Warlocks nearly Invincible in MOP (but NOT Overpowered)

[sugarfree]

Invinsible=overpowered. And that's not even getting into the damage they're putting out.

Demo tanks will get their numbers adjusted. As I've heard that the glyph is actually bugged and adding damage instead of turning it into mitigation.

Destro is clunky in pvp. Sure, Incinerate hits hard but our coup de grace is next to impossible to get out in pvp (soul fire being 4 sec cast).

[Vayshan]

Have you seen those despawning/invincible bosses in the new dungeons? Hell, how are we ever going to kill them when MoP comes out!!!???

In other words... it's a beta!!! it's a work in progress, testing, tweaking and stuff...

[Nicola]

Scaling always gets fucked up when a new expansion is coming, some classes will feel extremely overpowered at 85 while other may be underpowered.
Just wait till level 90 and see how things go, and as said before, it's still in beta.

[Purpleisbetter]

Yeah, we should not complain about balance at this very premature stage of MoP.

One thing is sure, i do agree with those saying warlocks seem to have potential, for sure bigger then my current main toon: i really like the new destruction mechanics, the new talents as well.

[Mayhem]

Locks weak in Vanilla? I'd say YOUR "wotlk is showing". You know, THIS image was made in vanilla, and for a reason.

have you actually played one during vanilla or are you just posting some funny picture to prove your point?

[nameuser]

Locks weak in Vanilla? I'd say YOUR "wotlk is showing". You know, THIS image was made in vanilla, and for a reason.

For the first year of the game, warlocks were a joke and rogues 1 shotted everyone. And when warlocks got buffed people started crying cuz they were not a free kill anymore. The pic is much more relevant to TBC, cuz then you actually had a chance to 2v1 people with sl/sl spec.

Go play on a vanilla server and see how terrible locks are there. Then go play a TBC server and see how overrated sl/sl actually is..

[creamie123]

For the first year of the game, warlocks were a joke and rogues 1 shotted everyone. And when warlocks got buffed people started crying cuz they were not a free kill anymore. The pic is much more relevant to TBC, cuz then you actually had a chance to 2v1 people with sl/sl spec.

Go play on a vanilla server and see how terrible locks are there. Then go play a TBC server and see how overrated sl/sl actually is..

This person speaks the truth.

In fact, when my Shadow Priest was my main back then in Vanilla, I actually owned a Warlock as an alt (leveled till 60 at that time). This was how weak they were (before they were buffed), if memory serves:

1) No instant cast escape spell: Death coil wasn't present back then; there was only a fear spell which needed 1.5 secs to cast, along with Seduce, unlike mages with blink and PoM polymorph and frost nova, or priests with psychic scream.*

2) Terrible survivability: Soul Link isn't a baseline ability as it is right now, and before the Warlock patch, it was an activated ability that could not be used pre-emptively against sneak attacks from Rogues. Shadow Ward absorbed only 450 dmg, and did not scale with gear. They had no mana shield, frost shield, power word: shield, Shadowform like mages or priests, and had cloth armor.*

3) Terrible self-healing: Compared to a Shadow Priest, their life drains are not as good as it is right now.*

4) Terrible DoT scaling: 1 Shadow Word: Pain from a Shadow Priest (with full debuffs) back then can sometimes do more damage than their 3 Shadow DoTs combined.*

5) Had to face Fire and Shadow Resistance gear: Most end-game gear back then had both fire and shadow resistance, which weakens Warlocks as a whole in PvP.

6) No Pet Scaling from gear: Which means an epic warrior back then could 2 shot a Warlock's pet at times.*

7) Terrible mana efficiency and no scaling for life-tap: Which means they have to life-tap almost 40% of the time when their mana runs out, which eats their DPS.*

It eventually got better when they were buffed, and until SL/SL at level 70 became a very powerful spec in arenas (3 Siphon Lives on 3 targets + Soul Link and drain life made them very difficult to kill.*

[creamie123]

For the first year of the game, warlocks were a joke and rogues 1 shotted everyone. And when warlocks got buffed people started crying cuz they were not a free kill anymore. The pic is much more relevant to TBC, cuz then you actually had a chance to 2v1 people with sl/sl spec.

Go play on a vanilla server and see how terrible locks are there. Then go play a TBC server and see how overrated sl/sl actually is..

This person speaks the truth.

In fact, when my Shadow Priest was my main back then in Vanilla, I actually owned a Warlock as an alt (leveled till 60 at that time). This was how weak they were (before they were buffed), if memory serves:

1) No instant cast escape spell: Death coil wasn't present back then; there was only a fear spell which needed 1.5 secs to cast, along with Seduce, unlike mages with blink and PoM polymorph and frost nova, or priests with psychic scream.*

2) Terrible survivability: Soul Link isn't a baseline ability as it is right now, and before the Warlock patch, it was an activated ability that could not be used pre-emptively against sneak attacks from Rogues. Shadow Ward absorbed only 450 dmg, and did not scale with gear. They had no mana shield, frost shield, power word: shield, Shadowform like mages or priests, and had cloth armor.*

3) Terrible self-healing: Compared to a Shadow Priest, their life drains are not as good as it is right now.*

4) Terrible DoT scaling: 1 Shadow Word: Pain from a Shadow Priest (with full debuffs) back then can sometimes do more damage than their 3 Shadow DoTs combined.*

5) Had to face Fire and Shadow Resistance gear: Most end-game gear back then had both fire and shadow resistance, which weakens Warlocks as a whole in PvP.

6) No Pet Scaling from gear: Which means an epic warrior back then could 2 shot a Warlock's pet at times.*

7) Terrible mana efficiency and no scaling for life-tap: Which means they have to life-tap almost 40% of the time when their mana runs out, which eats their DPS.*

It eventually got better when they were buffed, and until SL/SL at level 70 became a very powerful spec in arenas (3 Siphon Lives on 3 targets + Soul Link and drain life made them very difficult to kill).*

[Deleted]

For the first year of the game, warlocks were a joke and rogues 1 shotted everyone. And when warlocks got buffed people started crying cuz they were not a free kill anymore. The pic is much more relevant to TBC, cuz then you actually had a chance to 2v1 people with sl/sl spec.

Go play on a vanilla server and see how terrible locks are there. Then go play a TBC server and see how overrated sl/sl actually is..

Played Vanilla, though started 4(5? Not sure.) months after launch and took me half a year till I got any clue at all - I guess when I started encountering locks more than an occasional lowbie while lvling they were after the buffs. I played TBC as well and I have NO idea what do you mean by "overrated". I'd say more like utterly overpowered, 'cause sl/sl was nigh immortal.

[Venteus]

It's true, as much as you may want to justify it - with the current set of talents it is quite possible to have an obscene amount of control and survivability. I wouldn't worry too much, though. I won't say that this will definitely not make it into live, but shortly after if not on live release warlocks will receive hefty nerfs.

[nameuser]

Played Vanilla, though started 4(5? Not sure.) months after launch and took me half a year till I got any clue at all - I guess when I started encountering locks more than an occasional lowbie while lvling they were after the buffs. I played TBC as well and I have NO idea what do you mean by "overrated". I'd say more like utterly overpowered, 'cause sl/sl was nigh immortal.

They weren't overpowered, just imbalanced. A priest could dispel everything cause you don't have UA as sl/sl. Enemy team has a priest? You are useless. And if your pet dies, you're a free kill. And fel dom had 15 mins CD back then. Without your pet, you lose soul link (take 20% more damage, deal 5% less damage), you lose the spell damage buff, and master demonologist (10% more dmg/70 spell resistance/10% less physical dmg). Everyone knew you had to kill the pet first. It's that easy.

[creamie123]

Unless the Voidwalker Shield scales with spell damage, a 10000 HP shield is technically nothing in MoP, when incinerate already hits for 25000.

Sacrificial pact is highly variable though. Considering that your pet will probably have 100000 HP or more at level 85, a 150000HP shield is a really though nut to crack.

[kendro1200]

Wow man, they better make nerf lock because they're nearly invincible in a 1v1 duel. That's just OUTRAGEOUS!

btw, your wotlk is showing, I think you meant to say the 23/38 sl/sl spec from TBC as warlocks were pretty weak in vanilla.

Warlocks were weak on meters in raiding during vanilla (read as MC and parts of BWL, then again you were brought to raids back then as a buffer/debuffer not as dps really, you supplied healthstones to tanks, soulstones for raid wipe recovery, health bonus to the tanks and extra dps for mages, warriors, rogues and hunters, not to mention CC, yay for banish), but a good lock was strong in pvp, you just had to play perfectly, unlike most other classes. You also had to be ready to rely on the seduce and nuke tactics (which usually made people whine hard and discredit your kills, c'mon rogues, like stun locks were any harder to do?), fear spam and have all of your bags full of shards, and also be an engineer. You can omit the engineer part if you were in t2 and going around plaguelands ganking people in green/blues.

[Gohzerlock]

Have you seen those despawning/invincible bosses in the new dungeons? Hell, how are we ever going to kill them when MoP comes out!!!???

In other words... it's a beta!!! it's a work in progress, testing, tweaking and stuff...

Despawning/invincible bosses???????????? Sounds much more epic than anything in cataclysm, I hope the invisible bosses drop the invincible mount.

[Deleted]

have you actually played one during vanilla or are you just posting some funny picture to prove your point?

My first toon, back in vanilla was a warlock..

As for pve, we were never more than mediocre.

But in pvp, rightly specced and geared, we were gods. Going all out on +fire damage gear, and two shotting people with destro, was only nearly as fun as tanking, and killing people 4 vs 1 as soul link demo.

[n0n3]

I prefer more dps over more survivability.

[n1ck301]

You forget locks are trading soul link a base 20/25%(glyphed) of damage reduction for these new defensive cds. We're sort of like a dk/mage hybrid from a speculation standpoint. Heavily based around cycling and juggling through cooldowns and absorption effects to stay alive. Rather than being an innate tank.