Blizzard and 25man raiding.

[Deleted]

I've been wondering a lot recently why Blizzard haven't stated anywhere that they may create an incentive towards 25man raiding again.

I know a lot of people prefer 25mans (My guild is a perfect example, as we went 10man halfway through FL and we lost a lot of members because of this, both raid team wise and socially.)
A lot of people I've spoken to that have unsubbed have also said that they no longer felt a desire to log on and raid because the 10man atmosphere is lacking in a lot of things 25man raiding had.

Even looking on websites such as wowprogress, there is such an inflation of 10man guilds that it's very difficult to get into a high end 25man raiding guild when there is so much competition from other players at the same level that prefer 25man raiding, which it seems a lot of people do, but then again 10man raiding is more convenient.

I feel personally that part of the reason for the increase in lost subscriptions is because there is no longer a need for 25man guilds, and quite often 10man guilds have a smaller social side.

Just wondering what MMO's opinions on this are.

[Resentful]

Still subbed and been doing 10 man for awhile now, However only reason I stopped 25 man raiding was because I was distraught over it / Drama issues. I wanted less of that and so I went to 10 man and It's working even though I just got my legendaries which urks me but that's another story. If there was anymore incentive to do 25 man; I'll probably go back to it however there isn't unless you wanna compete within the so called E-race but I haven't cared for that since I left my T11 guild long ago for that or +++ More legendaries which isn't even an incentive just well a + other then that I'm not dealing with 25 any longer unless well there's obviously better incentives but there's not.

[Chaochamp]

I am still subbed and I enjoy 25 man raiding. 25 people just seems more 'correct' than 10 people killing some big boss. 10 man guilds feel a lot more cliquey than 25 mans, and the opportunity to be recruited to a 10 man guild is greatly diminished just from the amount of people required. It's a lot easier to get 10 good people that can maintain a good connection / skill than getting 25 man people to do that exact thing.

[Deleted]

I agree with you Chry, well. I think you're putting across a point that I agree with

10man raiding is usually easier to co-ordinate, but there's something about 25mans that just makes them feel more like an epic battle, and on some fights the co-ordination of 25 people coming together to do the same thing is kinda awesome.

[Resentful]

I agree with you Chry, well. I think you're putting across a point that I agree with

10man raiding is usually easier to co-ordinate, but there's something about 25mans that just makes them feel more like an epic battle, and on some fights the co-ordination of 25 people coming together to do the same thing is kinda awesome.

Well of course because 25 still seems like an ACTUAL raid

[Shruikah]

Still subbed and currently back doing 25man. I was in a 10man guild with friends for firelands but it just didn't feel right, I enjoy 25man a lot more.

[deejraven]

I am still subbed, but honestly once my year commitment is up so I get D3 for free I am more than likely going to drop it, I enjoyed both 10 and 25 man raiding but work schedule and everything else is cutting into any possible raiding I can do too much.

[scadouche]

25 man raiding only. 10 man feels pathetic and tbh it's only something I'll goof around with an alt when bored.

[Deleted]

Logisitically running a 10 man is a hell of a lot easier than running a 25 man.
I find that as GM of a 25 man raid team I am forever being asked questions, chasing people, sorting recruitment, any number of jobs just to get people ready for a couple of hours of enjoyment. there is also having to coach people in what to do, watch out for, and try to help people get over thier mistakes, whilst trying to enjoy the game myself.

But you know what ? I wouldnt change back to 10 mans for anything. We had a lot of people quit over the christmas period which lead us to do 10 mans, it felt horrendously wrong. yes orginising a group was easier, yes I had less to do. But it was boring. I find the challenge of running (with a Decent team of officers) a 25 man guild a more than rewarding incentive than additional loot.

I do however wish that they would make it so the regular raiders had more of an incentive to raid 25 man. might make recruitment a lot easier.

[Tietoso]

if 25m raiding guilds are dying is probably because no one was really interested in running them in the first place.

[Deleted]

I am not currently subbed. I did a lot of 25men in TBC, and Wrath. In Cataclysm, I had to join the 10men format, because I changed guild (a smaller one).
The lack of stimulus for 25men is somewhat partially involved in my decision. I think pvp balance and quality of PvE content are bigger reasons for my decision.

[sinkraze]

Doing 25s currently subbed

[sandros]

25 is brute, how about an awkward number like 8 man raids?

[Sprucelee]

Well put together poll. Will be interesting to see the results, as it is stated commonly "people prefer 10-man raiding" due to the shift in numbers.

I always argue that it is just due to it being easier to assemble, and people would do 5-mans, or even solo stuff if it gave the same gear. Though it doesn't mean they "enjoy" it more.

[Snuggie]

I'm still subbed, and although I do prefer 25s I also enjoy 10 mans as well. I'm also an easily entertained person, though.

If I get into a 25 man raiding group, awesome. If I'm stuck with just 10s, that's cool as well. I'm happy either way.

I'll admit, however, my best raiding memories did come from when I was raiding 25s.

[Pancaspe]

Of course I am subbed, why wouldn't I be?

25 man progression guild.

[Talen]

I do however wish that they would make it so the regular raiders had more of an incentive to raid 25 man. might make recruitment a lot easier.

Yes.

By ensuring people who be obliged to run 25s for whatever reward or incentive you offer. It may just be a title or new mount but ultimately...players would be raiding that format solely for the reward, rather than because they enjoy it.

Kinda like you and 10 mans.

EJL

[Duridi]

Before you read further, I do believe that those that post on the forums give an indication of what the overall community thinks. We like to refer to it as the "Vocal Minority", but in reality the forum camps also exist in the game without being vocal about it. What the forum does however, is giving a false impression of how many % of the players we are talking about with that spesific opinion. This can make all complaints look equally common.

Second thing I want to point out is that I think Blizzard can interpret their data wrongfully in some cases. Looking purely at numbers, you would think the majority of the players had a prefence for 10 man. They can take samples of players and question them on the subject, and get an indication from that. In fact, as far as I can remember, they did so last year. I recived a very large survey last year, together with many others, where some of the questions were related to raid size. They might have recieved a vey large preference for 10 man from giving out that survey.

Then you have another example. A lot of people quit playing during Cataclysm. The fact that they reduced difficulty etc., gives an indication that they believe people left because the game got too hard for them. So does their own statements tell. Again, they had a survey. Everyone that quit is given 5 questions. One of them is about difficulty, and if I remember correctly, also 10 vs. 25 man were one of those 5 questions. The last one I am not 100% sure about. Someone that quit more recently would have to confirm or dismiss that one.

That said, I do believe 10 and 25 man are very balanced at this point, and can't think of anything that would not put 10 man back in the spot it was during WotLK, which was a very bad place.

Intended as food for your mind.

Ask yourself if maybe you are a vocal minority.

---------- Post added 2012-03-13 at 09:26 AM ----------

I always argue that it is just due to it being easier to assemble

The funny part is, most people forget that as a regular member you don't have to lift a finger when it comes to guild managerment as any raider. Can't really make people understand that concept though.

I wrote a more detailed explaination about it a while back, here it is;

Here is the thing.

Judging by any public forum, or chat ingame, people have this illusion that "25 mans are so much harder to organise". The truth is, it's harder to create a 25 man guild because you need to seek more individual members than a 10 man. Maintaining it is as I said in my previous post, down to the individual guild and not it's size. The task of maintaining and organising the guild itself, is also down to the leadership and not something the members should feel the intensity of. If ordinary members do feel the intensity of it, there is something wrong with the leadership.

Most people go with the flow and don't think outside the box. This causes many to go with the flow, and right now 25 man has a reputation saying it's so much harder to maintain. The result of that is that those who don't stop and think for themselves, while also wanting the easiest route, pick 10 man because they believe it is less work.

After that, you have those people who simply do not care what size the raid has. Those will end up where there are more choices. Right now, there are more choices between 10 man guilds than 25 man.

[Deleted]

Im in 10men alt guild, and we raid only 1 (max 2) / week, it fits my free time and we are 7/8 (heroic ofc)

ps. I can hardly get serious anyone with pony avatar, signature or common shit

[BatteredRose]

I am still subbed and I enjoy 25 man raiding. 25 people just seems more 'correct' than 10 people killing some big boss. 10 man guilds feel a lot more cliquey than 25 mans, and the opportunity to be recruited to a 10 man guild is greatly diminished just from the amount of people required. It's a lot easier to get 10 good people that can maintain a good connection / skill than getting 25 man people to do that exact thing.

May as well bring back 40m raids, or go even higher. :P

I'm not sure how many 10m guilds you know though, but the ones I've encountered have several raid groups.