[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Build Changes Discussion Thread

[shell]

Well, whatever they do I hope they do it during beta or just outright announce that its going to remain the same, otherwise every enhancement shaman is just going to be looking over their shoulder waiting for them to change it.

[Timetodance]

Uuuhm. Wasn't Earth Shield removable with a single dispell at some point?

Yes it was:

Patch 3.2.0 (2009-08-04): Dispel effects will now remove charges of Earth Shield rather than the entire aura

[Protoman]

Searing Flames is a buff now huh? All I can say is.....god damn finally!!!!! Big morale booster for Enhance, and a great addition. I thought if blizz did anything it would be buffs within the existing mechanic but they took our ideal (and simplest) suggestion to fix all the various problems with SF/ST by making it a buff instead of debuff.....this basically makes target switching not a prob anymore, and the issues keeping it focused on our current target also won't matter cause it can attack anything, even pets, and we still build charges. This is an important enhance change cause it will also have a noticeable difference in our playstyle for MoP.

Shaman rejoice! (and for all those criticizers out there who had been insisting that SF/ST was just fine and contradicting anyone who brought up ideas to improve it....persistence pays off fellas, be more open minded!)

@ Dispel

Personally I think it should be undispellable, stuff like Fulmination isn't dispellable so I don't think SF should either, even if it does stack quickly. It might be true that it provides dispel protection if it's one at a time, but that sounds OP already and prob short lived cause similar multi stack buffs like Earth Shield went from dispel fodder to just undispellable.....ours will either be all stacks removed with one dispel (which would really suck), or undispellable, and I'd prefer undispellable.

@"To do" for Enhance

Now I would say the major stuff left for enhance is:
-Haste+Rotation (hopefully something for MW5 too)
-AoE streamline
-Burning Wrath buff
-Feral spirits scaling
-GW glyph

Most of these are simple fixes like Burn Wrath give either personal or raid AP buff for Enhance instead of SP, GW glyph baseline, and Feral Spirits damage scaling improvements. Haste is going to be tricky since ideally they need to involve our active abilities, most likely thru reduced or reset cd's, and that might take time to see how it plays out.

@ AOE

AoE they should really take a second (or third) look, it's not as easy to use as other melee AoE's and it uses single target abilities which Enhance always has on CD plus relies to keep their DPS competitive. Lets look at a very similar AoE spread mechanic that warrior's used to have, they would spread their rend with thunderclap. Rend on no cd, but tclap on a 6 sec cd. So they had a single target dot spread by an aoe spell that was seperate from any of normal single target abilities. Eventually for MoP they simplified this process by making Tclap auto apply a dot so they didn't even need to bother using rend anymore, one button does an aoe+aoe dot and they just use their other aot attacks in between like cleave and shockwave.

I think something similar for FN would be a good idea. First, making FN spread FLS instead of LL, but limit it to only 2 FLS spread so you still have some ramp up. This is good enough since it will atleast take our 10 sec burst LL out of the equation and make our aoe dot spread based on an aoe spell, not single target. You could take this a step further though, like they did with Tclap/rend, and just make FN a targetable 20-30yd range spell that will spread 2 dots when you use it on other targets with similar spread mechanic.....think of something like Howling Blast but explode from a target and spread only 2 dots instead of disease everyone. Either of these suggestions would put our AoE more on par with other classes and make it more effective in a variety of situations.

[Deleted]

Shaman rejoice! (and for all those criticizers out there who had been insisting that SF/ST was just fine and contradicting anyone who brought up ideas to improve it....persistence pays off fellas, be more open minded!)

At no point did anyone contradict 'anyone who brought up ideas to improve' the class. Discussing was simply being made to disregard the statements that changes were needed. There is a large difference between what people want and what people need. That is all that was ever contested.

@ Dispel

Personally I think it should be undispellable, stuff like Fulmination isn't dispellable so I don't think SF should either, even if it does stack quickly. It might be true that it provides dispel protection if it's one at a time, but that sounds OP already and prob short lived cause similar multi stack buffs like Earth Shield went from dispel fodder to just undispellable.....ours will either be all stacks removed with one dispel (which would really suck), or undispellable, and I'd prefer undispellable.

I haven't tested it myself, but apparently it is undispellable.

@"To do" for Enhance

Now I would say the major stuff left for enhance is:
-Haste+Rotation (hopefully something for MW5 too)
-AoE streamline
-Burning Wrath buff
-Feral spirits scaling
-GW glyph

Most of these are simple fixes like Burn Wrath give either personal or raid AP buff for Enhance instead of SP, GW glyph baseline, and Feral Spirits damage scaling improvements. Haste is going to be tricky since ideally they need to involve our active abilities, most likely thru reduced or reset cd's, and that might take time to see how it plays out.

Feral Spirits I'm fairly confident will be fixed soon. Blizzard have said that ALL pets were broken on the beta, so watch this space. As for the other points I tend to disagree. Burning Wrath is fine, all Shaman bring the SP buff and its not the first time a class has brought a buff they don't get a massive benefit from. AoE is also fine in my opinion, and Ghostcrawler agreed not to long ago. As for Haste - although many agree a 'Sanctity of Battle' type mechanic would be nice - it has definitely recieved some buff in value for sure. And as for the GW Glyph, well this has already been discussed very extensively as to why its not required baseline.

@ AOE

AoE they should really take a second (or third) look, it's not as easy to use as other melee AoE's and it uses single target abilities which Enhance always has on CD plus relies to keep their DPS competitive. Lets look at a very similar AoE spread mechanic that warrior's used to have, they would spread their rend with thunderclap. Rend on no cd, but tclap on a 6 sec cd. So they had a single target dot spread by an aoe spell that was seperate from any of normal single target abilities. Eventually for MoP they simplified this process by making Tclap auto apply a dot so they didn't even need to bother using rend anymore, one button does an aoe+aoe dot and they just use their other aot attacks in between like cleave and shockwave.

I think something similar for FN would be a good idea. First, making FN spread FLS instead of LL, but limit it to only 2 FLS spread so you still have some ramp up. This is good enough since it will atleast take our 10 sec burst LL out of the equation and make our aoe dot spread based on an aoe spell, not single target. You could take this a step further though, like they did with Tclap/rend, and just make FN a targetable 20-30yd range spell that will spread 2 dots when you use it on other targets with similar spread mechanic.....think of something like Howling Blast but explode from a target and spread only 2 dots instead of disease everyone. Either of these suggestions would put our AoE more on par with other classes and make it more effective in a variety of situations.

The 10 second cooldown on Lava Lash doesn't effect you at all for AoE. It just means you have to adapt your play style to fit it. If its a DPS increase to save your LL for the AoE then you do that, and if you choose to just blindly smash LL on cooldown and thus do less damage then that is bad play, not a broken mechanic. I personally love mechanics that promote good play. As an Elemental Shaman mainly that involves things like preloading Earthquake on an area the AoE will be.

A choice between single target and AoE DPS is not necessarily a bad thing. Its just a gameplay choice that you need to make to insure maximum performance. Having a mechanic that is slightly harder to line up is also not a bad thing. If it was very hard to do that might be a problem, but in 9 out of 10 raid bosses the point at which you need to AoE is very predictable so saving your LL for before that is not a problem.

A problem could be made by the fact it takes 3 globals to do your full AoE, however thats only 3 seconds (the damage is done at the start of the FN global so you can discount that) to unleash your full AoE. Thats enough time for an Elemental Shaman to cast Chain Lightning twice. If your able to have a target with Flame Shock on it already (which is fairly common) then it only takes one GCD to get the damage going (LL). Thats a pretty quick ramp up time in all honesty.

[Manu9]

Burning Wrath is fine, all Shaman bring the SP buff and its not the first time a class has brought a buff they don't get a massive benefit from.

But Enha does not get ANY benefit from it, not low benefit.

It makes no sense to me that Enha brings it and not the AP one.

[Omanley]

Burning Wrath is fine, all Shaman bring the SP buff and its not the first time a class has brought a buff they don't get a massive benefit from.

This could even pan out as an advantage, as we're not balanced around having that 10% ap buff up always. I'm kinda unsure about that aspect though. If they can give enh attack speed and ele haste, why cant they give enh ap and ele sp? Doesn't make much sense imo.

As for Haste - although many agree a 'Sanctity of Battle' type mechanic would be nice - it has definitely recieved some buff in value for sure. And as for the GW Glyph, well this has already been discussed very extensively as to why its not required baseline.

There are some positive details, yes. I would critisize their nerf to Flurry. Haste is a exponentially scaling stat. If you have few of it, it isn't worth as much as having many. Reducing Flurry haste by 10% will make it all the harder reaching interesting levels of haste, though I do applaud the addition of extra scaling (allthough I didn't see the need of placing it on an not-always-up-buff instead of making it baseline like with 3.1.

[Endus]

There are some positive details, yes. I would critisize their nerf to Flurry. Haste is a exponentially scaling stat. If you have few of it, it isn't worth as much as having many.

This is not mathematically true. Like every other stat but Hit, Haste loses relative value as you stack more, and the absolute value is static. Say you had 100 spells/attacks per time frame (for ease of math). +5% Haste would mean you can get 105 spells/attacks in that time frame. You gained 5 spells/attacks in that time frame. If you were at +25% Haste, you'd be at 125 spells/attacks. Adding another 5% would take you to 130 spells/attacks; the same gain of 5. But where the former is a 5% gain over the base no-haste value, 125 attacks to 130 is only a 3.9% relative gain.

The same is true of all stats. There isn't anything about Haste that makes it exponential.

[Omanley]

I'm not an ace when it comes to math, but haste did scale exponentially back in wotlk. Half-way through colloseum, it became good enough to warrant a complete re-gemming and enchanting to haste. From then on, it kept getting better, the more we got. Isn't that exponential scaling?

More haste means more opportunities proccing flurry, increasing its uptime. Flurry in turn will increase our speed, again increasing the ease to keep itself up, and in MoP also increasing our value from haste on gear, which in turn will again benefit flurry uptime.
More haste/flurry will bring with it more MSW, which in turn will give us more opportunities to proc Elemental Devastation, which again will improve on Flurry.

More haste will give us also more WF procs (which increase flurry uptime) and through that MSW procs (which in turn increase Elemental Devastation uptime, and through that, Flurry).

From my understanding, haste shows hardly improvement stat-wise (at least for enhancement) until you reach a point where all that synergy adds up to a nice amount. That point became unreachable after 4.0, and probably continue being that even in MoP though.

Then again, that's my derp-math.

[Endus]

I'm not an ace when it comes to math, but haste did scale exponentially back in wotlk. Half-way through colloseum, it became good enough to warrant a complete re-gemming and enchanting to haste. From then on, it kept getting better, the more we got. Isn't that exponential scaling?

That had more to do with linear scaling changes than anything exponential.

More haste means more opportunities proccing flurry, increasing its uptime. Flurry in turn will increase our speed, again increasing the ease to keep itself up, and in MoP also increasing our value from haste on gear, which in turn will again benefit flurry uptime.
More haste/flurry will bring with it more MSW, which in turn will give us more opportunities to proc Elemental Devastation, which again will improve on Flurry.

That's all linear, not exponential. What you're describing is how a 5% Haste increase could lead to a 7% damage increase (to make up numbers) due to feedback, and that a 25% Haste would be a 35% damage increase. It's still linear. Haste isn't increasing in value.

With DoTs, there are breakpoints that complicate these calculations, and none of these lines are precisely linear, but they aren't exponential, either. Haste just scaled better than Agility, which is why it pulled further and further ahead in WotLK.

From my understanding, haste shows hardly improvement stat-wise (at least for enhancement) until you reach a point where all that synergy adds up to a nice amount. That point became unreachable after 4.0, and probably continue being that even in MoP though.

Then again, that's my derp-math.

There's no magic breakpoint where it changes like that, even theoretically. Haste just provides less benefit per point than other secondaries. It's all just basic scaling.

[Protoman]

Feral Spirits I'm fairly confident will be fixed soon. Blizzard have said that ALL pets were broken on the beta, so watch this space. As for the other points I tend to disagree. Burning Wrath is fine, all Shaman bring the SP buff and its not the first time a class has brought a buff they don't get a massive benefit from. AoE is also fine in my opinion, and Ghostcrawler agreed not to long ago. As for Haste - although many agree a 'Sanctity of Battle' type mechanic would be nice - it has definitely recieved some buff in value for sure. And as for the GW Glyph, well this has already been discussed very extensively as to why its not required baseline.

I'm not as confident since I have been waiting for that buff for an entire xpac really. I'm worried about how it went to "snapshot" of AP instead of dynamic scaling like it was before. That's true about broken pets, will see how that effects wolves (which are guardians now, so I hope it still does something for them). Burning wrath is not fine, we bring a buff that gives us ZERO benefit, and I don't think you can find another class that brings a buff with zero benefit, or even very reduced benefit.....especially since we are now limited to only 3 buffs. I think we should have a personal 10%AP buff while still give SP to the raid since we lost both our original AP buffs with Unl Rage and Str of Earth.

Haste isn't fixed yet, even GC said the ultimate problem lies with haste working on active abilities. Flurry change has done very little to fix this as it only works on stat value which will be naturally improved by fixing the root problem with haste+ active abilities....plus we will have very little haste on gear even after the change so not much effect.

And GW glyph......only a few people have said it's not required, and I've seen alot more who feel differently in that it will be too important in PVP to give up for anything else. I think you are wrong on this point, but yes it has been discussed extensively with no one changing their stance....ultimately in the hands of Blizz to decide.

The 10 second cooldown on Lava Lash doesn't effect you at all for AoE. It just means you have to adapt your play style to fit it. If its a DPS increase to save your LL for the AoE then you do that, and if you choose to just blindly smash LL on cooldown and thus do less damage then that is bad play, not a broken mechanic. I personally love mechanics that promote good play. As an Elemental Shaman mainly that involves things like preloading Earthquake on an area the AoE will be.

A choice between single target and AoE DPS is not necessarily a bad thing. Its just a gameplay choice that you need to make to insure maximum performance. Having a mechanic that is slightly harder to line up is also not a bad thing. If it was very hard to do that might be a problem, but in 9 out of 10 raid bosses the point at which you need to AoE is very predictable so saving your LL for before that is not a problem.

A problem could be made by the fact it takes 3 globals to do your full AoE, however thats only 3 seconds (the damage is done at the start of the FN global so you can discount that) to unleash your full AoE. Thats enough time for an Elemental Shaman to cast Chain Lightning twice. If your able to have a target with Flame Shock on it already (which is fairly common) then it only takes one GCD to get the damage going (LL). Thats a pretty quick ramp up time in all honesty.

"Blindly smash LL" is exactly what we are supposed to do, on CD, to do proper DPS. We can and do hold it if we can predict AOE, but what if you can't? Both LL and Shocks are usually on cd almost as soon as they become available (meaning up to 10 sec to aoe properly), and LL is a big part of single or aoe dps just cause of how much damage it does. If there is an encounter that tests your ability to execute aoe by reacting quickly to random spawned mobs.....that will put us at a severe disadvantage cause of our mechanics.

Elemental doesn't have to wait at all, they can just switch right to CL spam......if longer fights, drop magma and EQ which both have free cd's.....and notice none of those are also used for single target. Enhance in the past for AoE did not have to wait or save anything either, we dropped magma and used FN along with CL for MW5. Ret just switches to HotR instead of CS, and many other melee just switch to aoe abilities.

Single target spells in AoE, esp cd based, don't work very well. More important though is that they are supposed to create a distinction between single target and aoe which is why I am confused why a single target ability spreads an aoe dot....this can cause problems which is why they made that glyph, but if it was spread thru FN this wouldn't even be a problem at all not to mention it makes alot of sense considering a similar mechanic with rend and tclap. And ramp up time can still be kept by only spreading 2 FLS instead of 4 meaning it takes a few FN to get to the same point as your old LL=4 FN. It would be a similar mechanic, but overall a much better version cause now you are just limited by one single target ability, FLS. That 6 sec shock cd is how long it takes for tclap, or a rune to regen, and much more in line with aoe setup.

This is not mathematically true.

It's kinda true, but not exactly exponential it has it's ups and downs. There are certain haste caps people shoot for where haste is valued highly, then afterwards its devalued till you can get enough to reach a second haste cap....and depends on how much that cap will increase your DPS. Most casters have certain haste caps they shoot for.....and I don't think melee have haste caps but if say after a certain amount of haste rogues get 2 energy per sec instead of 1 then that would be a useful cap to go for. Enhance has no such cap, or even value to more haste since it's only passive damage and really kinda linear......but it would be interesting if after like 10% haste we got a certain cd reduction on our main melee abilities to be similar to more energy or rage regen.

At no point did anyone contradict 'anyone who brought up ideas to improve' the class. Discussing was simply being made to disregard the statements that changes were needed. There is a large difference between what people want and what people need. That is all that was ever contested.

And if people did not argue it was needed, what reason is there to make the change in the first place? The whole idea is to argue something you want as being necessary, or important enough, to change. If Blizz isn't convinced it's an important or necessary fix for shaman they aren't going to make the change. I didn't say contradict any idea for the class btw, talking bout SF specifically, and the constant criticism when suggestions were made to fix it. It's disrespectful to disregard or dismiss suggestions cause someone personally feels it's not needed. Just saying, what is "needed or not" is usually a debatable issue...

[shell]

I used to think it was fine because of the buff that rogues get but they do at least get some benefit out of theirs. Having a buff that doesn't provide any benefit to you seems kind of pointless to me. I get that it provides a benefit to others and that's nice and all but it'd be better if there was some benefit, however small, to the enhancement shaman. On the other hand, the devs probably feel that the 3500 mastery buff is enough to make up for not having whatever it was that you lost. Not saying I agree with it one way or another, but I can only assume that's what their thinking is.

On another note, I assume this has already been discussed, but I think they should consider removing the gcd for imbue swapping. The gcd for unleashing the weapon is enough. I never really cared about enhancements issues with imbue swapping, no offense, but I'm being honest here, it didn't have an impact on me. Elemental, even in pvp, pretty much just stuck with flametongue...some people might have used the other imbues here and there I suppose but for the most part it was just that one.

Now in MoP, elementals have 3 imbues: Flametongue, Frostbrand, and Rockbiter. I like both frostbrand and rockbiter with unleashed fury but they're a pain in the ass to use. I don't mind sacrificing 7% magic damage for either one of those but the time lost swapping the imbues is really annoying, particularly considering that pvp is so fast-paced.

[Protoman]

I used to think it was fine because of the buff that rogues get but they do at least get some benefit out of theirs. Having a buff that doesn't provide any benefit to you seems kind of pointless to me. I get that it provides a benefit to others and that's nice and all but it'd be better if there was some benefit, however small, to the enhancement shaman. On the other hand, the devs probably feel that the 3500 mastery buff is enough to make up for not having whatever it was that you lost. Not saying I agree with it one way or another, but I can only assume that's what their thinking is.

Yea, with how few buffs each class has now....whatever buffs they DO bring should be beneficial to their class/spec. As Enhance, we don't bring Spell haste, we bring melee haste. Similarly, we shouldn't bring SP it should be AP. I can understand if SP is a limited buff they want all Shaman to bring it, but still give us personal AP buff. I don't think us bringing Mastery should have anything to do with it....we have 3 buffs, so if elem brings 3 (sp, haste, mastery) and benefits from all of them then the same should hold true for Enhance.

On another note, I assume this has already been discussed, but I think they should consider removing the gcd for imbue swapping. The gcd for unleashing the weapon is enough. I never really cared about enhancements issues with imbue swapping, no offense, but I'm being honest here, it didn't have an impact on me. Elemental, even in pvp, pretty much just stuck with flametongue...some people might have used the other imbues here and there I suppose but for the most part it was just that one.

Now in MoP, elementals have 3 imbues: Flametongue, Frostbrand, and Rockbiter. I like both frostbrand and rockbiter with unleashed fury but they're a pain in the ass to use. I don't mind sacrificing 7% magic damage for either one of those but the time lost swapping the imbues is really annoying, particularly considering that pvp is so fast-paced.

I am a little saddened that FT has officially become our permanent OH imbue, but I guess I can live with that. Just switch WF for either FB or RB. I agree the GCD cost is too much just to utilize an imbues unleash effect, and it should def be on a 1 sec or .5sec gcd. I doubt they would remove it completely though, because then you would be able to twist them way too easily and Blizz doesn't like that. Putting them in a seperate gcd category might also work too.

I really prefer the suggestion I saw by Ashunera on official forums which was to remove FB and RB as weapon imbues and just make them unleash spells instead that share the same cd as ULE.....this way you don't bother switching imbues at all and just keep normal setup, just trade your normal damage/healing with ULE for a utility spell of either FB or RB (w/ ULF bonus effects too). This would be ideal IMO and seems balanced, it works similar to how our shocks are as well.

[shell]

this way you don't bother switching imbues at all and just keep normal setup

I like the idea on paper, but I get the feeling they want us making a choice between speed/survivability and damage. If they did it this way I'd be ecstatic but I don't think they want me, for example, to keep flametongue and have the ability to move at 150%, or take 40% less damage, at the same time. I'd love it but other classes would qq endlessly about how difficult we are to catch up to or kill while having a dps advantage. I think they want the tradeoff in place. We'd still be keeping somewhat of a tradeoff, if they did this, because we'd be choosing either the run speed or the survivabilty but I don't think they want us to keep our damage on top of it. Maybe sacrificing lightning bolt damage is enough but I think, in their minds, that its not.

But I can see how it would be too easy if they'd remove the gcd entirely, so maybe putting them on a separate gcd category would be the best route. Surely, they're imaginative enough to come up with an equal or better solution. Hell, as it stands now, elementals don't even use unleash elements for anything whether pve or pvp, at least resto and enhance use it (i think). I haven't seriously pvp'd for a little bit but I used it pretty sparingly; I keep up with the vids on skillcapped and I almost never see an elemental make that little spinning move that signifies an unleash.

Elementals and restorations aren't complaining about it yet (at least not as much as enhancement has been, all this time) but I guarantee once we get settled into the new expansion, they will because of the unleashed fury talent.

[Protoman]

I like the idea on paper, but I get the feeling they want us making a choice between speed/survivability and damage. If they did it this way I'd be ecstatic but I don't think they want me, for example, to keep flametongue and have the ability to move at 150%, or take 40% less damage, at the same time. I'd love it but other classes would qq endlessly about how difficult we are to catch up to or kill while having a dps advantage. I think they want the tradeoff in place. We'd still be keeping somewhat of a tradeoff, if they did this, because we'd be choosing either the run speed or the survivabilty but I don't think they want us to keep our damage on top of it. Maybe sacrificing lightning bolt damage is enough but I think, in their minds, that its not.

Well, technically you are trading your normal instant damage/heals and the buffs for a utility ULE with taunt or snare. You could make RB and FB not do any damage at all, or just very little, to make it even more noticeable difference.....or maybe if you use FB/RB ULE you get double the gcd, so it lasts like 2-3 sec.

I don't think it's a big deal though, pally's Judgements w/ talent for sprint is just like our ULE FB.....and taunts not a big deal but 40% less damage taken from targeted enemy I can see complaints about, but really ULF RB is sorta OP in general so they could just nerf it to like 20-30% instead. Would still be worth it since it will only take you one gcd and no need for stupid macroes or diff weapon sets. I think unleash spells are the most ideal solution and would be like the evolution of shock's linked trinity but with ULE, FB and RB.

But I can see how it would be too easy if they'd remove the gcd entirely, so maybe putting them on a separate gcd category would be the best route. Surely, they're imaginative enough to come up with an equal or better solution.

Yea, would be too easy to "exploit" a no gcd imbue twisting. But 1 sec gcd or possibly seperate group would work and should happen. Here's an interesting quote about hunter aspects which were in a seperate group and I think had their gcd removed, so have been "exploiting" it to get best of both worlds....

Question + GC reply:

I'm curious about the Hunter technique of macro'ing Fox and Hawk into cast time/instant shots, respectively, to maximize uptime with the Hawk AP buff while moving.

""We don't consider that fun gameplay. You're basically opting out of Aspects as a mechanic and just always benefiting from the right Aspect because you're "clever" enough to know there is a macro. Usually in this situation we put the "stance" on the normal GCD or make the shared GCD longer.""

Reduced GDC is least they can do, we already spend alot of extra gcd's on totems plus stuff like purge....and gwolf shifting for mobility, so 3 gcd's just to utilize 1 spell effect seems excessive.

[takolin]

"Blindly smash LL" is exactly what we are supposed to do, on CD, to do proper DPS. We can and do hold it if we can predict AOE, but what if you can't? Both LL and Shocks are usually on cd almost as soon as they become available (meaning up to 10 sec to aoe properly), and LL is a big part of single or aoe dps just cause of how much damage it does. If there is an encounter that tests your ability to execute aoe by reacting quickly to random spawned mobs.....that will put us at a severe disadvantage cause of our mechanics.

Other classes have the problems though. A rogue who just unloaded his energy on single target, can't use FoK or the new AoE finisher. A DK who used most of his runes on a single target rotation, won't have the runes to randomly start AoE'ing. I'm not sure how the new rage works for warriors, but if it's limited as well, they'll face the same problem.

Now if shamans wouldn't have to hold off their rotation to start AoE'ing, that would be unfair to the other melee dps. Only casters can switch to AoE on the fly without holding off their rotation and even that's not true with current moonkins and eclipse.

[raggoo]

@"To do" for Enhance

Now I would say the major stuff left for enhance is:
-Haste
-AoE streamline - still to clunky, need 1 gcd removing somehow
-Feral spirits scaling - Seriously needs to be fixed, this last xp has been a joke, the puppies hitting like wet noodles
-GW glyph - i still cannot see any reason why we should waste a GCD for this mandatory affect

Love the change to FL dot on player instead, a great start. Concerns like others that this makes FS mandatory and penalises Enhance too much when using other imbues. I don't mind weapon swapping, in fact it's something ive always found intersting as not that many enhance do it, but i believe we need to have different affects for "LL" 5MW when we have a different off hand imbue. This can be balanced, and can increase utility without making Op = we get to make choices... more damage or more utility, would be a great way to solve a few issues outstanding like survivability and lack of cc
Ashanura's idea was a good one, but i think a complicated method. It seems to me we already have everything in place with LL - just need to make the affect change when having different imbues on offhand - this would also make swapping weapons and the sacrifice of a GCD a decision.... not just twisting... but a paid for affect

[Manu9]

GC posted about pets and it included this "It’s currently intentional that Searing Totem doesn’t cast faster with Haste, but we agree that that’s odd and inconsistent, so will likely keep that in mind if we find that shamans need more value from Haste (we think they are probably fine at the moment)."

I hope he does not mean Enha by that statement :/

[takolin]

GC posted about pets and it included this "It’s currently intentional that Searing Totem doesn’t cast faster with Haste, but we agree that that’s odd and inconsistent, so will likely keep that in mind if we find that shamans need more value from Haste (we think they are probably fine at the moment)."

I hope he does not mean Enha by that statement :/

Enhance got quite a few buffs when compared to now that improve haste scaling. It's probably not the best stat and possibly still the worst. But it should be comparable to the bad stats of other classes. Not that this is only a comment about scaling, not the affect that haste has on our rotation.

[Manu9]

Enhance got quite a few buffs when compared to now that improve haste scaling. It's probably not the best stat and possibly still the worst. But it should be comparable to the bad stats of other classes. Not that this is only a comment about scaling, not the affect that haste has on our rotation.

Yeah I agree about the scaling, I was just worried about about effect on our rotation, as I really want a SoB kind of mechanic.

[Ize]

Does anyone know if the TC glyph mana return works on Echo of Elementals' extra lightning bolts?
Been trying to test but just cant tell...