[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Build Changes Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

People are just scared of the class underperforming, or having a repeat of the craziness that occurred in Cataclysm. It's understandable, but we're exactly a month away from release so IMO the time for complaining is over. We're not getting a resource on Enhancement. Shocks are still going to have a shared cooldown, tier 45 talents are still mediocre, and our essential totems still only have 5 hp. At this point if you're not happy with how things are going, it's probably best just to move on. No point clogging this forum up with complaints that will never be addressed.

With that said, I have a question; As a Resto Shaman, is there ever a time where you would choose Conductivity over Healing Tide Totem? HTT just seems so much stronger in every situation I can think of.

Unfortunately, as good as it is for discussing class changes here, if people want change, the official forums are where they need to go (which doesn't seem to have worked either but oh well). If people want changes, they need to follow threads like this one http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5070657166

It highlights issues people are having and the posters worked together to rate it to become a noticeable post. More of this needs done if people really want to see issues raised and fixed.

On the conductivity issue, I'm unsure. Depending on how much healing HHT puts out over it's duration, you could probably work out at a rough guess just how much hps you'd need to push on a fight while having Healing rain down to counteract HTT's big healing ability. At a guess I'd say fights with stacking once again though.

Now it's getting absurd. So flame shock dot damage is also passive because i would use flame shock anyways?

That's just straightout nonsense. Static shock proccing from UW can be seen as a more attractive version of a dot, but it'S surely not 'passive'. It's as passive as stormstrike, lava lash and flame shock are - it comes from pushing a button.

I totally disagree that all the damage that comes or proccs from auto hits is just passive.

As much as I agree with this, can we please not move back onto this debate? It's not even been a page. Let's just acknowledge that Protoman has an issue with how much damage LS can potentially do and leave it at that. No passive vs non passive debates that sprawl pages of a thread.

[Deleted]

If people want to use ULF then that's their choice. If they don't like LS doing so much damage because of ULF, they can happily pick up one of the other two talents available and do just about as much, maybe more dps.

THIS

You know well what will happen if you pick ULF. Again, if you don't like what it does, you can pick the other two talents. That's the entire intent of the new design

THIS

It was an exaggeration, you're right about that but the point was made clear. Sure I want LL to do a decent amount of damage and to contribute to my total damage, but I'm really not fussed whether it's my 1st, 3rd or 8th most damaging ability, as long as it feels "fun" to press every time it's available, whether that mean's it hits hard or causes my target to be swarmed by rabbits for 10 seconds and of course in the end, I do around the same damage output.

THIS

All I'm really concerned with is the final balance of the class. If they choose to nerf LS and move it to LL well, happy days. I'll be sitting here none the wiser hopefully when my dps doesn't change

THIS

Yea, everyone has a choice to pick what they want, but from what I am reading it seems like Echo/Unleash Fury provides the best sustained DPS and overall dps on patchwerk like fights.....and Elem Mastery/Primal Ele is second but pretty close, and is more CD oriented....so people who just follow top DPS will prob go EoE/ULF.

If there is a patchwerk fight im sure people will go for that setup. Untill then, pick whatever is that makes you:

a) Have fun;

b) Helps you/your guild the most in that encounter;

c)All of the above.


There is a time and place for everything and if one talent in a specific tier is way 2 OP or way 2 UP, it will be changed.

EDIT:

Can we please not move back onto this debate? It's not even been a page. Let's just acknowledge that Protoman has an issue with how much damage LS can potentially do and leave it at that. No passive vs non passive debates that sprawl pages of a thread.

Also this.

[Aviators]

With that said, I have a question; As a Resto Shaman, is there ever a time where you would choose Conductivity over Healing Tide Totem? HTT just seems so much stronger in every situation I can think of.

Would be pretty useful on spine. Throw down a Healing Rain and then start to heal off the debuffs with GHW or the tanks with GHW.

[takolin]

With that said, I have a question; As a Resto Shaman, is there ever a time where you would choose Conductivity over Healing Tide Totem? HTT just seems so much stronger in every situation I can think of.

Under conditions yes.

-Stacked fight with constant outgoing damage without any massive burst healing requirement. If there are damage spikes on a single target, it helps the talent forward.
-The ability to keep down HR all the time and thus you'll need to have enough spirit while still being able to cast single target heals. So either on fights where mana is moot or somewhere in the last tier.
-And then maths needs to be done to see whether it's more HPS/HPM to spam single target heals vs the use of CH and if that tactic is keeping people alive.

[Deleted]

With that said, I have a question; As a Resto Shaman, is there ever a time where you would choose Conductivity over Healing Tide Totem? HTT just seems so much stronger in every situation I can think of.

At the moment? I don't think so. Mana is currently one of the biggest issues for Resto Shaman, so I can't imagine anyone with Healing Rain ~100% uptime. Just take Ancestral Guidance, write it into Ascendance macro and you have similar effect.

[Sarevokcz]

While a little bit of this is alright, we don’t want it to be a significant difference. We’re currently planning to increase the % of the damage that is chained through Chain Lightning, and reduce the initial damage at the same time. That will in effect nerf it for use against a single target but not against a group.

the questions obviously are; will this affect Lava Beam damage, since they are doing pretty much the same damage on first jump? and is it balanced change with or without glyph mind, being nerf in one case and buff in other case?

[Deleted]

the questions obviously are; will this affect Lava Beam damage, since they are doing pretty much the same damage on first jump? and is it balanced change with or without glyph mind, being nerf in one case and buff in other case?

Likely, the way Lava Beam works is its CL without the damage lost per jump. Honestly, I can't really see anyone using Lava Beam anyway. The DPS gained from just spamming CL and using Ascendance for LvB I think outweighs the damage gained from using Lava Beam. Especially if this change goes through. For me personally, Lava Beam was pretty underwhelming. Maybe they'll buff it though to make up for this. We'll see

[Endus]

the questions obviously are; will this affect Lava Beam damage, since they are doing pretty much the same damage on first jump? and is it balanced change with or without glyph mind, being nerf in one case and buff in other case?

It'll probably be close to a wash either way. They'll likely tune the base spell, but the nerf/buff is going to come with the additional ticks, which are at around 35% and 25% of the original impact. A change of 10% at the top end is only a few percentage points at the bottom end, and only affects those final jumps.

I'd expect they'll tune the base spell, though.

And, like Undefetter said, Lava Beam is more of a really cool idea that won't see much use as it's incredibly situational. For the most part, adds AoE DPS needs to be "fast enough" rather than "as fast as possible", so you don't typically save CDs for that purpose, you save them for the boss itself. If there were a fight where the adds were that dangerous and the boss was not (Maloriak heroic maybe, Halfus Wyrmbreaker's initial heroic pull maybe) you might see Lava Beam uses, but they won't be typical.

[nazrakin]

I personally don't have a problem with how much it boosts LS damage. In fact I quite like the idea of Lightning Shield actually being something serious rather than just being some buff you can almost forget to even apply because its effects are almost non existent. But that's just my opinion just as it's your opinion that it's too much. I'm not saying "they totally shouldn't do it" though because as I said already, All I'm really concerned with is the final balance of the class. If they choose to nerf LS and move it to LL well, happy days. I'll be sitting here none the wiser hopefully when my dps doesn't change

I agree. Lightning Shield being that high isn't an issue to me -- in a sense you could just look at it as an extension of LL/SS damage since that is where it comes from. My only issue with it is that I wish it had an animation, without looking at the combat log you'd never know that it proc'd.

[Cai]

What exactly are the proc rates, ICD (if any), and hidden rules of the MoP weapon enchants?
Ask, and ye shall receive:

River's Song: 2PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried.
Dancing Steel: 1PPM on melee attacks that land.
Colossus: 3PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried, with a 3-second cooldown.
Elemental Force: 5PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 0.1-second cooldown.
Jade Spirit: 10% chance on spell damage or healing, 50-second cooldown.
Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown.

So with this information about weapon chant procs which ones are we going to choose and Enh and Resto

I was thinking Elemental Force for Enh cuz of it possibly scaling with mastery

and I was thinking, probably, Jade Spirit for Resto

I am just wondering what everyone else is thinking about the enchants.

[Radux]

Well Elemental Force is likely going to be the 'intro' enchant much like Avalanche was for Cataclysm.

For Enhancement, you're basically going to want Dancing Steel for optimum dps.


And yeah for Restoration (well... healers as a whole) will go for Jade Spirit. Though Derevka, a priest theorycrafter, showed that the Spirit portion is basically pointless, as it gives less averaged Spirit than Heartsong (even if you have consistent low mana).

[takolin]

Enhancement: dancing steel
Elemental/Resto: Jade spirit

[Cai]

Well Elemental Force is likely going to be the 'intro' enchant much like Avalanche was for Cataclysm.

For Enhancement, you're basically going to want Dancing Steel for optimum dps.


And yeah for Restoration (well... healers as a whole) will go for Jade Spirit. Though Derevka, a priest theorycrafter, showed that the Spirit portion is basically pointless, as it gives less averaged Spirit than Heartsong (even if you have consistent low mana).

Sounds about right.

That's good to know about the spirit. I do have a question though would the spirit help out with MTT or would it still be pretty much useless?

[Radux]

I do have a question though would the spirit help out with MTT or would it still be pretty much useless?

Honestly not sure.

I basically stopped beta testing to focus more on live -- getting ready for to push for launch (gold for professions, flasks, gold, etc).

[Deleted]

Sounds about right.

That's good to know about the spirit. I do have a question though would the spirit help out with MTT or would it still be pretty much useless?

MTT doesn't scale off Spirit Procs anymore - hasn't since t11 - so no it wont be more useful because of MTT.

[Radux]

MTT doesn't scale off Spirit Procs anymore - hasn't since t11 - so no it wont be more useful because of MTT.

Define 'proc', though.

Since it obviously still works with Heartsong, 4pT11, JoAR, etc.

[Deleted]

Define 'proc', though.

Since it obviously still works with Heartsong, 4pT11, JoAR, etc.

Hmm yeah I suppose it does work with Heartsong... maybe it would work with Jade I haven't actually tested the Jade Spirit enchant on the beta at all. I'm fairly confident it wouldn't though honestly.

[Endus]

Incidentally, we have a new sticky post, as a quick attempt to bring things up-to-date for the 5.0.4 launch that's (almost certainly) coming this week.

Bear in mind I just sat down and wrote it, so I may have overlooked something. If you notice something missing and it's a moderately big deal, PM me and I'll get it in there. Things that are not a "big deal" for instance are things like "hey, this spell's scaling was tweaked a bit from 4.3" or "you didn't include every new spec passive that does exactly what our old spec talents already did so it's not really that big a chance in actual practice".

[Deleted]

Thinking about nerfed LB dmg, I kinda started to like it. This makes it less penalizing if you use MSW for heals.

[Deleted]

Thinking about nerfed LB dmg, I kinda started to like it. This makes it less penalizing if you use MSW for heals.

Yeah thats pretty much the upside to the nerfs, for enhance at least. The increased shock damage aswell.

However I'm not sure if MSWx5 LB dropped in our DPS priority and if so, how much.