[MoP] Symbiosis

[Venteus]

it wouldnt be like dark intent though, as long as only the druid was getting a decent dps boost from it, while the other person just gets utility. I dont see why they cant go that route. having different dps impacting cooldowns is more fun than stuns and such

/sigh.

I don't really see your point. For example if recklessness were to stay, how would a balance druid feel in a 10 man raid that didn't have a warrior on their roster? It's exactly what's happening with dark intent right now. A shadow priest without dark intent is practically fodder in a PvE environment. The same goes for a warlock that doesn't have a class that can provide the optimum amount of dark intent stack uptime.

What I would like to see (and seems to be happening) is that these are entirely utility based. So let's say on a certain encounter a given druid is having trouble with moving out of a mechanic in time. That druid can choose from the variety of classes in the raid what type of ability to obtain without hurting the raid's total output (damage or healing).

My point is I want the choice to be on the DRUID. If DPS or HPS becomes involved, then regardless of what anyone says, it'll be some spreadsheet that will determine where symbiosis goes, and not the druid.

[Jibjabb]

But for Dark Intent it was more about the receiver of the buff rather than the buffer (the Warlock). Warlocks really doesnt matter who they put the buff on their uptime is very similar across various classes that put up DoTs, its the receiver that gets the huge dps boost and creates the imbalance.What I am saying is if they built symbiosis around giving only the Druid themselves DPS boosts then it wouldnt be imbalanced for anyone else, it would only affect the druid.

So lets say you want Recklessness then bam you got it, it doesnt matter what other classes want as it wont affect them as great as it affects you. Now lets say your in a 10m and theres no warrior. Well then you give to the (Insert Class Here) and take their DPS/Tank/Heal whatever related CD instead. So unless your raid is just completely retarded makeup with tons of a druids it shouldnt be a problem of having someone to link with. Some classes can still give PvP oriented things (Hammer of Justice/Smoke Bomb) as long as theres a few dmg/tank/healing whatever role you play oriented ones. That would make the spell more interesting and enjoyable. Rather than going into fights without even using the spell because it doesnt matter since the ability you are getting is practically useless anyways.

[Venteus]

However the druid in the raid without a warrior (or in a raid where there aren't enough warriors to symb to each balance druid) is significantly weaker than a druid that has a warrior to symb to. I played a shadow priest throughout the first two tiers of cata competitively raiding. The differences between a shadow priest without DI and a shadow priest with DI is multiple thousands. Even though the scenario there is on the receiving end, it's no different than what you're suggesting for druids. Which I'm personally completely against seeing this spell become.

[Jibjabb]

not if there are other cooldowns besides just warrior. if say a paladin gave Avenging Wrath (% changed to like 10% or whatever is fair) then if you didnt want that a Priest gave Shadowfiend and so on. You are always getting something impactful and useful. It will be practically impossible to have a raid where you cant get anything significant as opposed to having a warlock for each dot user.

[Venteus]

not if there are other cooldowns besides just warrior. if say a paladin gave Avenging Wrath (% changed to like 10% or whatever is fair) then if you didnt want that a Priest gave Shadowfiend and so on. You are always getting something impactful and useful. It will be practically impossible to have a raid where you cant get anything significant as opposed to having a warlock for each dot user.

They wouldn't be equal, though. Like I said in my previous post, regardless of how many DPS options you have, no matter what at the end of the day it'll be a spreadsheet determining who receives symbiosis, not the druid. And a druid who does not have that "#1 spreadsheet" class to give his symbiosis to will always be inferior to the druid that does have that class. This is aside from the point of what you are suggesting really dumbing down the ability - too many DPS options just dulls it.

Again what you're saying isn't wrong, I just personally think it really will ruin the fun behind the ability, at least in PvE

[Sabnock]

They wouldn't be equal, though. Like I said in my previous post, regardless of how many DPS options you have, no matter what at the end of the day it'll be a spreadsheet determining who receives symbiosis, not the druid.

In the previous build you had the illusion of choice as feral (as balance it was s*it like right now), between damage increase/defensive cd/utilities so the point of the ability it was to fill some holes.
Right now what is the meaning of the ability?
What I've quoted is another reason why this ability is a very cheap designed way to fix things and I truly don't understand how one that actually play druid can be happy of this horror.

[Juanita170]

Almost makes me double-take away from mirror images. Almost.

[Sprucelee]

Called it, I had no doubt that all the significant DPS boosting options would be changed. Only took a couple weeks.

[Deleted]

Well isn't level cap now 87, so we should get it guaranteed rather than what we expected expected (rogues for example smokebomb for balance removed, fient added with rage, so evasion must of been balance)

[Deleted]

That's why I've opened a QQ post on the official forums...
I'm sure I'm not the only druid that does not want a lvl 90 talent that relies on other people failure (HotW) we already have rebirth for that.
And I don't want a lvl 87 ability that to be used relies on the presence of other people in my group.

Every other class get a super cool damaging / healing spell as their lvl 90 talent and something usefull or even another damaging spell (shamans) as their lvl 87 ability.
I don't like to get f up every expansion because the druid is supposed to be a jack of all trades and master of none.

[Deleted]

Updated the first post with the new abilities, and swapped some around.

[Deleted]

It's nice to see that we've got some defensive abilities as a Balance druid. (Bone Shield, Evasion)
Warrior's Intervenee will be used only while running back to the boss because a Boomkin that is usually the primary focus in PvP will hardly need to take an extra hit (and will never be used in Arena because i doubt a warrior will play with a boomkin)

• Very high mana cost of Mass dispell that would kill my dps if AoE is involved considering the cost of hurricane.
  Not that i would be able to use it in PvE since almost every fight that requires dispells will punish the whole raid if you dispell the wrong buff (especially aoe dispell) see Warlord Zon'ozz or Spine of Deathwing HM...
• Misdirection: as a DPS i will never waste a gcd to give some more treath to a tank, if he can't keep up with the aggro he will be replaced. If there are mobs that need to be misdirected the hunter from whom i stole the spell will do it
• Purge: this removes a restoration shaman from the possible Arena healer team mates and won't be used in PvE because if something can be purged then the mage will be glad to spell steal it.
• Evasion and Unending Resolve: 50% dodge or 50% less damage taken+interrupt immunity...warlocks will always get it first because it allows me to cast healing spells on me or cotinue dps.
• Mirror Image: in PvE if i don't have to suck something with Unending Resolve i will surely take the only "dps" cooldown left.
• Hammer of Justice: won't use it for PvE, and in PvP i will always find rogues, mages, warlocks. If a stun is needed take mighty bash.

Considering the fact that shamans are giving something useful for the role the druid covers while Resto, Feral and Guardian. I'd exchange purge with Capacitor Totem or any other totem.
From Hunters: Deterrence has been taken by resto, trap by guardian, feign death by ferals....we could take scatter shot or silencing shot or wyvern sting.

[Conatzer]

And, now I hate it. Now Death Coil instead of UF? What the hell is this?

[Sunfyre]

Updated the first post with the new abilities, and swapped some around.

Reports I got from 87 druids in beta were that rogues got growl. Not sure why they would, but yeah. And balance druids got cloak.

[Juvencus]

And, now I hate it. Now Death Coil instead of UF? What the hell is this?

You hate it because they took away the pretty numbers, you actually never had? We knew from the beginning that Symbiosis was meant for utility, so it's not that surprising. They already stated they don't want another D.I

[Deleted]

It seems tranq is finally going to shadow. Now it doesn't seem that powerful, does it?

[Deleted]

Reports I got from 87 druids in beta were that rogues got growl. Not sure why they would, but yeah. And balance druids got cloak.

Whats funny is i was expecting growl to go to a rogue, to give a monk tank another taunt always seemed odd, so Barkskin no doubt goes to Monks if thats the case (a weakish survival cd like other tanks)
If balance get cloak, then reso gets evasion (Redirect with CP swap is clearly feral, and feint with rage is Guardian then)


Conatzer, while the lose of UF is a sad thing, Death Coil will still remain a good Symbiosis effect. Something like Morchok, when you run out of black blood it gives us a ranged attack.

[stormgust]

Reports I got from 87 druids in beta were that rogues got growl. Not sure why they would, but yeah. And balance druids got cloak.

Honestly speaking - given Brewmaster tanking abilities, a second taunt paired with a 330% armor inrease seemed overpowered no matter how you looked at it.

[Sunfyre]

Honestly speaking - given Brewmaster tanking abilities, a second taunt paired with a 330% armor inrease seemed overpowered no matter how you looked at it.

I'm sure a brewmaster wouldn't see it that way. =)

[Elunedra]

Still barksin probely wont goto rogues as it still prevent damaging attacks from causes spell casting delays, a rogue whit healing touch and a mage whit barkskin is more usefull