Ranged vs melee preference, solo-likeabilty?

[Deleted]

Excuse my funky topic title. I'm having trouble deciding what class to play, if I were to choose a melee class it would be a Barbarian and if I would go for a ranged class it would either be a wizard or a demon hunter. So far I'm not sure what playstyle I like most. I like how being a ranged class keeps you a bit more busy staying away from the enemies, but it's also good to just keep charging into the enemy like you're rambo. I've been able to play the game a little, little bit because I don't have Beta acces so I have to make do with the buggy private servers/emulators and I've found that playing ranged is a bit more relaxed because you won't have to be running after enemies that much. However come higher levels do you think playing ranged will become just as ''hairy'' because there will be more ranged enemies?

I plan to do some co-opping but also alot of solo playing, my worry is that I'll be shooting myself in the foot playing a melee class come Hell/Inferno. Do you think Barbarians and Monks will be able to play through the higher difficulties with the same ''ease'' as ranged classes or with alot more hardship? What type have you chosen to play and why (ranged vs melee)?

[Caiada]

I believe a defensive barbarian/monk will probably match ranged in survivability, just not killing speed. I don't think you should have too much of a problem soloing the majority of the game with either melee, so really, go with whichever you prefer. There's ways to make it all work; some just might require to dying to figure out :P

[Deleted]

I want to solo on a barbarian but similarly i'm pretty worried that melee is going to be a lot more difficult on inferno..... but then perhaps that difficulty will make it more fun - if it was all easy it'd be pretty boring I guess! It's hard to know. To me, it does feel like ranged have a definite advantage right now but I'll be levelling both and seeing how it works out.

[Deleted]

I agree. It probably will will end up being a melee class for me, might try a monk simply because the standard attack sound is such a un-interesting headache-evoking clang sound. And probably not ranged because I don't want to feel like all I'm doing is running away to avoid getting hit/dying which I think you'll be doing more than enough already with a melee class.

[Dhurn]

Barb/Monk recently got a 30% damage reduction buff, which indicates they probably were getting roflstomped in Hell/Inferno but it is probably much more reasonable now especially against spells. I'd say they're expecting you to take at least 1 or 2 defensive passives and/or abilities to survive as Melee though, much like they'd expect a DH to take something like Vault or Evasive Fire.

Personally I'm going for Barb, because like you I prefer the style of expecting to get hit and being able to handle it, rather than doing everything in your power to avoid being hit in the first place. Also, the combination of Diablo 2 Barbs and my 85 warrior has made me a Leap addict, I don't think I can play a character without it anymore.

[Ninjam0ves]

I don't think ranged has an advantage over melee on the later difficulties. I would imagine that Blizzard had thought this through, and balanced it when they played it through. And as Dhurn says in the reply above - melee recently got a passive 30% damage reduction from all sources, which indicates that melee had a hard time later on - but also that it probably evens it out.

I can understand why you would think this though, but keep in mind that on the later difficulties the monsters you are fighting has a lot of abilities and affixes, so there will probably be some hooks and some nasty spells from the monsters which a ranged class is much more likely to die from than a Barbarian or avoidance Monk. There is no way to tell though, keep in mind this is all speculations, but I'm looking forward to test both the melee and the ranged classes.

[Restos3]

Ranged has always been more "easy" to get out of danger on any game I might think of. Easier to pull enemies too.

[Deleted]

I really want to play Barbarian but even just looking at some of the latest beta footage I see Barbarians dying/almost dying from a not too big but a bit chaotic pack of mobs.. on normal difficulty. This shouldn't be the case so I still can't decide AT ALL. Does anyone think you can ever be ''safe'' with a Barbarian if you just go all out in Tank gear/spec? Killing mobs would take long but can you reach that high of a defensive stats level (excuse my terminology, I don't know much about exact stats yet) that you don't have to constantly be watching your health and running away in wich case it would just be easier to play a ranged class if you're running anyway? - not talking about playing on Inferno, but normal-hell.

[Calamari]

I really want to play Barbarian but even just looking at some of the latest beta footage I see Barbarians dying/almost dying from a not too big but a bit chaotic pack of mobs.. on normal difficulty. This shouldn't be the case so I still can't decide AT ALL.

Well Barbs we're pretty awfully squishy in the early game of Diablo 2 as well.. I had the right build and ok gear but soloing even normal difficulty without twinked (traded) gear was like pulling teeth at times, if D3 Barb is anything like that then it might be better going for another starting class. But then again they offer a whole lot more defensive options for the D3 tank Barb so I can't really answer the question. The Demon hunter strikes me as a very strong solo choice though, lots of CC&escape and ranged oomph.

[Dhurn]

Not sure what beta footage you've been seeing but my experience with the Barb is they are very resilient even at low levels and dual wielding. As long as you have a bit of life leech % or life from hit/kill, and utilize stuns like Ground Stomp or knock back with Seismic Slam when things get hairy, I've never been anywhere close to dying or needing a potion. If you add in a shield + defensive passives, aoe leech skills like Revenge or Glyphed Rend, I can't see dying ever in normal mode unless you like afk/dc in the middle of a pack or something.

[Deleted]

Well, I for one would like to play (and will play) a melee, barbarian to be precise. Not that I'm not going to be playing all classes, but here's how I see the barbarian I've envisioned...

I haven't watched much beta videos lately, and don't really know the mechanics as well as one could, but I was fiddling around with the talent calculator and I came up with something like this.

Main attack: Frenzy (11) with Triumph (22)
- generate 3 fury per attack, spammable
- killing an enemy heals for 8% max life over 6 sec

Movement/secondary: Furious Charge (21) with Dreadnought (56)
- generate 15 fury per charge, 10 second cooldown
- every target hit with charge heals for 8% max life

Reactive/secondary: Revenge (13) with Vengeance Is Mine (19)
- 15% chance to activate when hit
- deal damage to every target around you
- every target hit heals for 10% max life

Buff: War Cry (28) with Invigorate (41)
- 60 second buff (120 with passive)
- +10% max life for the duration of the buff
- heals for 310 life per second for the duration of the buff

Situational: Ignore Pain (22) with Ignorance Is Bliss (36)
- 30 second cooldown
- damage reduced by 65% for 5 seconds
- 20% life steal for the duration

Long cooldown: Wrath of the Berserker (30) with Thrive on Chaos (60)
- 120 second cooldown
- 15 second duration
- +1 second duration from 25 fury generated

Passive: Bloodthirst (24)
- 3% life steal

Passive: Inspiring Presence (20)
- activates when War Cry is cast
- heals for 1% max life per second for the duration of the buff

Passive: Relentless (40)
- while below 20% life damage taken reduced by half and no fury costs

Now honestly I have no idea how this build would work, and obviously it wouldn't be finished until level 60.

I'm thinking you'd buff yourself first with War Cry, then Charge in a group of mobs, kill the mobs one at a time with Frenzy, with an AoE from Revenge every now and then. Once everything would be dead, you'd Charge another group. If at any point you'd start to get really hurt, Relentless would come into effect and halve your damage taken. If that wouldn't save you, you'd pop Ignore Pain. When you'd need a bit more beef in your jerky, you'd pop Wrath.

Pretty much how I'd see a Frenzy barbarian working and somewhat similar to D2, just switch run speed with a charge. Obviously since it's still a beta, things are going to change, and this build of mine has gone through pretty serious nerfs to the heals already (10% to 3% on Bloodthirst, etc).

[Deleted]

Barb/Monk recently got a 30% damage reduction buff

where did you get that info? source pls

edt.
Nvm, found it here http://www.diablofans.com/news/1111-...4-patch-notes/

[mtawney1313]

I have access to the beta, and here's some of my input about what you've been thinking about.

Demon hunters seem to be the *true* ranged class right now. The stronger offensive moves are ranged, and the defensive moves involve evasive moves.

Wizards on the other hand seem to be all about brute force whether at a distance or when enemies engage up close. In fact, you can make a build that's focued more on melee (or very close range) attacks and powerful defensive cooldowns. Offensive attacks are based on high burst, defense is about raw damage reduction or invulnerability. The fun part of playing a wizard is using diamond skin and blowing up packs of mobs

Monks feel somewhat like a ranged class because they are so maneuverable. But instead of shooting a weapon or throwing a ball of arcane magic, you throw yourself Monks are kind of a beat them down, evade, return, beat down, evade, return kind of class.

Warriors are what you would expect them to be. Get in their face and beat some face. I actually kind of fun.

To be honest I don't really forsee any class having one advantage over the other. Maybe in certain situations but overall, you're probably going to want to play all the classes to at least a certain level before you make up your mind.

---------- Post added 2012-03-30 at 12:59 PM ----------

Well Barbs we're pretty awfully squishy in the early game of Diablo 2 as well.. I had the right build and ok gear but soloing even normal difficulty without twinked (traded) gear was like pulling teeth at times, if D3 Barb is anything like that then it might be better going for another starting class. But then again they offer a whole lot more defensive options for the D3 tank Barb so I can't really answer the question. The Demon hunter strikes me as a very strong solo choice though, lots of CC&escape and ranged oomph.

The demon hunter actually feels the weakest right now. It might be a tuning issue though. It's just that once the mobs get close to you it takes a lot of effort to get away before you can do damage again, while wizards have strong cooldowns that you can pop and you just burn through the mobs.

[Deleted]

The demon hunter actually feels the weakest right now. It might be a tuning issue though. It's just that once the mobs get close to you it takes a lot of effort to get away before you can do damage again, while wizards have strong cooldowns that you can pop and you just burn through the mobs.

Damn you! Just when I made up my mind I was going to play a Demon Hunter you say that! Does it feel like a real issue or just a bit more incentive to not get hit?

[Deleted]

The demon hunter actually feels the weakest right now.

Are all the abilities and runes usable right now in the beta? I'm asking this, because as far as I'm aware, the maximum level you can attain in the beta is something like 13(?), thus you wouldn't have the whole arsenal to use. Even though they are all usable, you have to remember that you are still only level 13, and things aren't necessarily going to advance in a linear way once you get to higher levels.

All in all I wouldn't base any complaints of class balance on level 13 characters in the beta. You'll be level 20, 30, 40 before you even notice any time has passed, and the true test of balance is at 60 anyway.

[Dhurn]

The demon hunter actually feels the weakest right now. It might be a tuning issue though. It's just that once the mobs get close to you it takes a lot of effort to get away before you can do damage again, while wizards have strong cooldowns that you can pop and you just burn through the mobs.

Can't say I agree with ya there. If something manages to get into melee, you just Caltrops -> Vault backwards and it should die before it has any chance of getting close again. You can also set up 2-3 Caltrops in a line before you engage and the monsters will die long before they get anywhere near you. Add in Evasive Fire at 14 and you have tons of options for avoiding/escaping melee attackers.

[mtawney1313]

Are all the abilities and runes usable right now in the beta? I'm asking this, because as far as I'm aware, the maximum level you can attain in the beta is something like 13(?), thus you wouldn't have the whole arsenal to use. Even though they are all usable, you have to remember that you are still only level 13, and things aren't necessarily going to advance in a linear way once you get to higher levels.

All in all I wouldn't base any complaints of class balance on level 13 characters in the beta. You'll be level 20, 30, 40 before you even notice any time has passed, and the true test of balance is at 60 anyway.

It's an educated guess based on playing the beta and over a decade of experience playing both the first and second diablos. While you don't get the entire arsenal at a low level, you certainly get a good feel for how each class plays. Let me make an example.

The witch doctor's spitting ability feels more effective than the demon hunter's bola shot, and I don't think that's intended at all. Yes the bola shot has some area of effect damage to it, but it also has a delay on it before it triggers. The bola shot is strongest on large packs of smaller mobs, but even then, it just doesn't deliver compared to...say...a wizard's arcane ball, which tears through even packs of larger mobs. And while the witch doctor's spit is only single target, he still has his dogs ripping everything apart in the process.

You can tell theyre intent is to lower the damage of the demon hunter to make up for their maneuverability, but for some reason they didn't do that with the monk., which has high maneuverability AND strong offensive ability.

It could also just be a tuning issue. It would be nice if they actually made the bola shot feel powerful like I think it should. It really sucks having to shoot two or three of them just to kill one zombie :/

---------- Post added 2012-03-31 at 01:34 AM ----------

Damn you! Just when I made up my mind I was going to play a Demon Hunter you say that! Does it feel like a real issue or just a bit more incentive to not get hit?

I would say more incentive not to get hit. The game is still definitely playable as a demon hunter right now, and I actually find the class to be extremely fun. I just think they're a bit behind on the damage, especially bola shot. What I was trying to say earlier is out of the ranged classes it kind of works like this so far:

Demon hunter: Strongest firing at a distance when nothing is in the way, defense is based on active evasiveness with snares. Weak when surrounded in tight corners or facing one on one against bosses that move quickly.

Wizard: Strongest at mid-range / closeup. Damage severely diminishes at a distance (or it takes forever for the damage to actually deliver). defense is based on raw damage reduction and snares with high burst damage. Weakest against large packs of melee mobs with ranged in the back (the ranged will eat you away and you have very little you can do to get to them like a demon hunter can)

Witch Doctor: Haven't played too much, but this character is more focused on staying back and letting your minions do most of the work. Can't really say much about the class yet.

---------- Post added 2012-03-31 at 01:43 AM ----------

Can't say I agree with ya there. If something manages to get into melee, you just Caltrops -> Vault backwards and it should die before it has any chance of getting close again. You can also set up 2-3 Caltrops in a line before you engage and the monsters will die long before they get anywhere near you. Add in Evasive Fire at 14 and you have tons of options for avoiding/escaping melee attackers.

Compared to a wizard who can just pop diamond armor and nuke everything to hell, yes, it takes a lot of effort for a demon hunter to handle a close pack.

This guy is talking about solo-likeability as he called it. Compared to a wizard, demon hunters are just far weaker right now. This isn't news to anyone who plays the beta and has tried both classes.

[Deleted]

It's an educated guess based on playing the beta and over a decade of experience playing both the first and second diablos. While you don't get the entire arsenal at a low level, you certainly get a good feel for how each class plays. Let me make an example.

You certainly don't get a good feel for each class plays at level 13.

Also, as far as credentials go, I've played Diablo (and Diablo 2) from day one to this day.

Fact is, you seriously do NOT get "a good feel for how each class plays" at level 13.

[mtawney1313]

You certainly don't get a good feel for each class plays at level 13.

Also, as far as credentials go, I've played Diablo (and Diablo 2) from day one to this day.

Fact is, you seriously do NOT get "a good feel for how each class plays" at level 13.

Yes you do. Think of Wow's new talents system.

You don't even need to play to see what I'm talking about either. Read up on the abilities.

[DublinCore]

Guys isn't the barb supposed to be good for solo's? I mean they have higher defense right?