload speed than down, and even higher than some of your guys upload even though my down is not so good. This is way better than what I had early last year though.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  6. #10566
    9ms ping, 180.29Mbps down, 6.09 Mbps up
    Faster than 81% of US
    Comcast (ugh)

    I wonder how SpeedTest calculates the "faster than" percent. I'm sure my upload speed is weighing me down. It would also explain why @Butler Log would be faster than 94% of DE with just 88 Mbps down.

    Odd thing is, I signed up (a couple years ago, now) for the 75 Mbps package and haven't changed anything. I did get a notification they were increasing speeds (about one year ago), but it was only to 100 or 120 Mbps. Comcast being generous? That doesn't compute... Also, I've never seen 180 Mbps down in the wild. Highest I've seen is from Steam at around 120.


    @apepi - Could that just be noise from one run?

  7. #10567
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    It might be line saturation with apepi, too. Some companies might still assign several households to roughly the same boxy thingy words.

    As for calculating "faster than", I did a few runs back in... 2012 on speed test. I think. It's in the "how fast(..)" mega-thread at least. You can use the in-thread search function to find my posts and see.
    Upload is very much factored in, as can be seen in tests taken the same day, with both download over 90 (97 and 92?), but upload 80 and 88, and that the higher upload with lower download got a higher score, comparatively.

  8. #10568
    http://www.speedtest.net/result/6954978860 190/60 over my crumby Apple wireless network.

    One of the most challenging things about finding a ranch/farm to move to is locating one that has a good terrestrial internet connection. I don't mind running my own well/pump for water or solar + diesel to generate power, but I'm not paying thousands to get a company to string a bit of fibre to my door.

  9. #10569
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    @apepi
    I'll have to upload my college's numbers next time we have a LAN party. :P

    Last time (Nov 2017) it was like 220 down, 240 up. Insanity.
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  10. #10570
    At work I'm seeing this: http://www.speedtest.net/result/6956460184

    I wonder if I can find a usb-c network adapter somewhere because that's certainly limited by being wifi: I'm getting identical speeds on my cellphone. I'm kind of amazed how fast wifi has become. At that speed a typical spinning-rust hard disk is a serious contender for slowing your download. Wired networks may have slightly better reliability or improved latency but it seems like the case for stringing wires around the home are pretty weak these days.

  11. #10571
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    At work I'm seeing this: http://www.speedtest.net/result/6956460184

    I wonder if I can find a usb-c network adapter somewhere because that's certainly limited by being wifi: I'm getting identical speeds on my cellphone. I'm kind of amazed how fast wifi has become. At that speed a typical spinning-rust hard disk is a serious contender for slowing your download. Wired networks may have slightly better reliability or improved latency but it seems like the case for stringing wires around the home are pretty weak these days.
    Mining ZEC
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  12. #10572
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    Yeah, the nice thing about QAM is that you can always increase data throughput by increasing the number of bits your symbols represent, with 256-QAM being part of the standard since 802.11ac the only worrying thing for normal consumers about wifi is the fact that some locations are full of different networks using the same frequencies which means you can't really use all the time-slots. The 5GHz band is still hugely underused, there are way too many old 2.4GHz only routers being used.

    At 5/6 coding rate, a 80MHz channel and a 256-QAM modulation, you can already transfer at ~1.7 Gbps. On top of that you can still go slightly out of the spec with 1024-QAM (broadcom for example supports it, should be in the spec with 802.11ax) and aggregate multiple channels. You can also achieve ridiculous throughput (7 Gpbs) with 802.11ad without using extensions to the spec, since your carriers go at the 60Hz band and you can have higher bandwidth per channel there (the standard uses 2.16GHz wide channels).

    Sincerely speaking wifi stopped being an issue in most situations, I think it's still a good idea to run cables when you need/want the reliability and predictability of running isolated networks, but for most people there's not really a difference unless you're running your wifi in bad conditions to begin with.
    Last edited by Artorius; 2018-01-13 at 07:28 PM.

  13. #10573
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    I hate you all. I live in the country having shitty internet, I am excited with the possibility of even having the potential of being able to broadcast 720p.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  14. #10574
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    I hate you all. I live in the country having shitty internet, I am excited with the possibility of even having the potential of being able to broadcast 720p.
    Are broadcast requirements different than watching a stream? I could watch 720p videos from Youtube with my previous ISP on slow as shit DSL (5.5 down / <1 up). If you're in the 25+ range, then I'd think you'd be able to stream 1080p, honestly. You didn't specify the fps, either, which would have an effect, too.

    To think the FCC wants to drop the standards for high speed broadband from 25 Mbps to 10 Mbps... *shakes head*

  15. #10575
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alindra View Post
    Are broadcast requirements different than watching a stream? I could watch 720p videos from Youtube with my previous ISP on slow as shit DSL (5.5 down / <1 up). If you're in the 25+ range, then I'd think you'd be able to stream 1080p, honestly. You didn't specify the fps, either, which would have an effect, too.

    To think the FCC wants to drop the standards for high speed broadband from 25 Mbps to 10 Mbps... *shakes head*
    In a ISDB-T digital TV system, each broadcasted channel will be around 23 Mbps on a 64QAM modulation and 5.6MHz bandwidth. The streams usually consist of MPEG-2 (or MPEG-4/AVC in newer implementations of the standard) 720p/1080i video with AAC audio.

  16. #10576
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    And the prices of video cards go sky high again, this time taking even the 1080Tis as victim.

  17. #10577
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    No! OG YouTube app is dead, it was so useful....
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  18. #10578
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    What's your worst thing you did to a computer in your life?

    I can think of two: one, accidentally causing my computer to light itself on fire or the time when i was really young and though that the root of C was so cluttered with all of those files like command.com, autoexec.sys, config.sys, etc., and deleted them all...

  19. #10579
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    What's your worst thing you did to a computer in your life?

    I can think of two: one, accidentally causing my computer to light itself on fire or the time when i was really young and though that the root of C was so cluttered with all of those files like command.com, autoexec.sys, config.sys, etc., and deleted them all...
    Honestly? Nothin'.
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  20. #10580
    <snip: that was more personally identifying than I'd like>

    TLDR version: the CEO of Apple lied and said I make nice latté art today.
    Last edited by evn; 2018-01-23 at 02:17 AM.

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