Will another Horde race be able to play as a Paladin?

[Thyranne]

technically undead can be paladins, or at least use the holy light as a weapon and to heal, but it is very rare for two reasons:
1) it is usually used by those with a great sense of justice and/or protecting others, which is certainly not the usual forsaken personality
2) holy light causes undeads - and this includes all death knights - extreme physical pain, even if it's actually healing them. so a, say, tauren dk tank would have to endure a lot of pain each time he's beeing healed by priests or paladins. as a forsaken holy priest priest or paladin, this works double, as channeling the light would already hurt them, even if they didn't target it at themselves.

But aren't paladins all about being a martyr?

[MrWolly]

The only Race on the horde that I see, that could become a Paladin would be trolls, but not the normal ones; they can become Voodoo priests(Lorewise) so I guess Voodoo paladins make sense as well...

People who practice voodoo tend to eat people. Paladins don't eat people.

[DeathKnight Guy]

What race would become the Paladin??? Orc... Thats beyond lore Troll... Your just messing now Undead... the class has spells which is meant to work AGAINST undead units, of course not. Really there is nothing to balance the tides. And does it really affect the game that much? Or even the playerbase?

[iadamson]

I'm glad so many people have something to say about this.
I think the conciseness is clear.

[Primaliron]

People who practice voodoo tend to eat people. Paladins don't eat people.

Voodoo involves animal sacrifice, not human.

[Acidd06]

Undead plz!

[Venziir]

Voodoo involves animal sacrifice, not human.

Depends really, the cannibal tribes around the Carribeans did practise something that was quite close to both voodoo and hoodoo. Also the concept of "voodoo zombies" is worse than sacrificing.

[Primaliron]

Depends really, the cannibal tribes around the Carribeans did practise something that was quite close to both voodoo and hoodoo. Also the concept of "voodoo zombies" is worse than sacrificing.

To avoid going into a religious discussion I will simply say you should learn more about Voodoo. Your knowledge of it seems to be lumping a lot of things that are not it together with it simply because they come from the same region and are often confused in pop culture.

[Spellweaver]

Pandaren are a neutral race that can become Shamans this means that the Alliance effectively receive another Shaman class.

Draenei
Dwarf
Pandaren

can all be Shaman

but only Blood Elves and Tauren can be Paladins.

Will Horde get another Paladin or will we have to wait until the next expansion to balance this out?

What are your thoughts, a new race in a future expansion... or a current race? If so what one would be most suitable.

If you actually want to balance things out, the Alliance should get another race/class combination, not the Horde.
Including the Pandaren, the Horde has 52 race/class combinations and the Alliance has 51 race/class combinations.

[Sy]

Zieke of the four horsemen in nax can do it

true. and i remember some blue from q&a saying it's possible (and that there are a few examples in lore), but that the selfless personality and immense mental discipline make it very, very rare.

and Sy i luff your anime forum :3

it's not "my anime forum", and even 'my' anime thread isn't really used for what i intended in the op, but pretty much just free space for anime chat.
but still, glad you like it! xD

This is actually not true to some degree. Being healed by the light in any case does not hurt. It also does not hurt them to wield it. This is simply because the forsaken are treated as a different kind of undead creature given their consciousness. I'm talking from a game design angle here, the distinction was made back when the priests shackle undead ability was altered to not effect the forsaken, and also any undead weaknesses were removed from them. This is probably backed up lore wise I expect. Also Arthas is a perfect example of a paladin using the light to his own ends, as are the very foundations of the Blood Knights who stole the light directly. Undead Paladins are very possible.

1) i am talking purely about lore here, not about gameplay mechanics

2) no, there is absolutely no reason or mentioning in lore for the forsaken to appear as "humanoids" instead of as "undead" in the game, it is plain simply purely a gameplay necessity and forsaken are still very much undead in the tradtional sense.

3) yes, undeads beeing healed by or channeling the holy light does hurt them immensely. that was confirmed in blizzard q&a. (no i don't have a source-link to everything i know about wow lore, you will just have to trust me that i did not make this up for whatever reason ;] )

4) i did - very intentionally - say "it is usually used by". besides, both Arthas and the blood elves' blood knights actually fit my description very well.
Arthas first and foremost motivation for pretty much everything he did, up to the point where he picked up the cursed frostmourn, was to protect his people and to bring justice to those he thought responsible for what had happened to them.
the blood knights' most important motivation is, too, to protect and fight for their people, and to bring their enemies to justice (much like it has been Kael'thas Sunstrider's personal motivation for at least most of the time).
i did not say they have to be noble. i did not say have to be honest. but they usually (!) do have a great sense for justice and protecting their own, or at least what they themselves view as that.

5) nowhere did i say undead paladins aren't possible
in fact, i specifically said they can, just that it was very rare and uncommon in lore.

Blue posted about that saying something along the lines of if they channeled the amount of holy light through their body that was required to be a paladin they'd turn to dust (I cannot remember the exact wording! but it was close.) And that being healed by a paladin or priest caused undead (DK included) extreme pain. His wording on Sir Zeliek was that "He really hates himself" If I can find the post I'll link it. xD

hmm, i don't remember the part about turning to dust when channeling the amount needed to be a paladin. i might very well have forgotten that though, shame :/
but otherwise, yeah, that was the post i refering to, too^^

Arthas lost his ability to wield the light the moment he was fully lost to frostmourne

i think he did, yeah.
on the other hand, there are actual skeletal paladins in icecrown, resurrected argent crusaders at their quest-front. they use captain-america-shield and some sort of corrupted holy light heal to, well, heal themselves. i guess those are in opposition to the lore then though, if what you said above is right?

Just more proof of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at blizz.

pretty much my thought, yeah -.-^^

But aren't paladins all about being a martyr?

they can be, they don't need to be.
and even if, there is still the problem that forsaken definitely aren't commonly "all about being a martyr"

[Deleted]

On topic: Orc Paladins, the Tauren could EASILY share their knowledge and beliefs about the whole Sunwalker ideal. That, and the orcs used to prey at Oshu'gun in Nagrand which allowed them to commune with their ancestors - guess what? The power of Oshu'gun was a fainted Naaru.

The Tauren paladins are Druids from beliefs. Like if the Orcs give 2 cents about nature, while chopping trees. They aren't interested in learning the knowledge or beliefs of Druids.

[godofslack]

Why even have limitations at this point? Just make everyone everything.

[Primaliron]

The Tauren paladins are Druids from beliefs. Like if the Orcs give 2 cents about nature, while chopping trees. They aren't interested in learning the knowledge or beliefs of Druids.

Not all members of a race share the same beliefs. Human Warlocks and Paladins probably have some choice words for each other at times. Liking nature doesn't mean you choose a tree over your own defense either. The Tauren cut down trees to make a lot of their fortifications and housing. The Orcs do so for the same reason, not because they just love cutting down trees.

[NotFunny008]

How do they not make sense? They worship the Moon and the Sun. The Sun represents the Light. Where is the confusion? How is Sun=Light not sensible? Is it because they aren't stereotypical "Knights in Shining Armor"?

Also if Gnomes get Paladin then they also need Hunter so I can tame critters and druids so I can tank as a Dun Morogh Cub...

I support Gnomes as hunters but they must be their own pet. Most pets would eat the gnome anyway so they can only act as their own pet.

[Deleted]

The Orcs do so for the same reason, not because they just love cutting down trees.

Tell that to Ashenvale, where the Orcs are cutting down as much trees as they can simply to spite the Night Elves.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Let's look at this logically.

Orc - Still under Garrosh's insane fist, so nope.
Troll - Do not worship the light in any form, just the Loa.
Undead - Have turned their backs on the light and worship the shadow.
Goblin - Greed is a vice.

Nope.

[Lupinemancer]

Hopefully not, what we need is another Paladin Alliance Race.
Right now the score is:
Alliance:
Paladin = 3. Draenei, Humans, Dwarves.
Shamans = 2. Draenei, Dwarves.

Hordes:
Paladins = 2. Blood Elves, Taurens.
Shamans = 4. Orcs, Trolls, Taurens, Gonlins.

Right now the score is uneven, the Alliance need 1 more Paladin Race.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Hopefully not, what we need is another Paladin Alliance Race.
Right now the score is:
Alliance:
Paladin = 3. Draenei, Humans, Dwarves.
Shamans = 3. Draenei, Dwarves, Pandaren.

Hordes:
Paladins = 2. Blood Elves, Taurens.
Shamans = 5. Orcs, Trolls, Taurens, Goblins, Pandaren.

Right now the score is uneven, the Alliance need 1 more Paladin Race.

Adjusted your stats for post-MoP.
Actually, assuming Blizzard gives a bum about this "pattern" (which I'm 99% sure they don't, Vanilla was a long time ago), Ally needs 2 Paladins and Horde needs 1 paladin.

So for Ally: Worgen, Night Elf
Horde: Troll (most likely in terms of the current lore situation)

[Venziir]

The Tauren paladins are Druids from beliefs. Like if the Orcs give 2 cents about nature, while chopping trees. They aren't interested in learning the knowledge or beliefs of Druids.

... Despite being one of the first races to develop shamanism, the art of comuning with the spirits, elements and nature itself... It's not like they actually NEED lumber right? It's not like half of Thunder Bluff (capitol of Horde druid'ism) is made of WOOD....

[Falrinn]

You know, the bottom line is that balancing the number of race/class combos available to each faction does not matter now, nor has it ever mattered in the past.

Back in Vanilla we had:

Warriors: 4 Horde, 4 Alliance
Mages: 2 Horde, 2 Alliance
Hunter: 3 Horde, 2 Alliance
Paladin: 0 Horde, 2 Alliance
Shaman: 3 Horde, 0 Alliance
Priest: 2 Horde, 3 Alliance
Rogue: 3 Horde, 4 Alliance
Warlock: 2 Horde, 2 Alliance
Druid: 1 Horde, 1 Alliance

Note that out of the 9 classes available when the game launched, only 4 of them had balanced race/class options and Horde Shaman and Alliance Paladins were not balanced with each other.


Now fastforward to BC:

Warriors: 4 Horde, 5 Alliance
Mages: 3 Horde, 3 Alliance
Hunter: 4 Horde, 3 Alliance
Paladin: 1 Horde, 3 Alliance
Shaman: 3 Horde, 1 Alliance
Priest: 3 Horde, 4 Alliance
Rogue: 4 Horde, 4 Alliance
Warlock: 3 Horde, 2 Alliance
Druid: 1 Horde, 1 Alliance

In BC the balance actually got worse. While the lack of Draenei rogues corrected that particular imbalance, new imbalances appeared in both the Warrior and Warlock class, meaning now only 3 classes were balanced. It's true that while the number of Horde Shaman and Alliance Paladins (and vise verse) was balanced, the fact is they were no longer unique to the Alliance and Horde and could no longer be directly compared like they were in vanilla.

WotLK didn't really change anything since all races got DK's, so I'll go directly to Cataclysm.

Warriors: 6 Horde, 6 Alliance
Mages: 5 Horde, 6 Alliance
Hunter: 6 Horde, 5 Alliance
Paladin: 2 Horde, 3 Alliance
Shaman: 4 Horde, 2 Alliance
Priest: 5 Horde, 6 Alliance
Rogue: 5 Horde, 5 Alliance
Warlock: 5 Horde, 4 Alliance
Druid: 2 Horde, 2 Alliance
Death Knights: 6 Horde, 6 Alliance

So now the number of balanced classes is now...4. And since 1 of those is due to the addition of the DK in WotLK, the vanilla classes are just as imbalanced as ever and for every one that was resolved a new one was created.


So what's basically my point in all of this? My point is that Blizzard chooses race/class combos based on a combination of story and style, not to get all the numbers to perfectly line up. Yeah maybe a couple of combos (particularly Tauren Paladins) can be attributed mainly to giving more options for one faction or the other, but again only if a somewhat believable story can be created. Gnomes for example only got a single new combo because their story and style only potentially meshed with one possible class, Priests, despite the reality that Gnomes would continue to have the fewest class options and the entire Alliance was short (no pun intended) 1 race/class combo.