[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Dracodraco]

So, went on there and tested, Cobra shot hits a truckload harder than arcane shot (29279 average vs 20622 average). On the other hand, A cobra shot takes 1.89 seconds to fire, while an Arcane shot takes 1 second - which means that Arcane shot still edges out Cobra shot in both mobility, and DPS. If your focus bar is full and it won't affect Explo shot and Black Arrow, just fire away.
Here's a overview of the DMG spread and the dps (few notes - reforge is bugged ATM, the client crashes if you as much as try to put an item in the reforge window, which means that I'm running in full PvP gear, no gems, 6.38% hit and 4.74% expertise - AKA, being able to reforge I'd easily gain another 5K dps through not actually missing/getting dodged -.-) - note that I also did not use Stampede, cos I'm tired as fuck (won't include it for the other's either, cba redoing):


As for Marksmanship, it's clearly far behind - dummy tests are never a good indication because it has Careful Aim, but even with that playing in it's favor, it's behind Survival's damage (note: I did not hardcast aimed shot, as that is a playstyle that Blizzard has tried to shoo us away from for a long time, and Careful Aim would fuck up the result, so Arcane-dump):

(note: Powershot did 280K dmg over 5 shots, not included here).

Same handicap as Surv, no Stampede/not hit or expertise capped.

BM did less than the two (but probably does slightly better than MM, if you do not consider Careful Aim) - priorities was to use focus fire when it hit 5 stacks, KC on CD, and not overcapping focus:


No idea why the numbers doesn't add up (according to the dmg overview of all my pets, I do 45931 dps, but when I merge them, 42166?).

Gear stats, just to get it out of the way:


Make of it what you want, I know for a fact I'm able to push the limits of what's capable DPS-wise. Remember that in the raid, I had multiple raid buffs (such as haste, 5% agility, 5% crit, etc, etc), my gear was scaled up to a 496 Ilvl (up from 480), which also resulted in being *almost* hit/expertise capped, and I was using my old 4 set which gave me more focus and the haste procs (T13) because it scales up aswell .

Are you sure about the 120k ? Really doesn't sound right to me, as that is roughly twice the amount I'm used to seeing so far from the normal mode tests.



Getting high ranks early on has a lot to do with how fast your guild progresses as well as how lucky you are. I was rank 2 BM hunter on Yor'sahj 25hc the first week.

...there were only 2 BM hunter logs on that fight at that point.

Yes, I'm quite sure, unless my recount was out of whack. Once again, we only managed to burn 50M hp off of the boss, so I spent about 30 seconds out of 2 minutes under cooldowns, so 100-110K might be more reliable.

Sure, but looking at those 3 logs in specific,
The Surv kill was achieved 5-3-2012 (at that point, I had done 12 previous Ultraxion HC kills as surv).
The MM kill was achieved 4-4-2012 (before I got a vial, too).
The BM kill was achieved 5-10-2012 (a week after the surv kill).

None of those dates are affected by being there "early" - the earliest rank is from MM, and at that point, about 1450 guilds had killed Ultraxion Heroic. I do see your point, but I'm not stupid enough to think that the ranks I get from week 1 through 4 are actually meaningfull.

[Godspeed]

There is a lot of target switching on that fight, and a lot of downtime, so I don't think its possible to sustain 100k there. Maybe around 80k with proper gear and reforges. At least if we are judging by that dummy test.

[Dracodraco]

There is a lot of target switching on that fight, and a lot of downtime, so I don't think its possible to sustain 100k there. Maybe around 80k with proper gear and reforges. At least if we are judging by that dummy test.

We never got to the adds, this was pure tank-and-spank, getting her out of hiding, tank and spank for another 40 seconds, getting her out of hiding, then get blown to pieces by waves of "get the fuck away retards" :<.
Regardless, target switching barely affects hunters (we have no ramp up time, just a single serpent sting and we're rolling).

[Renley]

So, went on there and tested, Cobra shot hits a truckload harder than arcane shot (29279 average vs 20622 average). On the other hand, A cobra shot takes 1.89 seconds to fire, while an Arcane shot takes 1 second - which means that Arcane shot still edges out Cobra shot in both mobility, and DPS. If your focus bar is full and it won't affect Explo shot and Black Arrow, just fire away.
Here's a overview of the DMG spread and the dps (few notes - reforge is bugged ATM, the client crashes if you as much as try to put an item in the reforge window, which means that I'm running in full PvP gear, no gems, 6.38% hit and 4.74% expertise - AKA, being able to reforge I'd easily gain another 5K dps through not actually missing/getting dodged -.-) - note that I also did not use Stampede, cos I'm tired as fuck (won't include it for the other's either, cba redoing):


As for Marksmanship, it's clearly far behind - dummy tests are never a good indication because it has Careful Aim, but even with that playing in it's favor, it's behind Survival's damage (note: I did not hardcast aimed shot, as that is a playstyle that Blizzard has tried to shoo us away from for a long time, and Careful Aim would fuck up the result, so Arcane-dump):

(note: Powershot did 280K dmg over 5 shots, not included here).

Same handicap as Surv, no Stampede/not hit or expertise capped.

BM did less than the two (but probably does slightly better than MM, if you do not consider Careful Aim) - priorities was to use focus fire when it hit 5 stacks, KC on CD, and not overcapping focus:


No idea why the numbers doesn't add up (according to the dmg overview of all my pets, I do 45931 dps, but when I merge them, 42166?).

Gear stats, just to get it out of the way:


Make of it what you want, I know for a fact I'm able to push the limits of what's capable DPS-wise. Remember that in the raid, I had multiple raid buffs (such as haste, 5% agility, 5% crit, etc, etc), my gear was scaled up to a 496 Ilvl (up from 480), which also resulted in being *almost* hit/expertise capped, and I was using my old 4 set which gave me more focus and the haste procs (T13) because it scales up aswell .




Yes, I'm quite sure, unless my recount was out of whack. Once again, we only managed to burn 50M hp off of the boss, so I spent about 30 seconds out of 2 minutes under cooldowns, so 100-110K might be more reliable.

Sure, but looking at those 3 logs in specific,
The Surv kill was achieved 5-3-2012 (at that point, I had done 12 previous Ultraxion HC kills as surv).
The MM kill was achieved 4-4-2012 (before I got a vial, too).
The BM kill was achieved 5-10-2012 (a week after the surv kill).

None of those dates are affected by being there "early" - the earliest rank is from MM, and at that point, about 1450 guilds had killed Ultraxion Heroic. I do see your point, but I'm not stupid enough to think that the ranks I get from week 1 through 4 are actually meaningfull.

Oh nice, so its not that far behing SV(BM that is). Thats odd that it adds up funny in Recount. Encouraging! Were these all with the same talents? If so, I wonder how BM does with fervor for the pet focus. Could you(pretty please) see how much Dire Beast does as BM?

[Dracodraco]

Oh nice, so its not that far behing SV(BM that is). Thats odd that it adds up funny in Recount. Encouraging! Were these all with the same talents? If so, I wonder how BM does with fervor for the pet focus. Could you(pretty please) see how much Dire Beast does as BM?

Same talents yes, Powershot/Crows and Thrill of the hunt. Cobra shot did an average of 25K, and Arcane shot an average of 18K - which once again means that AS wins out, *just* because it is more DPS due to cast times (but less so, considering I have about 75% uptime of a speed buff as BM, with even higher uptimes in raids due to increased attack speed buff).

Dire beast seems very... Interesting, I guess - testing it a few times, it did:

8 Attacks, 7.5K dps (3 hit 2 crit 2 glancing 1 miss, swine pet - 15K dmg avg per hit).
9 Attacks, 8.4K dps (5 hits, 2 glancing, 1 crit, 1 dodge, scorpion pet - this one's melee attacks did 3K average dmg more than the swine's, at 18K dmg avg).
8 Attacks, 3.5K dps (3 hits, 2 glancing, 2 miss, 1 dodge, 13.2K avg hits, bird-strider-thing).
8 Attacks, 6.2K dps (6 hit, 1 crit, 1 miss, 15K avg dmg per hit, scorpion).
9 Attacks, 5.9K dps (7 hit, 1 crit, 1 miss, 12.2K avg dmg per hit, bird-strider-thing).

Using a Hyena, I reliably got 9 hits every time, but never managed a tenth. The damage also dropped on average, meaning It's quite safe to assume that it scales with both our haste and our mastery as BM, at least. So on average, it'll return 90 focus over a minute in a raid setting, and do approx 3.5-4K dps.

[Renley]

Same talents yes, Powershot/Crows and Thrill of the hunt. Cobra shot did an average of 25K, and Arcane shot an average of 18K - which once again means that AS wins out, *just* because it is more DPS due to cast times (but less so, considering I have about 75% uptime of a speed buff as BM, with even higher uptimes in raids due to increased attack speed buff).

Dire beast seems very... Interesting, I guess - testing it a few times, it did:

8 Attacks, 7.5K dps (3 hit 2 crit 2 glancing 1 miss, swine pet - 15K dmg avg per hit).
9 Attacks, 8.4K dps (5 hits, 2 glancing, 1 crit, 1 dodge, scorpion pet - this one's melee attacks did 3K average dmg more than the swine's, at 18K dmg avg).
8 Attacks, 3.5K dps (3 hits, 2 glancing, 2 miss, 1 dodge, 13.2K avg hits, bird-strider-thing).
8 Attacks, 6.2K dps (6 hit, 1 crit, 1 miss, 15K avg dmg per hit, scorpion).
9 Attacks, 5.9K dps (7 hit, 1 crit, 1 miss, 12.2K avg dmg per hit, bird-strider-thing).

Using a Hyena, I reliably got 9 hits every time, but never managed a tenth. The damage also dropped on average, meaning It's quite safe to assume that it scales with both our haste and our mastery as BM, at least. So on average, it'll return 90 focus over a minute in a raid setting, and do approx 3.5-4K dps.

Huh, not bad. Thats a pretty big chunk of damage on the dummies. If you're in the super testy mood, Id be interested in seeing how BM performs with Dire Beast instead of TotH on the dummies. If not, no worries! Thanks for all the testing btw.

[Goretex]

I did some testing with TotH a day or 2 ago on beta with my 86 hunter hitting on a ?? Raid dummy and random mobs around Pang's Stead. I'm almost willing to say TotH will beat out the other 2 talents. I counted about 3x TotH procced back to back and gave me 4 arcane shots(or Multi shots) for free. If they keep TotH like it is, it may be worth taking over the other two. However there were a few times TotH procced and ArCshot and multi shot didn't light up or give me any free shots.

But what I think they should do with TotH is give cobra/steady shot a 15% chance to be an instant shot. Now this would awesome lol.

Also I find Aspect dancing very annoying, they should just merge Aspect of Iron hawk and Aspect of the Fox. It's not like other classes can't interrupt us. Also they should merge Aspect of Cheetah and Aspect of the Pack into 1 Aspect.

Another idea I had that would be another QoL issue is to merge Widow's Venom in with Serpent Sting and make it one shot. I would love if blizz put this in

Note: Forgot to add I was in BM spec on the Beta. Also how did that guy 2 posts up get Recount in beta? I went to addon tab on character screen and there were no addons just blizz ui stuff.

[Renley]

I did some testing with TotH a day or 2 ago on beta with my 86 hunter hitting on a ?? Raid dummy and random mobs around Pang's Stead. I'm almost willing to say TotH will beat out the other 2 talents. I counted about 3x TotH procced back to back and gave me 4 arcane shots(or Multi shots) for free. If they keep TotH like it is, it may be worth taking over the other two. However there were a few times TotH procced and ArCshot and multi shot didn't light up or give me any free shots.

But what I think they should do with TotH is give cobra/steady shot a 15% chance to be an instant shot. Now this would awesome lol.

Also I find Aspect dancing very annoying, they should just merge Aspect of Iron hawk and Aspect of the Fox. It's not like other classes can't interrupt us. Also they should merge Aspect of Cheetah and Aspect of the Pack into 1 Aspect.

Another idea I had that would be another QoL issue is to merge Widow's Venom in with Serpent Sting and make it one shot. I would love if blizz put this in

Note: Forgot to add I was in BM spec on the Beta. Also how did that guy 2 posts up get Recount in beta? I went to addon tab on character screen and there were no addons just blizz ui stuff.

You have to manually download addons. And the Widow Venom/Serpent Sting is something I'd like as well. Can't merge Pack and Cheetah because that would anger every person who got hit and dazed. xD That TotH idea is neat though.

Also, TotH won't be this powerful next build. Getting reduced to 2 Arcane Shot/Multishots at 20 reduced focus cost, rather than free.

[Dracodraco]

Huh, not bad. Thats a pretty big chunk of damage on the dummies. If you're in the super testy mood, Id be interested in seeing how BM performs with Dire Beast instead of TotH on the dummies. If not, no worries! Thanks for all the testing btw.

Went to bed, will test when I get back home, have to get a haircut before they close :x.
Regardless, I think I know why I was at 120K dps rather than the 100K that people seem to expect - the Scary Fog seemed to interact with the boss, giving her a dmg taken debuff (5% more dmg taken per stack for anyone with 8? yards range of the person with scary fog) - I'm not sure if it's intended, but I'll assume so, as she had almost four times as much HP on heroic as she did on normal. Balancing it around having 10-20 of those stacks up damaging the raid, but giving you 50-100% increased dmg seems like the way to handle her giant healthpool.

[Neidrah]

That was a great idea someone had above about making aimed shot apply the widow venom effect. MM needs a pvp buff and niche, and that wouldn't be OP because there's only so many pvp situations where you can get off an aimed shot.

That would be so useless lol. There's so many arenas in which you can't get even a single aimed shot.

[Gotjuice]

MS was tied to Aimed when Aimed was instant. Right now you can't attach an MS to Aimed, it has to go on SS or Arcane. Arcane preferably because SS will get dispelled. Dispells are supposed to be more costly in MoP so that can maybe work? Adding it on Arcane would be ideal in my opinion.

[Renley]

MS was tied to Aimed when Aimed was instant. Right now you can't attach an MS to Aimed, it has to go on SS or Arcane. Arcane preferably because SS will get dispelled. Dispells are supposed to be more costly in MoP so that can maybe work? Adding it on Arcane would be ideal in my opinion.

You could still tie it to Serpent Sting and have it apply a second debuff. Though, Arcane Shot probably would be preferable when you don't want to DoT your target for CC.

[Neidrah]

You could still tie it to Serpent Sting and have it apply a second debuff. Though, Arcane Shot probably would be preferable when you don't want to DoT your target for CC.

Or just because Serpent Sting does ridiculous damage while Arcane is in every spec's rotation

[Xemik]

They could just keep them as is, and add a glyph that would give the effect such as:
Glyph of Potent Stings - Your Serpent Sting ability now also applies Widow Venom to your target.
This could also give Survival an interesting combo when combined with Serpent Spread.

[Gotjuice]

They could just keep them as is, and add a glyph that would give the effect such as:
Glyph of Potent Stings - Your Serpent Sting ability now also applies Widow Venom to your target.
This could also give Survival an interesting combo when combined with Serpent Spread.

No, that would make the glyph a must. They need to just bake it in and in the process free some binds.

[Renley]

No, that would make the glyph a must. They need to just bake it in and in the process free some binds.

Agreed. But really, it needs to be baked into Arcane Shot. They tried that whole Concussive Shot baked in, why not Widow Venom?

[Dch48]

Since Recount now works in the beta I decided to try out BM vs SV on a target dummy. I don't get how people are saying BM is lagging behind because I can do almost 15% better as BM than as SV. I see no pet scaling issues at all, in fact the pets are truly beasts and do 25% of my total damage even in SV compared to 11-12% on Live. Using Blink Strike in SV is a big boost. As BM, I have a hard time outdoing a Cat or Spirit Beast on the dummy and only outdo them by about 3-5%.

[flzk]

i dont know if this has been reportet yet but if you have an active toth procc and lock n load proccs in that time your lnl stacks dont get removed. you can spam explo shot for the full duration of the toth buff, which can proc again from the explosive shots

[Renley]

Since Recount now works in the beta I decided to try out BM vs SV on a target dummy. I don't get how people are saying BM is lagging behind because I can do almost 15% better as BM than as SV. I see no pet scaling issues at all, in fact the pets are truly beasts and do 25% of my total damage even in SV compared to 11-12% on Live. Using Blink Strike in SV is a big boost. As BM, I have a hard time outdoing a Cat or Spirit Beast on the dummy and only outdo them by about 3-5%.

Is this at 90? How much DPS were you getting as BM compared to SV? Also, the pet scaling and BM lagging behind was mostly pre-this patch. I believe this patch is what fixed pets(essentially fixing BM too)

[Dracodraco]

Since Recount now works in the beta I decided to try out BM vs SV on a target dummy. I don't get how people are saying BM is lagging behind because I can do almost 15% better as BM than as SV. I see no pet scaling issues at all, in fact the pets are truly beasts and do 25% of my total damage even in SV compared to 11-12% on Live. Using Blink Strike in SV is a big boost. As BM, I have a hard time outdoing a Cat or Spirit Beast on the dummy and only outdo them by about 3-5%.

And exactly how much damage do you do, with both specs? If you're in ungemmed / enchanted PvP gear like I was, and are doing 45K dps as BM and 38-39K as surv, it just means you're not playing Surv to its full potential. If you're managing to do 50K as BM, I'd like to hear how (unless stampede is truly worth that much if used together with BM than it is with surv/mm). Mind, my pet was doing about 33% of my damage as BM.