Shockadins in MoP... Maybe

[Komie]

Metamorphosis is unlimited duration, they have a taunt and defensive CDs, sounds like a tank.

---------- Post added 2012-03-24 at 02:32 AM ----------



YEAH, this exactly, I mean look at the holy shock glyph, healing is halved and damage doubled, put that on some other paladin stuff, and you have a decent spell caster spec.

Whats the point?

If it's unlimited, pretty much every warlock with that spec would just spend the entire time in that spec. If it's no longer a cooldown, then it just becomes a straight passive buff to pretty much everything.

[Vuagnon]

You're just not getting this concept are you? It's not a "spec" and it won't be developed. You're totally allowed to have fun with your "creative" builds but don't foist the underperformance of your wishfull thinking on anyone else who doesn't have a choice but to carry you.

Okay kid.. Listen, everyone knows that it's not a real spec at this stage, trying to be cocky about this known fact doesn't make you look cool. We all know it, and had known it before you even touched this game's cover. Besides, I can't see a reason to entirely rule that possibility out. If they decided to do it and do it properly from scratch, maybe sometime in the future, then it could be as viable as any other dps spec in the game, without being overpowered.

Who the fuck are you to say that we are trying to foist underperformed ideas here? Are you a fucking judge to decide how good the ideas here are? Perhaps it's you who is trying to spout some unreal shit about people just because you are upset about people talking about something that you simply don't like. You obviously aren't the person to decide if people's wishful thinking is underperformed or not unless you have an official responsibility for this game's development team and if you don't, you may as well shut the fuck up about it because your claims hold no value at all.

Clearly you are one who is offended by logic and reason. Why I am able to say with absolute certainty that Shockadin will never be raid viable is clearly detailed in my previous post. It's the same reason why Blizzard will never create a spec that heals as good as any other Healer while, at the same time, doing as much damage as any other DPS. It's simple existance would invalidate any other non-tanking spec.

I'm offended by the attitiude of an asshole, have seen neither logic nor reason yet. And again, no.. You aren't able to say with absoulte certainty that Shockadin will never be raid viable unless you are speaking with an official responsibility. If you fail to prove it, I will continue assuming that you are a bullshit spouting, cockless bastard.

Wow. Someone's upset. Simmer down. Additionally, are you defending the poor animals from no-smoking signs everywhere, or are they "worthless"? Your insult loses some bite when it makes no sense.

I'm at least respecting the animals' sexual rights unlike you, lowlife. And how do you know if I care for animals or not? Your ignorance and prejudice about this matter makes your statement worthless to talk about.


Flaming does not help on any level of this conversation. - Malthanis

[Firecrest]

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Your insults belie your obvious lack of understanding and the shit you’re saying makes no sense.

However, there is value to continuing this conversation. It puts into stark clarity the folly of pushing Shockadin as a realistic, competitive spec. In less words: You’re so wrong that you’re putting forth a great case for your opposition.

I do feel the need to clarify a few things for everyone else though. There is nothing wrong with trying out wonky specs. Blizzard is making this more and more impossible with the streamlining of their talent trees but, seriously, kudos to those who keep trying. If your raid, arena team or RBG group gives you the okay - go ahead and play it to your heart’s content. DON’T queue up in LFG/LFR/BGs that way though. And DON’T try to convince people that your pet spec is competitively viable. Have fun with your creative ideas, but don’t force people into carrying you for them.

If, in the future, Blizzard decides to give everyone a fourth spec, a ranged caster would be an obvious choice for our class. It may even be called a Shockadin. It will not be equal parts Healer and DPS though. If you do equal damage as any other DPS and equal healing as any other Healer, there is literally no reason for anyone to ever play any other spec or class other than Tank – you’re, literally, two characters in one and ridiculously overpowered. If you do ½ the healing of a Healer and ½ the damage of a DPS, there are logistical issues that cannot be overcome. How do you integrate yourself into groups? There are occasionally 10 man fights where 2 Healers is too few and 3 Healers are too many, but this is normally just for a fleeting amount of time as you overgear an encounter. More importantly, when you queue for a LFG... What button do you press? You’re either over or under healing no matter what you do.

Ranged Caster with some healing capabilities may one day be in the cards. But never expect both DPS and Healing in equal parts. It just won’t work.

Okay kid.. Listen, everyone knows that it's not a real spec at this stage, trying to be cocky about this known fact doesn't make you look cool. We all know it, and had known it before you even touched this game's cover. Besides, I can't see a reason to entirely rule that possibility out. If they decided to do it and do it properly from scratch, maybe sometime in the future, then it could be as viable as any other dps spec in the game, without being overpowered.

Who the fuck are you to say that we are trying to foist underperformed ideas here? Are you a fucking judge to decide how good the ideas here are? Perhaps it's you who is trying to spout some unreal shit about people just because you are upset about people talking about something that you simply don't like. You obviously aren't the person to decide if people's wishful thinking is underperformed or not unless you have an official responsibility for this game's development team and if you don't, you may as well shut the fuck up about it because your claims hold no value at all.

You seem to have some problem understanding the definition of “underperform”. I am not judging “how good the ideas here are”. As I’ve said before, if someone enjoys playing a Shockadin, more power to them. I am judging how viable the Shockadin build is in a raid setting. Which is to say not at all. Which is why forcing it into an unwilling raid is such a bad idea.

I'm offended by the attitiude of an asshole, have seen neither logic nor reason yet. And again, no.. You aren't able to say with absoulte certainty that Shockadin will never be raid viable unless you are speaking with an official responsibility. If you fail to prove it, I will continue assuming that you are a bullshit spouting, cockless bastard.

There are two points you’re continually failing to grasp:

1) Shockadin is not currently raid viable. This is a matter of fact. You can continue to argue its case, but no one agrees with you.
2) Shockadin will never be raid viable. This is a matter of opinion. Mine is based in the points I’ve made previously (namely that a viable simultaneous Healer/DPS spec invalidates other specs). Yours is based on nothing.

I'm at least respecting the animals' sexual rights unlike you, lowlife. And how do you know if I care for animals or not? Your ignorance and prejudice about this matter makes your statement worthless to talk about.

Sooooo tempted to sig. I much prefer my minimalistic signature though...


Edit:
Fuck it. Putting it in for awhile anyhow.


Provoking him isn't helping this conversation either. - Malthanis
Mod ruling overturned on review. -Firecrest

[Deleted]

2)Shockadin will never be raid viable. This is a matter of opinion. Mine is based in the points I’ve made previously (namely that a viable Healer/DPS spec invalidates other specs). Yours is based on nothing.

Never say never

On Topic:

As it is right now I don't see Shockadin coming into the game as a raid viable spec unless Blizzard adds a 4th spec for paladins. It seems Blizzard is trying to keep away from the two roles one spec thing.
I might be wrong but I'm going to say that Demo locks will not be viable raid tanks.
I would like to see Shockadins return through, but more as a shit and giggles spec in battlegrounds.

[Frozen Death Knight]

I like Shockadins, but seriously, I don't see why we need it to be a viable way of speccing when it comes to raiding. Did we not have enough problems with Ret Paladins being too good at dps and healing back in "WotLK"? Unless Blizzard do something similar like they did to Druids and give us a 4th spec where it is built around solely on ranged dps, I don't want to see any viable Shockadin builds in my Holy spec. I want to keep my prefered healing style intact and not get nerfed to the ground, thank you very much.

[FaxiDerp]

Would be a bit LOL, but hey, with the changes in the talent tree, you can create various weird specs, soooo why not?

I mean.. We already have rumors about the warlock tank, so why not

[Sleepytime831]

People talk about shockadin all the time. I really don't think you will ever see them again.

[Mormolyce]

Love how the forums take a tiny scrap of information from a beta that was only just released and go completely apeshit with it.

No there won't be Warlock tanks. No there won't be DPS Holy Paladins. Some healers seem to be getting a little bit more damage potential rather like Disc priests when they got Evangelism Smiting (which is now going to be available to Holy as well). It will probably work out to about the same level.

[cyan421]

Its a dps spec, not a healing/dpsing spec. Thats the idea. With a few glyphs, you can now dps, instead of heal. In this case shockadin would be an alternative to ret. not half healing half dpsing. Its clear that our hope is that paladins would have the option of range dps.

I would love to play a cholormance in wow, that would be cool.

[Gamdwelf]

Blizzard should stop giving healing specs damage ablilites or this will continue to happen, very excited for this and atonement in MoP.

[Grimbold21]

I've just watched a video of Monk healing. I wasn't able to grasp the entirety of the concept through it, but let me get this straight: they deny the existance and access to what was the shockadin spec and now they make a spec that heals through some sort of dps...

It's the Deathknight deal all over again...

[Aviana]

Quick recording of me.

*edit* Sry for my Fail earlier (wasnt the correct gear) Video is now correct and shows all *edit*

[Pasture]

Quick recording of me.

Are you not using the shockadin glyphs or is your spellpower just painfully low?

That looks painful.

[Seani]

Well the attractive thing about shockadins was that their damage was never reduced or resisted, as I am to understand there will be no more spell resistance as a stat in MoP. So Im not sure how viable a shockadin will be competitively in Pvp, although they still might be fun for the casual player. Regardless, one still cannot deny the utility of a spell like denounce, or the burst damage from a glyphed Holy Shock.

[Gamdwelf]

Are you not using the shockadin glyphs or is your spellpower just painfully low?

That looks painful.

Looks like he does have the correct glyphs, but he doesn't show talents or gear and based on the fact that on live, holy shock crits for double what its showing in this vid I think something is wrong for a few reasons.

1 now there is a glyph to double its base damage
2 crit for all spells has been made to do double damage instead of 1.5 multiplier
3 his holy shock is hitting for only like 4k with no crit, with like 10k spell power that a normal 85 holy paladin would have at 85 it should be hitting normaly with that glyph for almost 20k.

[Valedus]

Shockadins will never be raid viable. This is just fact. Accept it.

In order for Shockadins to be raid viable, two Shockadins would have to do more combined healing and DPS than one Holy and one Ret. This means that, in order for Shockadins to be viable, Holy Palladins and Ret Paladins would, by default, be NOT viable. If you believe that this is a situation Blizzard would allow to stand, you've another think coming.

Look, if you want to have fun with your weird spec while leveling, have at it. Hell, if your RBG or Arena team is okay with it, use it there too. Just, please, don't discuss this like it's ever going to be a raiding possibility. You give people the wrong idea and we're all worse off for having to carry people who're not pulling their weight.

2 changes would need to be done. Make a glyph that does this: Your Holy Specialization's Mastery is transformed. Your Holy spells leave a dot equal to X% of the damage done. Also, your Denounce spell applies your Censure effect and Seal of Insight no longer increases healing done by 5%. Also lowers healing of Word of Glory by 10%.

Then give them a holy power finisher, which even healers argue is necessary for soloing purposes, etc. Be it another DoT (holy dot class? o.o) or a semi-long cast nuke?
The spec needs two changes: Increase in damage at large cost of healing viability and a way to use its Holy Power. Personally, I would find this spec incredibly fun.

[Public Enemy No1]

I don't see why they couldn't make a shockadin work. Druids basically have 4 specs, 2 in one tree, so why can't pallies? I would definitely play that. Ret is boring to me. I know some people like it, but I feel like that'd pretty much add a completely new class if they did combine dps with the holy spec, which would make things a lot more fun and interesting, in my opinion.

[Firecrest]

2 changes would need to be done. Make a glyph that does this: Your Holy Specialization's Mastery is transformed. Your Holy spells leave a dot equal to X% of the damage done. Also, your Denounce spell applies your Censure effect and Seal of Insight no longer increases healing done by 5%. Also lowers healing of Word of Glory by 10%.

Then give them a holy power finisher, which even healers argue is necessary for soloing purposes, etc. Be it another DoT (holy dot class? o.o) or a semi-long cast nuke?
The spec needs two changes: Increase in damage at large cost of healing viability and a way to use its Holy Power. Personally, I would find this spec incredibly fun.

You want a glyph... that changes the entire Mastery of a class? This seems like a good idea to you? Something that you expect Blizzard would be open to implementing? I'm not really sure where to start with that one.

I'll just say that the likelihood of that happening is zero - and leave it at that. I've already clearly laid out why Shockadin won't happen. But I suppose if this is actually a serious idea of yours, I can explain why it won't happen in the manner you're proposing. But I really hope that it's readily apparent already.

[Valedus]

You want a glyph... that changes the entire Mastery of a class? This seems like a good idea to you? Something that you expect Blizzard would be open to implementing? I'm not really sure where to start with that one.

I'll just say that the likelihood of that happening is zero - and leave it at that. I've already clearly laid out why Shockadin won't happen. But I suppose if this is actually a serious idea of yours, I can explain why it won't happen in the manner you're proposing. But I really hope that it's readily apparent already.

The original glyph of demon hunting was going to do the same thing. And what would be overpowered or anything of the sort about a Holy Paladin being able to do damage if they gave up healing? They already know quite a bit of people would love to play Shockadin.
Also: they said they wanted glyphs to be playstyle trade-offs. Fits perfectly with a lot of the other glyphs right now. (Denounce and Holy Shock.)

[Sanguinare]

With no more auras give use a dps/healing stance but dps + survival + healing how can that not be op.

holy dps is so low i would be happy with anything that would let me solo that did not mean i needed a full set of str dps gear.