1. #3181
    Many people make/made mistakes when they sign/signed contracts without reading them. Remember: Advertisement =/= the product/service. Research a little bit more before buying / paying for something. Isn't it obvious?
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  2. #3182
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Bolded the part which is wrong. Your own choice not to educate yourself does not mean it is someone else's fault.
    If i did "ecuate myself" i'd only have found out i'd been mislead earlier on. The ad and the contract being different wouldn't have been less misleading.

  3. #3183
    Quote Originally Posted by MouseD View Post
    I still like to know how blizzard is going to cram 1 million+ AP holders onto 4 realms.....and if someone says well they will put up more realms later....then why the heck didn't they do that from the start last week then.....
    Hugely busy areas, huge queue times, no chance to quest because everyone is hogging the mobs.. items... chaos, basically.

    And no one can complain because... that's beta. There are no guarantees of gameplay. It was a similar situation when the flood gates opened in previous betas.. the starting areas were so busy most of the time you just decided to log off and wait for the live release.

  4. #3184
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    The majority of people don't read contracts so that is irrelevent, the FAQ was changed and originally the Ad said immediate access (in 4 languages, I might add.)
    I posted a copy of the original ad on the previous page just a few moments ago, it says nothing about immediate access. Also, it might just be me but I remember the FAQ like that, and you know what? You made me do this for like the fifth time...

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...14?page=12#229

    "Access to the beta will be sent out in waves" date is October 25th, the data has always been there (I'm pretty sure it was in the contract in official FAQ also), just people chose to ignore it.

  5. #3185
    not okay with it but im not raging anymore i just lost the will to rage after being fucked in the ass from the gaming companies in the past. Most recently from EAware with ME3 and SWTOR.
    Last edited by Endus; Today at 10:40 PM. Reason: Editing to change questionable phrasing to adorable puppies

    Quote Originally Posted by xBreak View Post
    This post was almost as bad as you.
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    The clueless commentary from the shortsighted peanut gallery is getting to me.
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  6. #3186
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If i did "ecuate myself" i'd only have found out i'd been mislead earlier on.
    Actually you would have found out exactly how the agreement works before signing up for it.

    The ad and the contract being different wouldn't have been less misleading.
    You haven't been mislead at all, so no.

    If people don't read contracts and you think that makes contracts irrelevant, then clearly advertisements are also irrelevant if people don't read them. So your entire argument is pointless.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  7. #3187
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anothdae View Post
    Yes, considering they lost as many subs in the past year as are in the beta... its not irrational to assume that they have some extra servers laying around.
    I swear I'll lose my mind trying to figure out some people's logic... Where do I start with this? Anyways. Figures thrown around in the internet say Blizzard lost around one million subscribers last year. I believe that the chances those one million subscribers were all from the *same* two or three servers (as per your logic since you say Blizzard has 'extra servers laying around'), Blizzard has this little thing called 'Free Server Migration' thingie that gives people free server transfers to people from a handful of chosen high-population servers, to a few low-population servers. So. Even if one, two or even three servers went COMPLETELY empty due to people leaving... Blizzard would re-fill them with the Free Server Migration'.

    Also: let's ASSUME that Blizzard DOES have one or two servers 'laying around'. Have you ever thought those 'extra servers' may be reserved as 'backup servers', in case something goes horribly wrong to a live game server?
    Quote Originally Posted by anothdae View Post
    The followups dont matter, because they happened after the deal was offered and taken. Is it -really- unrational to expect a company that is blizzards size to be able to handle a big beta? They have servers, they have money, they have the expertise to do a big beta, i honestly dont think its irrational for people at the start of the promotion, before anyone (even blizzard) knew that millions would take it, to assume that they would get into the beta when it went live. That wasnt an irrational opinion to have. If i had signed up for beta yesterday, maybe it would have been irrational, But at the start? not so much.
    And this one. Oh boy. Ok. Blizzard have servers. They have a bucket-load of live game servers, a few beta servers, and a couple 'Public Test Realm' servers. Check. Blizzard has money. They get profits, as any successful business organization. Check. Expertise to do a big beta? They did a lot of Beta tests before, with WoW Vanilla, Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, Starcraft 2... so, yeah. Check. Is it irrational for people to assume they all would get immediate Beta access on day 1? Yes.

    Why? First off, there is something called 'too good to be true'. The first time you see a big, shiny promotion, your first instinct is to check all the highlights, all the prizes and benefits you get in such promotion. Problem is, most people stop right there. They don't follow up, reading the rules and restrictions of said contracts, and, much less, the 'Frequently Asked Questions' section to sate all their doubts and so they don't fill themselves with false hope (false hope they inflicted upon themselves) over something that would easily be answered in the 'FAQ' sections.

    Oh, and to all those people saying 'Blizzard have money, they should make more beta servers, whine whine whine'... Please name ONE successful business company that, when creating something for testing (doesn't have to be software. It could be engines, cars, robots, electronics, etc) they immediately mass-produce it, instead of simply making a handful of those items. You know why not? Because it's not cost-effective. And I'm not saying just for the $$$. More beta-servers means more time being spent fine-tuning each and every one of those servers, not to mention it also makes the chance for errors greater than just with a handful of servers.

    PS: Also? 163 pages of nonsense about the same topic we all know it's not going to change, Blizzard won't make new servers, and won't invite everyone in one single massive wave. Don't you think it's time to move on?
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2012-03-29 at 03:54 PM.
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  8. #3188
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Actually you would have found out exactly how the agreement works before signing up for it.
    no, i'd have found out that the advertisement and the agreement were different, and hence, misleading.


    You haven't been mislead at all, so no.

    If people don't read contracts and you think that makes contracts irrelevant), then clearly advertisements are also irrelevant if people don't read them. So your entire argument is pointless.
    Only what people read counts. People read the ad. They didn't read the contract.

    if they had read the contract as well as the ad, they would have discovered they'd been mislead months earlier, but still have been mislead.

  9. #3189
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marooned View Post
    Its not that blizzard did something legally wrong, no one wants to sue them. Then thing is they really could have said the invites of AP holders is gonna be in waves, when they knew many AP holders got it to jump in to beta as soon as it goes live.
    They did, fairly quickly. And it changed nothing about the original offer. Non-issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    So, to recap.

    The ad and the contract are at odds.
    No, they aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    The majority of people don't read contracts so that is irrelevent, the FAQ was changed and originally the Ad said immediate access (in 4 languages, I might add.)
    While I'm not comfortable enough to discuss subtle implications in other languages, this was absolutely 100% not true about the English copy.

    And if the majority of people don't read contracts, that means the majority of people are wrong and making really senseless mistakes they only have themselves to blame for. Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. You're literally arguing that if most people jumped off a bridge, obviously jumping off bridges is what everyone should do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If I watch the video of morhaime again, it still sounds to me like he's offering immediate acccess. I asked my sister, my brother and a few friends and they all agreed with me. Maybe it's just a northern english thing then, but here we are, nontheless.
    Again, a bunch of people being wrong does not make them magically right.

    You and your family are wrong. The language used (at least in the English copy) does not state you will get immediate day 1 access. Not even a little.


  10. #3190
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    no, i'd have found out that the advertisement and the agreement were different, and hence, misleading.
    No. You would have found that they both say basically the same thing, one is just slightly more clear.

    Only what people read counts.
    This is so hilariously wrong that I don't even know where to begin.

    People read the ad. They didn't read the contract.
    Well I'm claiming people read the contract and didn't read the ad, so the ad doesn't count. And I am providing just as much proof as you are.

    if they had read the contract as well as the ad, they would have discovered they'd been mislead months earlier, but still have been mislead.
    Lots of people being wrong doesn't make them right. They were not mislead.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  11. #3191
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If I watch the video of morhaime again, it still sounds to me like he's offering immediate acccess. I asked my sister, my brother and a few friends and they all agreed with me. Maybe it's just a northern english thing then, but here we are, nontheless.
    Ok he said receive beta access when servers go live? Yes? See When refers to a period of time. It does not mean a specific moment in time.
    Last edited by gamingmuscle; 2012-03-29 at 03:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
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  12. #3192
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post



    While I'm not comfortable enough to discuss subtle implications in other languages, this was absolutely 100% not true about the English copy.

    And if the majority of people don't read contracts, that means the majority of people are wrong and making really senseless mistakes they only have themselves to blame for. Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. You're literally arguing that if most people jumped off a bridge, obviously jumping off bridges is what everyone should do.

    No, I am arguing that if the majority of people are jumping off bridges, rather than sit there with a stick up your ass saying "that's not right" you should build a safety net.

    People don't read contracts, the read ad blurb and listen to webcasts. If you want them to understand what they are signing up to, the ad and the contract should be as harmonious as possible, rather than be like this cluster fuck.

  13. #3193
    I'm going to post this, hoping people will read it, it contains a lot of information which prooves that the "Instant Access!!" people, are wrong.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...14?page=12#229 - Posted in October last year.
    Access to beta is sent out in waves. I don't have details as to what wave you may be in but it will likely be when testing moves to the open beta phase.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3170106 - Nowhere on there says immediate access. (Note the date of the post.)
    Below is a "quote" from the ORIGINAL Terms of Use for the Annual Pass.
    Offer void where prohibited or restricted by law. You must register, or have previously registered a Battle.net account with Blizzard Entertainment (“Account”), and have provide Blizzard with a valid credit card which can be used by you to purchase World of Warcraft subscription game time on a recurring basis to participate in this offer. Participants who qualify for and take advantage of this offer will receive one (1) license to download a standard edition version of Diablo® III for free from Blizzard Entertainment, one (1) “Tyrael’s Charger” World of Warcraft in-game mount, and one (1) opportunity to participate in the beta test for the next World of Warcraft expansion, subject to the terms and conditions of this offer. In order to take advantage of this offer, you must: (i) be a resident of the United States of America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or Singapore; (ii) be of the age of majority in your country of residence on or before 10/18/2011; (iii) have registered a World of Warcraft Account with Blizzard Entertainment, or have added a World of Warcraft license to a Battle.net Account which you registered with Blizzard Entertainment on or before 10/18/2011; (iv) not have any chargebacks initiated by you against payments made on the Account or any World of Warcraft account registered with Blizzard; (v) agree to maintain a fully paid up, World of Warcraft license that is in good standing with Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., or its authorized licensees for a twelve (12) month period beginning on the day that you sign up for the offer (the “Twelve Month Commitment”).

    Note that any subscription game time currently existing on your Account as of the day you sign up for the offer will be credited towards the Twelve Month Commitment, and any World of Warcraft subscription game time purchased and redeemed, earned through promotions, or otherwise provided to you by Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., and/or its affiliates, during the Twelve Month Commitment, will be credited towards the Account and the remaining balance of your Twelve Month Commitment. Should you obtain a Diablo III Collector’s Edition version of Diablo III and add the license to the Account, four (4) months of World of Warcraft Game Time will be added to the Account. If your World of Warcraft subscription lapses during the Twelve Month Commitment, or if you fail to make any required payments or timely payments, Blizzard reserves the right to terminate your participation in this offer in addition to any and all other remedies that may be available to Blizzard at law. 25 year game time cards issued to employees of Blizzard Entertainment may not be used to meet the commitment required by this offer.

    Provided that you fulfill the requirements stated herein, Blizzard Entertainment will: (i) Upon the release of World of Warcraft Patch 4.3.0 to the public North American World of Warcraft servers, add a Tyrael’s Charger mount to your Account; (ii) upon the retail launch of Diablo III, add a standard edition Diablo III retail license to your Account, where you may download a standard edition version of Diablo III that corresponds with your country settings; and (iii) flag the Account so that you will automatically receive an invite to the beta test for the next World of Warcraft expansion product.
    Minimum purchase amount necessary to qualify for the DIABLO III OFFER does not include tax. No adjustments will be made on prior sales. Blizzard Entertainment accepts no responsibility for registrations which, due to a technical error or any other reason, are not delivered or which are delayed. LIMIT ONE FREE STANDARD EDITION OF THE DIABLO III PRODUCT AND ONE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE BETA TEST FOR THE NEXT WORLD OF WARCRAFT EXPANSION PER BATTLE.NET ACCOUNT. Eligible participants who have multiple World of Warcraft licenses associated with the participant’s Battle.net Account may participate in the offer for more than one of their World of Warcraft licenses and will receive one (1) Diablo III license that will be added to their Battle.net account, one (1) opportunity to participate in the beta test for the next World of Warcraft expansion, and a World of Warcraft in-game mount for each World of Warcraft license that the participant has associated with their participation in the offer. No substitutions or cash equivalents. Offer subject to change without notice. No delay or omission by Blizzard Entertainment in exercising or enforcing any right or remedy contained in this offer shall operate as a waiver thereof or of any other legal right or remedy available to Blizzard Entertainment. This offer is only valid through the Battle.net online gaming platform, located at www.battle.net.
    I hope you find this informative. (I know, I post this every so often so people don't have to search.)

  14. #3194
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No, I am arguing that if the majority of people are jumping off bridges, rather than sit there with a stick up your ass saying "that's not right" you should build a safety net.
    And you wouldn't think that the people who are stupid enough to jump off bridges have the SLIGHTEST responsibility for their own actions? You are literally arguing that people are too stupid to take care of themselves or make their own choices now.

    People don't read contracts,
    Wrong. You didn't read the contract. Which you are supposed to do. Don't lump everyone in with you, please.

    the read ad blurb and listen to webcasts.
    That's their fault.

    If you want them to understand what they are signing up to, the ad and the contract should be as harmonious as possible, rather than be like this cluster fuck.
    Yes, a slightly ambiguous use of the word "when" is a cluster fuck /rolleyes
    Last edited by Abandon; 2012-03-29 at 03:59 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  15. #3195
    Quote Originally Posted by Marooned View Post
    Its not that blizzard did something legally wrong, no one wants to sue them. Then thing is they really could have said the invites of AP holders is gonna be in waves, when they knew many AP holders got it to jump in to beta as soon as it goes live.
    No point in responding to him. You can't reason with someone that insists on creating huge chains of conjecture, then arguing against the conclusion of that conjecture instead of actually responding to what's in the post.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 03:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They did, fairly quickly. And it changed nothing about the original offer. Non-issue.
    This isn't a non-issue. This is the issue.

  16. #3196
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potaco View Post
    No point in responding to him. You can't reason with someone that insists on creating huge chains of conjecture, then arguing against the conclusion of that conjecture instead of actually responding to what's in the post.
    So....what you've been doing the whole thread?
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  17. #3197
    Well, I didn't sign annual pass for beta, I signed it for D3. I can totally see how people can get impatient, but I don't think it was reasonable to expect them to invite ALL annual pass subscribers in one wave. And personally, I was in one of the early Cataclysm beta waves and I can't say I liked it. I felt no motivation playing it whatsoever, and it didn't seem like they were actually listening to feedback, because most of the bugs I reported in beta are still in game now.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  18. #3198
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No, I am arguing that if the majority of people are jumping off bridges, rather than sit there with a stick up your ass saying "that's not right" you should build a safety net.

    People don't read contracts, the read ad blurb and listen to webcasts. If you want them to understand what they are signing up to, the ad and the contract should be as harmonious as possible, rather than be like this cluster fuck.
    Maybe people instead should take responsibility for their own mistakes? If I don't read the details, I have no right to complain when it turns out not to be what I wanted. Now if I read the details, and it turns out to not be what I was told. That is completely different.

    Bottom line is laziness isn't a valid argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Smiteyou - lol holy dps

  19. #3199
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    Maybe people instead should take responsibility for their own mistakes? If I don't read the details, I have no right to complain when it turns out not to be what I wanted. Now if I read the details, and it turns out to not be what I was told. That is completely different.

    Bottom line is laziness isn't a valid argument.
    We have gotten to the point where people are actually arguing that if you decide to walk up to a bridge and throw yourself off of it, then you have absolutely no responsibility for your own action, and all of the blame rests on the people who made the bridge.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  20. #3200
    The cost of all 400+ wow servers is less than 200k/year. Blizz made millions of $ but there is no money for more than 4 beta servers? They are just greedy. If they can't afford 40 beta servers then they should not sell annual passes with beta-access attached to them.
    Atoms are liars, they make up everything!

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