The Brutes Tavern: Warrior Discussion Thread

[Arajal]

I know you said it before but if people read your second comment alone they might get the impression that you say fire>= force, which is why I had to state it again.

Ah, fair enough.

[Dempsey]

Is this with or without fury?


As I said previously, this is wrong. You'll do more damage with "force". If HB does 25k dmg, adding force would mean you now do 1250dmg more while fire only does something around 600-700dmg.

1.) with fury, I run about 3600 attack 67% cirt chance at max, 93 crit damage and 3k armor, the high armor I have made me sacrifice about 14-16% crit chance but I am rather tanky and still deal great damage so it makes duels in WvW rather easy, especially against thieves and gs warriors XD lol
2.) Is unfortunately wrong, any damage +%'s like sigil of force or beserkers might don't make the actual attack deal more damage the math is actually (power X Damage%)+(power after modifiers i.e. signet of might/banner of strength sigil of bloodlust)+(average weapon damage)= attack damage
mine for instance would be (2285x17%{sigil of force and beserkers might})+(2375{2625 with maxed sigil of bloodlust})+978=3741.45 (3991.45 with maxed sigil of bloodlust)which then is used to scale the damage of the weapons attack which is usually some ratio that.
for gs 100b that dealt 25k you would probably only see a 600-700 damage increase. but then again if you're only doing 25k with 3800+attack you need crit chance not straight damage.
TLR the argument of force vs fire is a bit wrong, as fire will do about as much damage to each target and hit more targets.

[Meledelion]

Do you have a source for your algorithm? This is the first time I come across it and I've visited quite some forums regarding min-maxing.

Other various passive effects that increase the attacker's outgoing damage or a target's incoming damage, including those from upgrade components, traits, nourishment, etc

I'll test it once I have acces to my home PC again though.

If I understand it right you're saying that the actual formula isn't what wiki lists ((dmg = weapon dmg*power*skill specifc coefficient)/armor)
but that it is: dmg = (weapon dmg * (power*1,dmg coefficient)* skill specific coefficient)/armor)

The reason I find this odd is due to it being a power(might) coefficient then and this would make it affect condition damage, which isn't the case.
(and now I'm wondering if it's affect or effect...)

[Dempsey]

well the wiki is made from various sources, I am sure the work is checked by the community.
I first came across this after making a post on my warriors build where I calculated the attack gained from beserkers might and the gw2guru.com community corrected my math stating that the damage modifiers such as force and beserkers might are based off of power. and explained it the way I did.
However if I am wrong I am sorry but it still remains that a 25k 100b would not do 26250 with a sigil of force, and that was my basic point.
Also i believe the context would be effect.

[Meledelion]

I'm not saying you're wrong nor am I saying that I'm right. I'm saying that your math can be right but I simply would like to know where it comes from. And as you said, it would influence power,the issue with this would be that this should be noticeable when you have conditions running (which would be weird since people have been nagging since beta that +% dmg favors direct damage over conditions) and it isn't.

25000*0.05(5% or 5/100) = 1250 => 1 250+25 000 = 26 250

I've been browsing the internet for a while and I haven't come across your formula yet. So far in all threads I've raid it's force>air(single target which is the case 90%of the time)>fire. Although air does more dmg single target than force, force wins due to it having effect on cleave damage and being "controllable" (the mob you want to target will be hit by it and not the mob that standing behind your target, technically it is but I mean both are instead of one...

Edit again:
The only data I found all seem to indicate that sigil of force (5%dmg) indeed does 5% dmg at the end of the calculation and not as you had listed.
Some numbers:
110 without 115 with (lb ranger)
96 without 101 with (axe ranger)
I also found someone stating the DR of crit which is indeed 60 (ish) % as I've been tossing around

[Dempsey]

Well there is only a pseudo diminishing return to critical damage and that's because its only comparable stat is power.
So really if you where to run around with say 2000 attack and 80 critical damage your efficiency would be low, because you could sacrifice critical damage to gain more power, thus making the hits you do not critical do more damage while the hits you do critical would have a greater base damage for the critical damage to work off of.
On the opposite side if you have 3800 attack and 20 critical damage your non criticals will hit hard while your critical hits would only hit a little harder than your normals and since they only hit slightly harder and you were running 80% critical chance lets say you would pretty much be wasting the stats in precision and critical damage.
So builds that have 36-7-800 attack and 100 critical damage are going to be be hitting the hardest at all times as the have the best base hits, and that base being the best makes the critical damage more efficient. Meaning that while running around with 3600+ attack and 90+ critical damage the defining factor becomes precision and how much of a chance that the critical damage is going to be used.
IIRC every 1% of crit damage is like 7 points of power, finding the balance in these with crit chance in your build is what makes them either useful or unuseful.
Really if you break down each stat the only stat that has DR is toughness. Now that doesn't mean that vit is better because the graph for damage absorbing between the 2 is an awkward looking roller coaster so the safest bet is to find a health balance between the 2.

I will test a sigil of force today and see how it acts, my average crit is 2500-3200 (Depending on how many vulnerability stacks i put on) so if what you found is true i should be hitting for 2600-3300 which is better then bloodlust, as I like no one can stay up 100% of the time so the static increase would be much better.

As far as I knew the +% modifiers for condition damage are the duration increases, everyone just likes seeing the big numbers and they carry that mind set to condition builds and get disappointed.

[Arajal]

As far as I knew the +% modifiers for condition damage are the duration increases, everyone just likes seeing the big numbers and they carry that mind set to condition builds and get disappointed.

I think the biggest issue (or at least one of the big issues) people have found with condition builds is the fact that they lose a lot of power in group situations, where many people are applying the same condition. While I can't speak with certainty about Poison or Burning, I know for a fact that Bleed suffers a lot in said situations due to the cap of 25 stacks. Once that stack has reached its cap, it will continue to do the same amount of damage regardless of the number of people still applying the condition. It's part of the reason I don't use my sword(s) in groups unless I notice a sever lack of bleeds on targets.

[jaakkeli]

I think the biggest issue (or at least one of the big issues) people have found with condition builds is the fact that they lose a lot of power in group situations, where many people are applying the same condition. While I can't speak with certainty about Poison or Burning, I know for a fact that Bleed suffers a lot in said situations due to the cap of 25 stacks.

Poison and Burning suffer even worse as they only stack duration and a character speccing conditions can easily keep full uptime on those. Eg. a thief using poison abilities will easily keep several mobs poisoned permanently which means another character using poison in the same group is completely useless. And it gets even worse because lots of characters can poison or burn mobs close to permanently even when they're not condition specced, eg. most thieves use a shortbow as a ranged swap weapon and it gives you a spammable poison aoe field.

[Dempsey]

well I did some of my own little tests in a lvl 80 zone for the +% modifier, using besekers might (#5 in strength tree) running 30 min with and 30 without, the only other variable was might which i kept 8 stacks for 15 min and 15 min without.
I noticed that when running without might the highest crit I did without the #5 was around 2200+ and the highest with the #5 was around 2400+ which is a little less than 12% effectivness.
However while running that 8 stacks of might the highest crit without #5 was 2400+ and the highest with #5 was around 2700+ which is a little more effective than the 12% gained.

I get that exact numbers would really help but i wanted to try it out and such.

[Lane]

So, for a glass warrior do they use all Berserker's gear? I was also wondering if there's anything karma-wise I can get or if I'm stuck shelling out gold at the TP. :P

[Meledelion]

Yup full berserker. I wouldn't buy the armour of tp though, CoF is easy to farm and depending on howmany 80s you have you can grind a full set in 4-5h playtime.
I'd just get the rare version.

The gear should be slotted with ruby orbs since those give the best guaranteed dps, scholar comes out ahead if you can keep yourself at +90% hp.

[Deleted]

So, for a glass warrior do they use all Berserker's gear? I was also wondering if there's anything karma-wise I can get or if I'm stuck shelling out gold at the TP. :P

You won't find any berzerker karma gear, but I was able to get some excellent results with the Balthazar gear and a dual wield sword build, focussing on crits and bleeds.

[Arajal]

Meledelion and Targetter pretty much hit it straight-on. There's no version of Berserker's available for Karma, so your main routes for getting it are crafting or dungeons. Both CoF and CoE have armor sets with Berserker stats, so if you run into DRs or otherwise don't want to do CoF, CoE is a good place to hit as well.

I think SE or CM also has a berserker set, but I'm not sure on those.

[Lane]

First world problems: Ideally, I was wanting a set of level 79 rare Berserker gear (or even greens would be acceptable), except that doesn't exist. The best I can do is level 78 exotic gear, which is 2x+ the price. I wanted sub-80 because otherwise I'll have to get Fine Transmutation Stones, which is additional $$.

I can't seem to figure out a way to get the armor I want with the stats I want that isn't going to end up being a copious loss of gold. Either through gold->gems->fine transmutation stones or buying the exotics from the TP. Combine this with the fact that I won't be able to salvage any of it if I ever upgrade if I want to keep the skin (which in this case is T2 cultural), so either way that's going to be a loss too. Blah! :P

[Meledelion]

T2 doesn't cost a lot so if you get other gear sets I'd just buy another set of T2.
Just rock the (ugly) lvl 80 rare gear until you get everything exotic this'll cost 2.5g or so.

[Lane]

Does anyone have a link to what the ideal glass warrior build is supposed to be? I'm wondering if I've done my traits right. Also, what is the "sonic boon" build? Is that for glass warriors to use in dungeons or something else?

Do you just stick to GS/rifle in dungeons? What about soloing? I was switching between GS and 2x axes, but lately I've been playing around with 1H sword + axe (and bow whenever I want ranged AoE). Warrior's the only class I play where I don't feel like most of my weapon abilities suck. :P So I keep one of just about everything on hand.

[Meledelion]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJAR...2SFKD;TIArRGFA
Stack full ruby orbs/jewels, after sigil of quickness trigers swap weapons and go ham. If you don't like that sigil, battle works as well.

If you need a ranged weapon for a certain fight then pop in a rifle and switch some talents.

Sonic Boon I don't like the healing/defensive part since it's not needed imo.

[Lane]

Er, yeah, that is not even close to what I have. Then again, looking at my build it doesn't appear I've changed it since I was doing GS/dual axe. :P

Okay, so, comparing traits, I can see why they went with what they did. What about slot skills though? Those look fine for groups, but are they optimal for soloing? Are signets worse than they appear? (Wouldn't be the first time a skill read better than it performs.)

[Meledelion]

For soloing you can grab frenzy and endure pain instead of omm and the banner. If you're confident in your skill you don't need to take endure pain and can stick with either signet of might or omm.

The problem with signets is that you waste one trait the moment you use them and if you don't use them you're wasting another trait (deep strike and signet mastery). The second issue is that warriors have so much crit thanks to their awesome Fury uptime that more crit actually doesn't help, my war (only missing ascended amulet and earrings) has 63% crit without fury (83% with) if you add the 200prec from sigils you're going to get up to 72% crit without fury.

You might say oh but now I crit 10% more so I do better dps right? Well no, crit ch (cc), crit dmg and power are all intertwined. To go even further they are also combined with raw dmg % boosts (sigil of force for example), which you can get a lot of as a warrior (152%) and you lose a lot of those modifiers if you go with signets.

TLDR signets seem to compliment dmg while in fact you're trading off X*40 prec for x seconds and you're trading off one offensive cd for 40prec. (I'd have to change my SS so it doesn't include max vuln/might when you switch to a signet build which I cba with)

edit:
These numbers are without using banner of disc, if you add the 70prec 10%cd you'll be up to 91% cc and 239%crit dmg.

Another note, when soloing it might be beneficial to actually drop rending strikes for the prec/signet and grab healing signet, signet of might and signet of fury + banner/fgj this way you should be able to hit 100% crit without sacrificing power/crit dmg.

Did the math, you'd get 95.48% cc (if you haven't used healing signet and 93,57% if you have used it) and you'd get 2more might stacks.
Ofcourse you lose vulnerability but since normal pve mobs get close to oneshot anyways that doesn't matter that much

!FINAL EDIT!
This build actually does more dmg (when you can't WW against a wall but most pugs can't set up properly so yea...) by a fair margin if you go with the premise that vuln/might are kept up to 25stacks regardless of what weapon you're using.

[Lane]

!FINAL EDIT!
This build actually does more dmg (when you can't WW against a wall but most pugs can't set up properly so yea...) by a fair margin if you go with the premise that vuln/might are kept up to 25stacks regardless of what weapon you're using.

Ugh, I really hate how there are 18 different build websites for GW2. I miss the days of WoW where everyone used the Wowhead talent calculator and if you didn't it was like, WTF? I can't even tell what he picked for his slot skills, if he picked any.

He also says the build is specific for dungeons, not for solo play. Since I don't plan to run dungeons much (or at all) I feel like this build probably isn't optimized for my style of play.