The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Kisho]

Qiang:

5090.8 DPS
1394 agi
2090 stam
705 haste
1059 mastery

Gao-rei:

4814.0 DPS
1317 + 500 agi = 1817 agi
1977 stam
892 expertise
856 mastery
320 crit

Honestly the agi makes Gao-rei win easily. Weapon DPS is nice for DPS, but does nothing for personal mitigation (would improve our raid Guard uptime but does nothing for us personally), whereas agi is a very nice boost in AP (Guard), Crit (EB uptime), and dodge (lol). The haste on Qiang's is nice, but not a deal breaker.

Gao-rei wins IMO.

[Yorgl]

I don't understand the reason of the Vengeance cap's "nerf". Was there a situation where tanks could go above 500k (!!!) AP from Vengeance and doing too much damage ? (Even on Mel'Jarak HM I don't think it went that high.)
Or do you think it's to avoid that it happens in a future fight ?

Just out of curiosity as this change will probably go unoticed.

[Christan]

I don't understand the reason of the Vengeance cap's "nerf". Was there a situation where tanks could go above 500k (!!!) AP from Vengeance and doing too much damage ? (Even on Mel'Jarak HM I don't think it went that high.)
Or do you think it's to avoid that it happens in a future fight ?

Just out of curiosity as this change will probably go unoticed.

i think that was more for the lvl 80 paladins bugged with mop loot to be literally vengeance capped, it confused the game and bosses didn't hit them at all. (yes an 80 can get into 85 and 90 raids) but the vengeance would go bonkers on them and allow 500k+ hits

[Kisho]

It's nothing to do with us. It's one step towards stopping this recent 'level 80s soloing level 85 and 90 content' epidemic.

Won't affect us in the slightest.

[Deleted]

Was there a situation where tanks could go above 500k (!!!) AP from Vengeance

Heroic Shek'Zeer's minions can give you that Vengeance. You get 1million+ Guards. I did cap my Vengeance on our kill a few hours after the nerf.

I don't understand the reason of the Vengeance cap's "nerf"

I think it's because a guy soloed Elegon with his level 80 protladin. Need confirmation though.

[Yorgl]

Thanks for the quick answers.

Won't affect us in the slightest.

/agree

[Vasilisa]

Thanks for the info regarding staff. I will use coins for something more useful then (like empress who is yet to drop any weapon for us).

[SurrealNight]

Thanks for the info regarding staff. I will use coins for something more useful then (like empress who is yet to drop any weapon for us).

If you have the Sha staff you may want to save coins for Tier pieces you need until you get the 4P (don't try for shoulders) unless you are just swimming in coins. Migrating to DW will take two drops and if you have any rogues or Enh shaman in the group they wont be thrilled about you trying for a mostly side grade.

While I prefer DW at this point you should focus on gearing other slots and you do have the benefit of only having to upgrade your weapon twice instead of 4x.

[Kebren]

Wondering if anyone had thoughts on Colossus as an enchant?

http://sacredduty.net/2012/11/16/tan...apon-enchants/

Personally, I’d take the 8k absorb. Because my usual death scenario is a 5-8 second window where I’m bursted down without enough healing. There’s a very good chance that I’ll have one Colossus proc in that window (at roughly 1 proc every 8.3 seconds with 20% raid-buffed haste, the overlap chance is greater than 65%).

That was written from the perspective of a Paladin tank, but I don't see why the same basic argument doesn't apply for Monks. Obviously a Monk would benefit more from the Agility than a Paladin would benefit from the strength though.

Figured I'd ask to see if anyone has an opinion on it one way or other. I'd rather not waste a few thousand gold reenchanting my alts weapon if its just not viable at all.

[Deleted]

8k is very unlikely to make the difference between life and death. If you aren't receiving any heals, then you aren't receiving any heals. In any meaningful situation (ie, raids) stuff will be hitting you for 10x that amount, an 8k absorb is unlikely to delay your death by much, if at all.
The alternatives, even windsong, give you more resources to play with, which depending on how you use them, reasonably COULD delay your death for a more than insignificant amount of time.

[Deleted]

As red says it wont make a difference, or very little at best. Imo our greatest cd at low health is EH. Using ascension, on low hp scenarios i can always use a few EH within a sec or 2 of dropping low on health. If you have a windsong haste proc at this time your laughing. During the encounter you will benefit alot more with either windsong or dancing steel. I use dancing steel with my 2h just now but will be switching to DW when my claw drops.

[Laguerra]

Expertise (to 7.5-15% (depending)) = Hit (to 7.5%) > Agility > Haste > Crit > Stamina > Mastery > Parry > Dodge

Can any1 explain me why there is a 7,5% and a 15% cap? it says depending, but depending on what? on wich scenarios is 15% better? Cus atm i am going with 7,5%. Any1?

[gynshon]

Can any1 explain me why there is a 7,5% and a 15% cap? it says depending, but depending on what? on wich scenarios is 15% better? Cus atm i am going with 7,5%. Any1?

here we go again....

Just read through this thread, and about the 15 other threads talking about stats and then you will have your answer. Will it be definitive? nope, because it is play style dependent. Many feel 7.5 is all you need, most of this comes from the top end raiders that are done, or close to progressing. Than you have the other camp that think 15% is needed because they don't want to miss out on Chi opportunities because they spend Chi more than a Desperate Housewife spends their husbands money.

Play style dependent.

[Alucin]

Can any1 explain me why there is a 7,5% and a 15% cap? it says depending, but depending on what? on wich scenarios is 15% better? Cus atm i am going with 7,5%. Any1?

Sunnier had a really good post about it here: http://sunniersartofwar.com/blog/201...xpertise-caps/

I am probably heading for parry cap but note that a lot of monks favour haste over exp for chi generation.

[Chuupag]

Sunnier had a really good post about it here: http://sunniersartofwar.com/blog/201...xpertise-caps/

I am probably heading for parry cap but note that a lot of monks favour haste over exp for chi generation.

Sunnier puts way too much emphasis on the 'you are expecting 2 chi' part of KS. It's not very hard at all to bank an extra chi and not have to expect it. He's not providing math or experience via logs. All he is doing is hyping the what if x10 chain of logic.

[gynshon]

Sunnier's guide is decent, but it's too hypothetical and not based around log analysis or experience what he sees in game.

7.5% is fine across the board.

[Wreckage827]

Sunnier had a really good post about it here: http://sunniersartofwar.com/blog/201...xpertise-caps/

I am probably heading for parry cap but note that a lot of monks favour haste over exp for chi generation.

Again like I just recently said in the thread "Brewmaster Stats?". At most you will ever have 2-3 Kegsmash parries during an 8 minute fight. The problem afflicting many Brewmasters is the fact they are not looking at their logs and seeing what they need to improve on in terms of our active mitigation. Kegsmash parry is never going to break you in terms of damage intake.

Your usage on Elusive Brew, Guard, Gift of the Ox, Shuffle Uptime, and even Expel Harm are what are going to make or break you. Monks are one of the hardest tanks to get right in terms of living or flat out dying in Normal and Heroic raids.

Question to Madgod: Am I allowed to post compare bots of other monks and me?

[Alucin]

Again like I just recently said in the thread "Brewmaster Stats?". At most you will ever have 2-3 Kegsmash parries during an 8 minute fight. The problem afflicting many Brewmasters is the fact they are not looking at their logs and seeing what they need to improve on in terms of our active mitigation. Kegsmash parry is never going to break you in terms of damage intake.

Your usage on Elusive Brew, Guard, Sanctuary of the Ox, Shuffle Uptime, and even Expel Harm are what are going to make or break you. Monks are one of the hardest tanks to get right in terms of living or flat out dying in Normal and Heroic raids.

Question to Madgod: Am I allowed to post compare bots of other monks and me?

I totally get the two approaches. I have two issues. One is that I struggle to pool chi, which is partly gear, mostly my own shortcoming. Second is a pathological hatred of missing. Which wasn't an issue tanking on my warrior in wrath, but now misses are tied to survivability, not just threat, I hate it (even though haste and pooling can do the same job.

I will be trying both options by the way, but I don't know if I have the gear for it yet. Hey, maybe that's the best time to try it. I do notice that quite often, it's crit that I feel I'm missing most. Perhaps my gemming is still straddling the two camps too much and achieving neither.

I agree that sunnier is coming from on side of the argument (but the actual discussion of what the stat does is rarely explained correctly, properly or well at the basic level, which paired with the cap terminology confuses a lot of people. Hence all the posts).

[The Madgod]

Question to Madgod: Am I allowed to post compare bots of other monks and me?

Depends. If you're going to name and shame, then no, you are not.

[Wreckage827]

I totally get the two approaches. I have two issues. One is that I struggle to pool chi, which is partly gear, mostly my own shortcoming. Second is a pathological hatred of missing. Which wasn't an issue tanking on my warrior in wrath, but now misses are tied to survivability, not just threat, I hate it (even though haste and pooling can do the same job.

I will be trying both options by the way, but I don't know if I have the gear for it yet. Hey, maybe that's the best time to try it. I do notice that quite often, it's crit that I feel I'm missing most. Perhaps my gemming is still straddling the two camps too much and achieving neither.

I agree that sunnier is coming from on side of the argument (but the actual discussion of what the stat does is rarely explained correctly, properly or well at the basic level, which paired with the cap terminology confuses a lot of people. Hence all the posts).

Gear will definitely make you feel as though you are taking more damage. Mainly because your heals don't hit for as much and your guard doesn't absorb as much, not enough crit for elusive brew so they seem sluggish to come out. As the expansion goes on and Ilvls increase you may find you are taking a lot less damage and it is a lot more smooth than when you were just starting out.

I tried hard capping at the beginning of the expansion, it was okay for the time being. As I got more gear I wanted to aim for higher energy regen levels and crit to increase both how often I could use expel harm, and the amount of elusive brew I could use.

I feel and my healers feel that by far I take less damage and healing than my Warrior tank counter part.

Like I said, if you want to be a really really good brewmaster compare yourself to other Brewmasters to see where you can improve. That is the best advice I can give to anyone.

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 03:27 PM ----------

Depends. If you're going to name and shame, then no, you are not.

More to show how and where they can improve if anything. I mean I know I still have room to go as well.