[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Goretex]

They actually NERFED MM, oh wow.

I dont like any nerfs for hunters but wouldn't be bothered by MM nerf since I hate MM as a spec.

[Deleted]

its still very odd when they nerfbat the by far weakest hunterspecc heavily. probalby blizz employees tested mm dps at the raiddummies

[docwyrick]

I have not participated in beta for computer related issues, however i have been doing some research to stay up to date on hunter's state in beta. I am looking for some actual clarification because I am reading mixed signals. On one hand I read on various forums that BM and SV hunters are in a good state (before this latest build), and i have read where they were terrible. Now after this build, I read they are terrible and that they are OK. Basically, what is our state in PvE?

[Deleted]

So I ran some dummy tests on beta today and my dps was actually higher than it was before the patch. Does anyone know if some ability was fixed or changed that wasn't stated in the notes?

I didn't notice it in my previous tests, but i read that the Pets were also debuffed by the Raid dummies (10% less dmg debuff). That was fixed when i did my tests today and my DPS was also higher than with the last build.

[Neidrah]

This build got the tag (release x86). I get goosebumps to thnk that this will go live at it is now.

• remove aspect from gcd
• rework focus fire into something useful/interesting
• MMM to 100% with the need of higher stack count to get a feeling and chance to alter the rotation
• nasty lynx rush attack positioning

Also I wish they would have a ranking for shots for all specs like: stampede > kill shot > specc-specific > talent > arcane > steady/cobra > autohit.
right now it this for mm: stampede > lynx > dire beast > killshot > glaive > chim > aimed > arcane > ranged > steady and I think it is awful

I want to focus into the spec, not use the spec as filler till my talents are ready again, maybe I'm alone with this =(

I completely agree with that. Having our 3 best attacks being pet related/talents spell is just awful. I just feel like my spec is just a filler.

[Windthorn]

I wouldn't credit with Blizz always knowing whats correct with their internal testing. Remember pre DS when everyone was saying that hunters needed buffing vs legendary casters and melee with 10% more AP. GC went on record saying "Hunter DPS is fine, even high" and then what followed was hunters being left out of some world firsts of DS followed by a round of big buffs. This is in light of the fact that people talked about scaling issues at the start of Cata but its taken an entire expansion for them to sort that out. They've sorted alot out but hunters still need tweaking. It seems they have struggled with hunters ever since start of Wrath when they hammered BM. I just hope they don't hammer BM again as its looking with Surv close by as the top spec. MM is just not working imo with the way SS pairs work for ISS. We almost have too much focus I feel at times for MM to work correctly and the spec needs some work on to make it less clunky. I'm guess ES has been nerfed as they reduced the cost of it significantly so they probably feel they need it to do as much damage as an arcane shot does (approx) which kinda sucks for a signature shot.

[Grubjuice]

I wish there were more pet-based abilities. Gawd there isn't a single lvl90 talent that is for BM. What that fel!?

And am i forced to use 'ranged attacks' i am not a SV hunter, why should i use arcane shot or Cobra Shot? Why can't i have a pet related focus dump, and a pet related focus builder. If i wanted to play without pets i would be MM or something. Gawd.

[Jeebis]

Excuse me, when was readiness removed from hunters in MoP Beta???

**edit never-mind** I almost had a heart attack over my morning coffee. Must have been sleep in my eyes!

[Gotjuice]

Excuse me, when was readiness removed from hunters in MoP Beta???

**edit never-mind** I almost had a heart attack over my morning coffee. Must have been sleep in my eyes!

Nah they just took it from MM (with no compensation btw) and gave it to all the other specs with a 5min CD. God they broke MM... PvP will be awful.

[Grubjuice]

Nah they just took it from MM (with no compensation btw) and gave it to all the other specs with a 5min CD. God they broke MM... PvP will be awful.

you make it sound like it was removed from MM, which it wasn't. it was extended to to SV and BM and nerfed to have a longer CD; not 'taken' from MM.

And yes that means it no longer matches the CD of some core MM cooldown abilities, but that does not make it useless, it just makes it less forgiving to use. and it's pretty frickin sweet for BM and SV.

[Neidrah]

I wish there were more pet-based abilities. Gawd there isn't a single lvl90 talent that is for BM. What that fel!?

And am i forced to use 'ranged attacks' i am not a SV hunter, why should i use arcane shot or Cobra Shot? Why can't i have a pet related focus dump, and a pet related focus builder. If i wanted to play without pets i would be MM or something. Gawd.

I guess you're trolling people (like myself) who say they don't wanna use pet-based abilities when they play MM/SV. Personally I'm not saying I don't wanna use pet abilities, I'm saying I don't wanna use MORE pet abilities than the ones that are already in Cataclysm. I think there's enough already. Moreover there's a difference between using pet-abilities like Bad Manner which I'm fine with (CC, Peel...), and basing part of your DPS on pet-abilties like Dire Beast and Lynx Rush and Stampede. I don't like that. I don't like the feel of it.

---------- Post added 2012-08-22 at 04:54 PM ----------

you make it sound like it was removed from MM, which it wasn't. it was extended to to SV and BM and nerfed to have a longer CD; not 'taken' from MM.

But he's right when he says they took it with no compensation. I think it's a little dumb to literally take the 2 abilities that make a spec good for PvP and give it to everyone without giving something to that spec in exchange. I really don't see what makes MM attractive for anyone right now.

[Deleted]

But he's right when he says they took it with no compensation. I think it's a little dumb to literally take the 2 abilities that make a spec good for PvP and give it to everyone without giving something to that spec in exchange. I really don't see what makes MM attractive for anyone right now.

Not having to have a lot of your damage from your pet, and nothing major spell to have a chance of getting dispelled.

[Serj Tankian]

Haven't they broken us enough with the Aspect nerf? Not even worth changing now.

Welcome back stutter step.

[Renley]

I have not participated in beta for computer related issues, however i have been doing some research to stay up to date on hunter's state in beta. I am looking for some actual clarification because I am reading mixed signals. On one hand I read on various forums that BM and SV hunters are in a good state (before this latest build), and i have read where they were terrible. Now after this build, I read they are terrible and that they are OK. Basically, what is our state in PvE?

The issue comes in when people start quoting SimC as actual proof that we are doing bad. While the numbers for hunters on there are fairly accurate due to wonderful people working hard to make sure its working, the other class numbers are/probably are inflated. In theory, we look like were in a bad spot compared to others, but in practice, we're in a great spot sitting at the top.

[twistz6]

I really don't like how MM and survival hunters are being forced into pet related DAMAGE abilities, and to make matters worse, these abilities does more DPS/damage than our signature shots. Combine this with the fact that there isn't a single thing either of these specs can do, that BM can't do better, and the few things that made these specs special and good, were given to BM, they are just weaker forms of the BM spec, they're just there to be flashy, to decorate.

INB4 BM deserved this, they have been horrible since naxx when they overnerfed us.
yes, i do believe you deserved something better, and the spec have always been intruging and special, but for the cost of two other specs? They aren't even competetive compared to BM, and they won't be unless they get their damage buffed to the point of being overpowered.


PvP point of view

[Renley]

I really don't like how MM and survival hunters are being forced into pet related DAMAGE abilities, and to make matters worse, these abilities does more DPS/damage than our signature shots. Combine this with the fact that there isn't a single thing either of these specs can do, that BM can't do better, and the few things that made these specs special and good, were given to BM, they are just weaker forms of the BM spec, they're just there to be flashy, to decorate.

INB4 BM deserved this, they have been horrible since naxx when they overnerfed us.
yes, i do believe you deserved something better, and the spec have always been intruging and special, but for the cost of two other specs? They aren't even competetive compared to BM, and they won't be unless they get their damage buffed to the point of being overpowered.


PvP point of view

Well, while I mostly agree on MM and SV lacking in terms of uniqueness for PvP, SV does have Entrapment. MM, however, is just..ugh. I dunno though, I'm actually glad BM is shining. It hasn't done well in PvE for quite a well, and is decent in PvP, so the overall buff to it is nice. Also, don't forget that SV and MM have Silencing Shot/Readiness/etc still. Granted, BM has more CC, healing, and PvP utility. I still see lots of videos of MoP hunters PvPing as MM and doing quite well(such as Zumio).

[twistz6]

Well, while I mostly agree on MM and SV lacking in terms of uniqueness for PvP, SV does have Entrapment. MM, however, is just..ugh. I dunno though, I'm actually glad BM is shining. It hasn't done well in PvE for quite a well, and is decent in PvP, so the overall buff to it is nice. Also, don't forget that SV and MM have Silencing Shot/Readiness/etc still. Granted, BM has more CC, healing, and PvP utility. I still see lots of videos of MoP hunters PvPing as MM and doing quite well(such as Zumio).

Entrapment isn't close to enough to make them outshine BM, or even be close to on par with BM.
especially as they will lose out on explosive trap knockback because of the high need for black arrow, and how serpent sting and black arrow is both dispellable really ruins the spec for PvP.

I'm glad BM is doing well in PvE aswell, i think it's great, i think it's great that it brings something for PvP too, but this is overkill, it does everything better than the two other specs, and it seems that the MoP design for hunters is centered around BM, pets and such are everywhere, and when the best damaging abilities for MM and surv becomes pet related, it's easy to see that something have gone horribly wrong.

Also, it doesn't matter that both MM and surv has silencing shot and readiness (something that should have stuck to the MM spec alone anyways), when the BM spec has it aswell, they bring nothing to the table by choosing either of these specs, and considering that BM hunters have like 3 trinkets right now (ordinary trinket and double BW through readiness), MM and surv are FAR FAAAAAR behind.

Every spec will do just fine in 1v1 and 1vX yeah, that's more up to the player behind the screen, you will of course have certain advantages by choosing the best spec at the time, but that can be worked around.
In a rated enviorement, it won't work the same way, sadly. The spec with the most utility, damage, cc and such will always be the chosen spec, and even if the damage of the spec is lower than the others, the other tools of the spec makes up for it. That's why i believe that the MM or surv spec damage will have to be buffed to extreme levels to be able to compete with BM in a rated PvP enviorement, or the utility tools of BM will have to be stripped away, but that's far to late now.

Think of it like playing MM in your progress run in heroic BoT, no matter how you look at it, it just wouldn't be worth it

[Dch48]

My latest sims at femaledwarf are showing all 3 specs with a small loss in damage. They are however showing BM ahead of MM by 10k and MM now ahead of SV by 1k. (this is with Aimed only being used on proc). The nerfs to Explosive Shot are far too severe. Dire Beast and Lynx Rush are the choices for BM, Fervor and MoC for SV ,and DB and MoC for MM. The sims were done with BiS PvE gear, gems and enchants, and with all buffs and debuffs applied.

[Arrowset]

Explosive trap glyph isn't as big a deal as I thought it was initially tbh. I'll still take it I'm sure, but I have to pass up the mirrored blades glyph to do so, and that is a really nice glyph especially with BM getting two deterrences now. People don't really expect deterrence to reflect spells back at them, and on live lots of times spells will go through deterrence, especially if you are dismissing a pet in deterrence (as I usually am). So when I tested mirrored blades glyph on beta it worked really well- lots of mages deep freezing themselves and stuff like that. Plus, with all the sprints people have nowadays the explosive trap knockback only buys you a bit of time in most situations.

So I think a survival hunter with mirrored blades glyph would be pretty effective. Not saying BM isn't better, but being able to bypass armor as SV is very nice, especially since there's an 8 second cd on defensive dispels now. So most healers will have to think twice about using their precious dispel on black arrow. And if they do dispel it, you can freezing trap a dps target without having to worry about it being dispelled.

[Drakoes]

Yeah, Mirrored Blades is really nice on the beta atm, I've had so much fun with it. Most players that I've fought don't even know about it either, as long as you... well, don't make it look too obvious with regards to when you're popping detterence. The only thing that kinda sucks about it is that DKs actually benefit from this glyph, as you'll pull them towards you, lol (need to watch out for that).