[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Build Changes Discussion Thread

[Radux]

So is it safe to assume we will be going with this talent?

Very debatable (pending on spec).

If you have another fight like Spine, Elemental very well may take Elemental Mastery for additional Burst CD for Tendon DPS (more reliable than a RNG proc).
Other times, they may prefer EotE.

That's going to be the good thing about the talents, though: You change talents to what will be optimal for what the specific encounter requires.

[Arinnaya]

Hang on, the TC glyph makes it mana-positive from the get-go? That's dangerous, actually. I'd like to see some numbers from a level-90 in pre-raid gear before I make any judgements, but if it is true we have a MASSIVE advantage over just about anyone else on the healing side of things, since we alone won't have to worry too much about mana.

When you're making the choice to reduce your healing output to regain mana, it's no longer "not worrying" about mana, instead it's planning ahead to make sure you have enough mana later on. Having TC as mana-positive isn't a problem in my book - if it wasn't, noone would ever take the glyph.

[Protoman]

When you're making the choice to reduce your healing output to regain mana, it's no longer "not worrying" about mana, instead it's planning ahead to make sure you have enough mana later on. Having TC as mana-positive isn't a problem in my book - if it wasn't, noone would ever take the glyph.

It should be mana positive I agree, as well as provide hit built in. But I hope they are balancing mana regen without taking TC into consideration......it should be an optional glyph, not required to have your normal regen or keep up with other healers, I doubt that will be the case though which is why I am against this glyph.....I feel pretty sure that Resto will be using TC throughout MoP which really sucks. Would rather remove the glyph and get a new shaman only regen cd.

Also, having to glyph for Water shield is bullshit. Talk about being stuck in the past, they have made so many updates to the class but still keep this archaic mechanic. We should not be forced to waste a gcd every 10 sec just to refresh WS, it has a 60min duration but removes itself in 10 sec, its undispellable but can dispel itself with any damage.....makes zero sense. It's not like refreshing watershield does anything for our damage or healing, or even give us more mana back.....just maintain the same regen we normally get. It's pretty much a core spec mechanic for mana regen, just like LS is for DPS classes and dps mechanic. The orbs don't even have much function other then "flavor", unlike LS orbs for Ele's fulm.

LS glyph is a minor glyph, which is kind of dumb as well because it will also be used by all DPS shaman....at that point why not just add it baseline? Both LS and WS should have the "damage does not cause you to lose orbs, but still proc them" BASELINE.

Every other similar mechanic for other classes has been updated to be baseline, like priest inner fire which used to have stacks but now is just a passive buff.

[Deleted]

I think I will be sticking with AS. for elemental for the first tiers. The 5% haste is gonna be really nice then and I really like my Ele to run around and cast like a boss, so the 1 min CD for a instant LvB + the t12 4pc in lava surge is really the playstyle I'm looking for. Maybe in later content where haste is in mass on equip, I would switch to EM or EotE maybe.

For resto EotE is kinda useless I think, so again I would prefer AS. Don't like the long cd on EM for resto.

Maybe Enhance has the most benefit for EotE if haste still scales badly like now in Cata, but I'm not a experienced enhancement player

[Tharkash]

It should be mana positive I agree, as well as provide hit built in. But I hope they are balancing mana regen without taking TC into consideration......it should be an optional glyph, not required to have your normal regen or keep up with other healers, I doubt that will be the case though which is why I am against this glyph.....I feel pretty sure that Resto will be using TC throughout MoP which really sucks. Would rather remove the glyph and get a new shaman only regen cd.

Also, having to glyph for Water shield is bullshit. Talk about being stuck in the past, they have made so many updates to the class but still keep this archaic mechanic. We should not be forced to waste a gcd every 10 sec just to refresh WS, it has a 60min duration but removes itself in 10 sec, its undispellable but can dispel itself with any damage.....makes zero sense. It's not like refreshing watershield does anything for our damage or healing, or even give us more mana back.....just maintain the same regen we normally get. It's pretty much a core spec mechanic for mana regen, just like LS is for DPS classes and dps mechanic. The orbs don't even have much function other then "flavor", unlike LS orbs for Ele's fulm.

LS glyph is a minor glyph, which is kind of dumb as well because it will also be used by all DPS shaman....at that point why not just add it baseline? Both LS and WS should have the "damage does not cause you to lose orbs, but still proc them" BASELINE.

Every other similar mechanic for other classes has been updated to be baseline, like priest inner fire which used to have stacks but now is just a passive buff.

What they could do is just make it so WS and LS no longer have orbs at all and as far as Rolling Thunder/Fulmination goes just have it add charges, up to +6 like it does now.

---------- Post added 2012-04-02 at 01:29 PM ----------

I think I will be sticking with AS. for elemental for the first tiers. The 5% haste is gonna be really nice then and I really like my Ele to run around and cast like a boss, so the 1 min CD for a instant LvB + the t12 4pc in lava surge is really the playstyle I'm looking for. Maybe in later content where haste is in mass on equip, I would switch to EM or EotE maybe.

For resto EotE is kinda useless I think, so again I would prefer AS. Don't like the long cd on EM for resto.

Maybe Enhance has the most benefit for EotE if haste still scales badly like now in Cata, but I'm not a experienced enhancement player

Unless they change AS you can't cast Lavaburst through it. Nature spell only.

[Deleted]

First of all, sry for my english

My question is to all beta (resto)testers and about the t6 talent Primal Elementalist.
Both elementals give a channeled buff, which increase healing by 10% . It has a 10sek cd but doesnt say how long it`s up.
Is it the hole time up, the elemental exist and so, the elementals (only) cant attack?

Would be awesome....and makes the fire elemental glype another resto alternative

ps: 2nd Questions....are these 4 talents everything or got the elementals other new talents on higher char lvl? some kind of sacrifice/ps would be great

[Jayma]

I think I will be sticking with AS. for elemental for the first tiers. The 5% haste is gonna be really nice then and I really like my Ele to run around and cast like a boss, so the 1 min CD for a instant LvB + the t12 4pc in lava surge is really the playstyle I'm looking for. Maybe in later content where haste is in mass on equip, I would switch to EM or EotE maybe.

For resto EotE is kinda useless I think, so again I would prefer AS. Don't like the long cd on EM for resto.

Maybe Enhance has the most benefit for EotE if haste still scales badly like now in Cata, but I'm not a experienced enhancement player

Unless I missed something LvB is still on the global. So first of all even if it was possible to make Lavaburst instant you would still in most cases use it on lightning bolt. Secondly unless a fight has crazy movement having an instant cast every minute seems unnecessary.

I'm thinking EM for more on demand burst, especially with Ascendance+trinkets etc..... EotE would probably pull ahead overall, but I'm not sure.

[Protoman]

What they could do is just make it so WS and LS no longer have orbs at all and as far as Rolling Thunder/Fulmination goes just have it add charges, up to +6 like it does now.

Yes, that's another option too. Prob even better since thats basically what they did with priest inner fire, removed stacks and made a passive buff. No point in having stacks for all 3 specs if only Ele has any mechanic that revolves around them.

Make WS and LS a passive buff that simply procs damage or mana, does not get removed by damage taken baseline. Roll thunder can be a seperate stacking buff for Ele only, that can be consumed for fulm.

WS orbs should return a % of mana pool too, not a static amount. Maybe like 3%.

Unless they change AS you can't cast Lavaburst through it. Nature spell only.

Damn, dunno how I overlooked that. Guess it can't be used w/ LvB. Oh well, still good for LB, hex, or heals.....and prob EB too.

First of all, sry for my english

My question is to all beta (resto)testers and about the t6 talent Primal Elementalist.
Both elementals give a channeled buff, which increase healing by 10% . It has a 10sek cd but doesnt say how long it`s up.
Is it the hole time up, the elemental exist and so, the elementals (only) cant attack?

Would be awesome....and makes the fire elemental glype another resto alternative

ps: 2nd Questions....are these 4 talents everything or got the elementals other new talents on higher char lvl? some kind of sacrifice/ps would be great

Don't think anyone has the answer to your question yet, since we can't access the lvl 90 primal ele talent to test out the new abilities. I think the older version had the channel at a 1min cd, so you could only use one 10sec channel per ele summon. The newer versions seem to have the cd and channel at 10 sec, so I guess you could have it channel for the entire 1min.....that seems kinda OP though to get a bonus to damage or defense for an entire min.

It would be cool if the Earth ele could channel his defensive cd onto other targets, that would give Resto a new tank cd.

And I think those are the only 4 abilities it has, but only if you pick the talent. The normal ele's just have their same regular abilities, and not even a pet bar I don't think.

[Deleted]

It would be cool if the Earth ele could channel his defensive cd onto other targets, that would give Resto a new tank cd.

Some kind of sacrifice or ps would be great....and is something what is missing and making resto-shaman more equal to holypala (the new paladin hand with the less dot dmg sounds op!)

[ScizCT]

EoE is basically the only good talent on that tier for Enhance, so really hoping it's going to be significant for Enh.

I can't help but wonder how much it would mess up the balance of the tier to change Elemental Mastery to be a +30 mastery cooldown. It'd certainly make it much more appealing for enhance.

[Deleted]

I might be the only one, but I actually like it that they've kept TC a good source of mana regen. Granted right now its propably too strong, but I really like the mechanic of actively contributing for mana regen.

And I've personally never had a problem refreshing WS mid-fight, sure there's a few fights where it drops constantly, Blood Queen in ICC comes to mind, but on those fights it also enables you to go for a more mana heavy healing style. The beta glyph adds another choice to the table, whether you need the extra regen from the orbs at the expense of some healing done from refreshing, or glyph it to be more of a fire and forget spell. I dont necessarily see this as a bad thing

My question is to all beta (resto)testers and about the t6 talent Primal Elementalist.

Can only get to 86 on beta right now, so cannot test the last tier talents yet.

Edit:

WS orbs should return a % of mana pool too, not a static amount. Maybe like 3%.

Don't you think that'd be a bit redundant nowadays when your mana pool wont scale with int anymore? Would've been a welcome change in cata or earlier, but in MoP the amount might aswell be static. Also, since when have unleash life crits given mana back via resurgence?

[Protoman]

Some kind of sacrifice or ps would be great....and is something what is missing and making resto-shaman more equal to holypala (the new paladin hand with the less dot dmg sounds op!)

I didn't realize what you meant by PS at first.....but yea a tank cd would be sweet for Resto, its one tool they still seem to be missing compared to other healers. Would def give some more value to the Primal Ele talent as well.

I can't help but wonder how much it would mess up the balance of the tier to change Elemental Mastery to be a +30 mastery cooldown. It'd certainly make it much more appealing for enhance.

That would be cool, def would make it an obvious choice though.....but then again right now the obvious choice is EoE for Enhance, and for Ele/Resto one of the 2 on use cd's. Maybe Ele mastery will take your highest secondary stat, but only from haste or mastery....not crit. That would be pretty cool.

Although, that doesn't solve the problem of haste being of less value to Enhance. I'd rather see that fixed, because we still got bloodlust which is not as effective, and I'm sure raids will have zone buffs like DS has their 20% haste.

I might be the only one, but I actually like it that they've kept TC a good source of mana regen. Granted right now its propably too strong, but I really like the mechanic of actively contributing for mana regen.

And I've personally never had a problem refreshing WS mid-fight, sure there's a few fights where it drops constantly, Blood Queen in ICC comes to mind, but on those fights it also enables you to go for a more mana heavy healing style. The beta glyph adds another choice to the table, whether you need the extra regen from the orbs at the expense of some healing done from refreshing, or glyph it to be more of a fire and forget spell. I dont necessarily see this as a bad thing

TC is alright, but it became annoying to me when it was no longer optional, and became almost mandatory. I have no doubt that they will be balancing our mana regen with TC in mind, which is unfair. And that all Resto will be using it right from the start of MoP.

The beta glyph for WS is pretty dumb imo. The majority of the mana return from WS comes from the orb proc, not the passive benefit. And more importantly, WS is a core class mechanic for mana regen, it should not be so easy to remove and resto should not have to waste a gcd every 10 sec to reapply it. What was the point of increasing duration to 60min if it can still be removed in 10 sec?

The "not reduced by damage" should be part of Ele shields baseline. Resto has plenty of other things to do with it's gcds like heal, use totems, cc/dispel, or cast dps spells like LB or EB. The archaic and tedious mechanic of refreshing WS should go die before MoP gets out of beta.

[Endus]

Don't you think that'd be a bit redundant nowadays when your mana pool wont scale with int anymore? Would've been a welcome change in cata or earlier, but in MoP the amount might aswell be static. Also, since when have unleash life crits given mana back via resurgence?

It would be. Returning 2% of our mana pool at 85 would be 2,000 mana, and writing it either way doesn't change anything since mana no longer scales.

[Manu9]

It would be. Returning 2% of our mana pool at 85 would be 2,000 mana, and writing it either way doesn't change anything since mana no longer scales.

Btw I think people forget, 2k Mana is only 2% at 85, at 90 the BASE mana will increase, so the 400% will be more than 102k.

[Endus]

Btw I think people forget, 2k Mana is only 2% at 85, at 90 the BASE mana will increase, so the 400% will be more than 102k.

Which is why I keep saying that we need to test mana regen at 90 to say if it's "enough" or not. Nobody cares what your mana regen is like at level 72, or in MoP, at 85. It's not relevant to competitive gameplay.

[Deleted]

Damn, I didn't notice that little detail, I hope they "fix" that then

[Protoman]

Don't you think that'd be a bit redundant nowadays when your mana pool wont scale with int anymore? Would've been a welcome change in cata or earlier, but in MoP the amount might aswell be static. Also, since when have unleash life crits given mana back via resurgence?

It would be. Returning 2% of our mana pool at 85 would be 2,000 mana, and writing it either way doesn't change anything since mana no longer scales.

% of mana is still better then a static amount. Mana pool will increase as you level to 90, and even then you never know if you might get some item like a trinket, or a raid buff that will temporarily increase your mana pool.....this way you get the same reliable amount back, while a static amount will not.

[Manu9]

There's something I'm unsure of atm, since it doesn't clearly state, does the level 90 Elementals talent makes them permenant? I guess we can only speculate as of yet?

[Radux]

There's something I'm unsure of atm, since it doesn't clearly state, does the level 90 Elementals talent makes them permenant? I guess we can only speculate as of yet?

Pretty much just speculate.

Right now there's nothing in the text to indicate that they're permanent, but the guy at Joystiq (or whatever it was) did a quick once over and made mention of them being permanent.

So it's one of those... Wait and See sort of things right now.

[Protoman]

There's something I'm unsure of atm, since it doesn't clearly state, does the level 90 Elementals talent makes them permenant? I guess we can only speculate as of yet?

I'm pretty sure they are just stronger cd's, not permanent. Thats way too much of a change for the class, and with stronger power and abilities, it would easily be the best choice. Would also make some of the glyphs like fire ele, and talents like totem reset seem less useful. If we could have perma pets or the talent made the totem cd zero, I feel like it would have mentioned that.

Right now there's nothing in the text to indicate that they're permanent, but the guy at Joystiq (or whatever it was) did a quick once over and made mention of them being permanent.

Lol....that dude joystiq got so many people hyped....lotta shaman still think we will get a perma pet or EB is a cone attack.