Why do people assume if the game has its own RMT, it will stop bots?

[Jangri-]

...
I simply stated that if you think ArenaNet decided to combat RMT by providing their own RMT with the intentions of reducing RMT for hacks, etc.. you are wrong.
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Instead, they want a piece of the profit.

Naturaly. And so what? Players will still benefir from the system, and the company earns extra well deserved cash for making a good game.

[Blznsmri]

The cost of healthcare is just an excuse the government likes to use.

Their own figures say the total cost of smoking in Australia (2005) was $31 billion dollars.
That's made up of:
$318.4m – Health (paid for via taxes)
$5,749.1m – Lost production in Workforce (meaning wasted work hours, like coffee drinkers)
$9,843.1m – Lost production in the home (meaning what? people not watching TV?)
$136.4m – Fires (paid for via taxes)

So the real total cost to taxpayers was – $454.8m
Revenue collected via tobacco taxes – $2864.1m

So they made six times the costs... where does that money go? The Queen?

[Wikram]

As people have stated, RMT will always be there, it's just hopefully going to be lessened. Also, i hope most people have the common sense to give their money to Anet and not third parties, but people will do anything to save a few bucks.

When I was a GM I banned all the time for gold buying. -__-

It just took a lot of work. To most players it seems a company isn't banning Billy Twinswords quick enough. Yet in actuality the staff are working/getting around to it. Depending on the size of the team this can go quicker, but it never goes quickly.

It'll be fine.

Mind if i ask what game you were GM in?

[Shadzta]

Except that most players who buy gold don't end up actually getting banned.

If you think of it, it is a business. If people got banned everytime someone bought gold, they wouldn't make very much money at all. Yet we see news articles saying RMT is a billion dollar business. They can steal all the accounts they want, but you eventually have to sell it to make money.


The only difference is that instead of making people fear of buying gold, they encourage it through their company so they can make a piece of the pie.

either way mif is right...if there is a legit option that helps the company and a non legit option ask yourself right now...are you going to buy from bots? if there is no demand they go out of business...people won't start up illegal shit if someone can just go well the legit way is safer and easier. Thus the DEMAND for an illegal gold selling company etc doesnt exist etc.

[Niwoe]

either way mif is right...if there is a legit option that helps the company and a non legit option ask yourself right now...are you going to buy from bots? if there is no demand they go out of business...people won't start up illegal shit if someone can just go well the legit way is safer and easier. Thus the DEMAND for an illegal gold selling company etc doesnt exist etc.

We've been saying for years that the only reason RMT exists is because gamers USE the system. Anyone who is now saying that Anet is P2W is not taking into account the fact that ppl do it anyway. If they don't offer the option- they just buy from a third party. It happens all the time. Supply vs. demand is the rule here- if Anet has the ability to buy gems- which can become in game currency- then ppl will not use the third party.

[Mif]

We've been saying for years that the only reason RMT exists is because gamers USE the system.

Exactly. And as I said before, you buy gems off ArenaNet, not gold. If the community is against it they wouldn't sell their gold for gems.

[Standing]

It seems to me they are adding an incentive for people to bot to farm gold. Adding items which can only be gotten with real life money, which in turn can be traded for with gold (via gem trading), means some people will start farming gold. We know how a lot of players are with such things.

I agree gold selling via third parties will be reduced, but it will still exist too. This has been pointed out by example ad nauseum. Other games with similar systems still have gold sellers.

[DrakeWurrum]

It seems to me they are adding an incentive for people to bot to farm gold. Adding items which can only be gotten with real life money, which in turn can be traded for with gold (via gem trading), means some people will start farming gold. We know how a lot of players are with such things.

I agree gold selling via third parties will be reduced, but it will still exist too. This has been pointed out by example ad nauseum. Other games with similar systems still have gold sellers.

Consider this: EVE Online uses almost the exact same system. When they introduced their system, all the spammers and bots and currency-selling ads that were virally rampant in the game.... almost completely disappeared.

It was reduced so dramatically that you might not even notice it.

Now consider this: Why try to make money by selling gold in GW2, when you can make MORE money by selling gold in WoW? There are no player-driven systems in WoW that will force you to lower your price.

[Zeek Daniels]

As expected, you where able to buy gems and trade them for gold or other items; that's not a problem at all to me. Guild Wars has always been completely cosmetic, there's nothing to gain other than looks when it comes to gold.
[/B][/U]

Anet isnt the one putting a gold value on gems it is the consumer who decides that value. If illegal companies are putting prices on gold all you have to do is undercut them. Their is no X amount of gems = Y amount of gold. The price will vary based on the buyer and seller. This will reduce the number of selling sites as alot of players will just use the ingame AH as it is 100% safe.

[Standing]

Consider this: EVE Online uses almost the exact same system. When they introduced their system, all the spammers and bots and currency-selling ads that were virally rampant in the game.... almost completely disappeared.

It was reduced so dramatically that you might not even notice it.

Now consider this: Why try to make money by selling gold in GW2, when you can make MORE money by selling gold in WoW? There are no player-driven systems in WoW that will force you to lower your price.

According to Massively article from March 1, 2012, botters still exist in Eve.

I will add a quote, only because I apply it to myself often, but it's applicable.

“And guesses-just so we're clear-are merely expressions of prejudice.”
Michael Crichton, January 17 2003, Caltech Michelin Lecture

[DrakeWurrum]

botters still exist in Eve.

It was reduced so dramatically that you might not even notice it.

I never said they stopped existing. It's hard to measure exactly what happened, but their visible presence reduced a lot, so the system clearly worked.
You might notice that the article says "the total number of accounts actioned against was more than 1000 and less than 2000."
That's a slow weekend for Blizzard.

This isn't a matter of me guessing, this is a matter of you putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

[Standing]

I never said they stopped existing. It's hard to measure exactly what happened, but their visible presence reduced a lot, so the system clearly worked.
You might notice that the article says "over a thousand."
That's a slow weekend for Blizzard.

This isn't a matter of me guessing, this is a matter of you putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

You said almost completely disappeared. It's a hot topic with a lot of people, and the article going to show it's a problem in Eve. That's not disappeared. Ie, you are stating your anecdotal evidence, which is guessing.

edit: I am sure you weren't making up what your experience was playing the game. Mine is different is all. I will drop it, it's crapping up the thread I'm sure.

[Hulari]

Just because there's a bot, doesn't mean it's a gold seller either.

I know people who botted in WoW just for personal gain, netting thousands and thousands of gold just so they could ride around with a level 20 in a Hog. They will be in every game, you can't stop them. All you can do is try and reduce the amount their are.

You said almost completely disappeared. It's a hot topic with a lot of people, and the article going to show it's a problem in Eve. That's not disappeared. Ie, you are stating your anecdotal evidence, which is guessing.

Quoting the bold parts to make them stand out. You said it yourself..

[Bigbamboozal]

With no monthly fee, perhaps they will be more willing to ban people for gold buying?
If they start banning (or suspending, at least) enough gold buyers early on, it may make people more likely to lean towards gems as oppose to gold buying.

DINGDINGDING! Winner-Winner-Chicken-Dinner!

OP, I dunno about preventing bots/goldsales outright, but the first time someone has a grim reaper show up and ban their ass, and have to go out and pay for the game all over again to play, (yah no sub fee means they don't have to keep you around to bleed cash like wow), you will know it would have been smarter to do biz with Anet instead of botting/buying gold from a farmer.

[DrakeWurrum]

You said almost completely disappeared. It's a hot topic with a lot of people, and the article going to show it's a problem in Eve. That's not disappeared. Ie, you are stating your anecdotal evidence, which is guessing.

Thank you for proving yourself wrong.

And, I repeat: That's a slow weekend for Blizzard.

[Standing]

Thank you for proving yourself wrong.

And, I repeat: That's a slow weekend for Blizzard.

I'm sorry you might be taking this personally, that was not my intent. Almost disappeared to me means scant, virtually nonexistent, the next closest thing to completely disappeared. They (disappeared and almost) are nearly the essentially the same exact thing on a scale of major problem to no problem at all.

That article, as I mentioned, quotes a dev post on the subject, highlights problems with the game, plus comments discussing bots in the game. All show me a lot of people still playing it perceive it as a fairly big issue. Not some trivial issue off to the side.

[DrakeWurrum]

I'm sorry you might be taking this personally, that was not my intent. Almost disappeared to me means scant, virtually nonexistent, the next closest thing to completely disappeared. They are almost the same exact thing on a scale of major problem to no problem at all.

Between 1000 and 2000 accounts is virtually nonexistent when you consider how many accounts there are total. The numbers themselves seem large because you are one person. Put them into the scope of the entire playerbase.

[Blznsmri]

Between 1000 and 2000 accounts is virtually nonexistent when you consider how many accounts there are total. The numbers themselves seem large because you are one person. Put them into the scope of the entire playerbase.

Doesn't Eve have like 500k active accounts? So 1000 to 2000 is like.... .2% - .4%.

That's a pretty fucking minute number.

[Merendel]

I'm sorry you might be taking this personally, that was not my intent. Almost disappeared to me means scant, virtually nonexistent, the next closest thing to completely disappeared. They (disappeared and almost) are nearly the essentially the same exact thing on a scale of major problem to no problem at all.

That article, as I mentioned, quotes a dev post on the subject, highlights problems with the game, plus comments discussing bots in the game. All show me a lot of people still playing it perceive it as a fairly big issue. Not some trivial issue off to the side.

If you go from a situation where for example 1 in 4 messages in trade chat are from gold sellers and then a change drops it to only 1 in 100 messages that is a significant change. Some would call that almost disappearing. Still your arguing word choice and semantics. Yes boting and RMT is still an issue in EVE, nobody is disputing that fact. However the scope of that issue showed a very pronounced and obvious decline after they introduced plex. No one system can completely stop the practice but this one has shown to have a significant impact on it.

[Gsara]

You will never stop gold selling in games, not completely. You can slow it down though and a lot of FTP games have the exact same cash shop principal/model as GW2 will have, they all still have gold sellers.

A decent game to look at is Forsaken World, it has the exact same cash shop system/philosophy. It still has a lot of gold sellers.

Depending what the CS in GW2 is selling, the attraction of buying gold may be higher or lower.