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  1. #841
    Wild Imps on a 1min cooldown was the breathing life of Meta in PvP. This change sucks in that aspect.

    What does the cooldown means? I'm too tired to process this.

  2. #842
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    It means it is now a 2-minute cooldown ability, instead of a 1-minute cooldown ability.
    But at least you no longer have to spend 150 Fury to cast it so you can now use that 150 Fury to cast ~3.75 Touches of Chaos, which is still useful in PvP.

  3. #843
    It was a good cooldown to use to generate DF's or be competent in Caster form. Now with this change, it's going to be harder for locks and will have to depend on getting off Shadowbolts when it's on CD. But I guess that 150 DF to spare is good. We'll see.

    I still hate this change tbh.

  4. #844
    I dont understand why not make destro start with 2 embers and demo with 500 Demonic Fury, still an initial rampup but not crippling as right now in both PvP and PvE.

  5. #845
    But if glyph of wild imps cd still benefits from haste won't it be problematic lining it up with meta and dark soul? (oh and remember t14 setbonus) Or do you just take the 4 sec hit for the passive imp in between cd and 2 min mark?
    Last edited by Micke; 2012-07-27 at 11:49 PM.

  6. #846
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micke View Post
    But if glyph of wild imps cd still benefits from haste won't it be problematic lining it up with meta and dark soul? Or do you just take the 4 sec hit for the passive imp in between cd and 2 min mark?
    Yes!
    56789

  7. #847
    Deleted
    The first meta will sucks. But, at least the 2 min mark won't... guess the glyph is still mandatory so it's still a design failure because without WI is useless, not exciting, invisible with or without, there is no great difference... MWC design has won.

    End of the story. But who cares now...

    Nobody will play Destro, and Demo is pretty much the same no brain crap, Meta and the renamed abilities won't change this fact... that's just girlish make up. Aff is as boring as ever, since 3.0 death, and this lonely pvp spec will be nerfed again and again...

    This MoP crap is just a punishment. Twilight, still a better love story than Locks and devs.

    This class won't pass the 7 % in this state, like the FB auctions syndrome...
    Last edited by mmoca1e94eb7cd; 2012-07-28 at 12:29 AM.

  8. #848
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    What is your problem?

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    What is your problem?
    Paraclef has a registered history of lack of touch with reality and the English language, you're best to just ignore any post and just move along. The rest of us who actually play and enjoy this class will continue to provide useful and non-biased feed back and his ilk will fall away as soon as you can't make a pre-made of any class you wish.
    Gamer, Nerd, Physicist. What more could you want?! Well fine, I have a youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/shaidyadvice and a stream: www.twitch.tv/shaidyadvice I'm currently spending my free time with the fine fellows and ladies over at Death and Taxes.

  10. #850
    DA got even more nerfed lol

    no more HOG, it transform into chaoswave and ground targetable, cost 120 demonic fury

    Demonic slash now has 3 charges instead of 4 with a 4.5s cooldown

    I think the mastery added reduction got nerfed too

    It still pisses off melee =D since it gets the bonus armor from nether plating and the stun,snare reduction

    Also new cool spell effect for soulfire, shadowflame glyph is unchanged still 70%
    Last edited by darthades; 2012-07-28 at 04:06 PM.

  11. #851
    Proposed rotation/priority My current (this changes everytime I can think of an improvement) one would be to use cooldowns as soon as possible and enter/leave meta based around HoG uptime when up to 500f. I'm not sure that this is the absolute best priority for dps for this patch, but since the spec is broken in some ways I haven't worked on it too hard. Once it seems more finalized I will completely optimize it.

    Use Felguard
    Dark Soul: Knowledge
    Grimoire: Imp, if DS:K is up or if it will take you 1m or more to get into Meta and use other CDs.
    Doomguard, if DS:K is up
    Imp Swarm, if DS:K is up
    Hand of Gul'dan, drop Meta for this. (Don't use Chaos Wave (Meta's version of HoG) unless you need burst.
    Corruption
    Metamorphosis, if over ~500 fury, can stay in Meta down to 0f if you will be ending the fight by that point.
    Doom, if the fight will last long enough for two ticks.
    Caster form, if under ~40 fury
    Soul Fire, if Molten Core is up.
    Demonic Slash
    Shadowbolt
    Life Tap, if under 20% mana.
    Is this Demo rotation from the OP still relevant? And with the Everlasting Glyph change, is it still a good choice for Demo?

  12. #852
    So far on the PTR, Demo is the only rotation/priorities I have a hard time feeling like I'm getting "right" ... all the stance dancing feels very awkward
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    This just in:

    Corruption: Now ticks every 2 seconds over 18 seconds up from every 3 seconds, now but generates 4 fury per tick, down from 6 (ticks faster but generates less fury per tick).

    Pandemic: When refreshing your periodic damage effects, duration remaining on the previous effect is added to the new one, up to a maximum of 50% the base duration. (Everlasting Affliction's old effect is now base line)

    Kil'jaeden's Cunning Passive: the snare effect is now 10%, stacking up to 2 times, once per spell cast. (seems to imply the debuff has a duration but the duration is not listed so, , , )

    Hellfire: now Generates 3 Demonic Fury per target. (up from 2)

    Metamorphosis: base damage increase is 24.00%. (this is just a tooltip update)

    Wild Imps: Soul Fire also now summons a Wild Imp (In addition to Shadow Bolt and Demonic Slash).

    Pursuit: now instantly causes 150% weapon damage (up from 100% I think, not that pursuit ever accounted for much).

    Glyph of Everlasting Affliction: Increases the duration of Corruption and Doom by 50%, and reduces their damage by 20%. (to make life easier for non-pros, like Glyph of Inquisition for Ret Pallies)

    Glyph of Demon Training:Increases your Felguard's total health by 20%. (nice!, better sacrificial pact shields)

    Glyph of Imp Swarm: now has a 2 minute cooldown (up from 1min), no longer costs fury (down from 150), also increases Wild Imp's passive cooldown by 4 sec. (should sync up with Dark Soul pretty well now, but you lose one potential Imp per 120 seconds).

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 02:56 PM ----------




    passively you would generate 6 imps per 2 minutes
    with this glyph you generate 5 imps per 2 minutes but they align with dark soul.

    In a burst encounter you would stack Grimoire of Service + Dark Soul *unglyphed* + Glyph of Imp Swarm
    In a long steady encounter you would stack Grimoire of Supremacy + Glyph of Dark Soul + Wild Imps (passive) *Unglyphed*

    _____________________________

    I can't wait to see if they have fixed that bug where leaving Meta when Cursed Aura was up sent you back to your hearthstone home
    and the bug where Soul Fire did not consume Molten Core charges.
    And I hope Glyph of Soul Consumption works now.
    Sure Imp Swarm lines up with Dark Soul NOW, but when we get our 4 set bonus (reduces the CD of DS by 40 seconds) it won't line up anymore without delaying one for the other.

  14. #854
    Brewmaster Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neubs986 View Post
    Sure Imp Swarm lines up with Dark Soul NOW, but when we get our 4 set bonus (reduces the CD of DS by 40 seconds) it won't line up anymore without delaying one for the other.
    Which is easier then you would think. I have a 109s cooldown on Imps without any haste procs going and with the 4pc I would have a 80s cooldown on DS. Looking at a 6 minute fight, which is fairly typical of a single target burn fight, you could DS at 0, 80s, 160s, 240s, and 320s and get 4. You could also DS, at 0, 84 (since hero will reduce the cd of imps), 178 (DS will still be up when imps come off cd) 258, 338. You will still get 4 DS, but also the first 3 line up with imps.

    There is a lot more play with cooldowns then people assume there are.

  15. #855
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    Which is easier then you would think. I have a 109s cooldown on Imps without any haste procs going and with the 4pc I would have a 80s cooldown on DS. Looking at a 6 minute fight, which is fairly typical of a single target burn fight, you could DS at 0, 80s, 160s, 240s, and 320s and get 4. You could also DS, at 0, 84 (since hero will reduce the cd of imps), 178 (DS will still be up when imps come off cd) 258, 338. You will still get 4 DS, but also the first 3 line up with imps.

    There is a lot more play with cooldowns then people assume there are.
    Ah yes. I completely forgot that haste reduces the CD of Imp Swarm.

  16. #856
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    So far on the PTR, Demo is the only rotation/priorities I have a hard time feeling like I'm getting "right" ... all the stance dancing feels very awkward
    You & me both matey. can someone clarify something for me? bearing in mind my 'Lock is 87...

    I'm under the impression that you put your Curse up, & keep Corruption up whilst spamming Shadowbolt, then when you max out on Fury switch to Meta, stick up Doom, & spam Touch of Chaos, well, I go OOM in caster form REAL quick, is that intended? when do we use the other spells? Molten Core procs etc?

    I get the idea of it, but mana seems to be a real problem, especially if I use Molten Core Procs on Soul Fire, said spell also burns my Fury real quick too...
    Last edited by mmoc0f38054b92; 2012-07-29 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Spelling, & clarity

  17. #857
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Actually I don't have a too hard of a time with Demonology
    Generally I try not to worry too much about whether i refresh corrupt in meta or caster and that allows me to reduce the number of times i enter meta to about 4 or 5 per two-minute cooldown of Dark Soul.

    Dark soul is the real burn phase for Demonology. you want to be at 1000 fury for Dark Soul
    but other wise you just burn a little fury here and burn a little fury there between Dark Soul Cooldowns so that you are never too low on fury before the next DS you never cap fury. (it's like a Cata Arcane Mage if Arcane mages had DoTs and pets)

    for me that works out to about 3 uses of Meta during that 100 second window between the end of one DS and the start of a new DS.

    We only have two real DoTs, and one of them is a minute long, is it's really easy to maintain.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-29 at 02:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Girouette View Post
    well, I go OOM in caster form REAL quick, is that intended? when do we use the other spells? Molten Core procs etc?

    sometimes you just have to reconcile yourself to the fact you need to hit LIFE TAP.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-07-29 at 06:36 PM.

  18. #858
    Deleted
    Priority and opener taken from the sim:

    6 curse_of_the_elements,if=debuff.magic_vulnerability.down
    7 use_item,name=flashfrozen_rosin_globule (On use trinket included in the 463 pre-raid gear used by the sim)
    8 jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.health.pct<=20
    9 blood_fury
    A dark_soul
    B service_felguard,if=talent.grimoire_of_service.enabled
    C grimoire_of_sacrifice,if=talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled ------------------- Not active atm
    D summon_felguard,if=talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled&buff.grimoire_of_sacrifice.down ---------------- Not active atm
    E melee ---------------------- Trigger melee in demonform
    F felguard:felstorm
    G run_action_list,name=aoe,if=num_targets>5 (Only used for AoE)
    H summon_doomguard
    I corruption,cycle_targets=1,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&target.time_to_die>=6&miss_reac t
    J doom,cycle_targets=1,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time|(ticks_remain+1<n_ticks&buff.dark_soul .up))&target.time_to_die>=30&miss_react
    K metamorphosis,if=buff.dark_soul.up|dot.corruption.remains<5|demonic_fury>=900|demonic_fury >=target.time_to_die*30 ---------------- Activate Metamorphosis if dark soul is up or corruption has <5 seconds remaining or your demonic fury exceeds 900
    L cancel_metamorphosis,if=dot.corruption.remains>15&buff.dark_soul.down&demonic_fury<=750&ta rget.time_to_die>30------------------Cancel methamorphosis if corruption has more than 15 seconds remaining and dark soul is on cooldown and Demonic fury is lower than 750
    M imp_swarm
    N hand_of_guldan,if=!in_flight&dot.shadowflame.remains<travel_time+action.shadow_bolt.cast_t ime
    O soul_fire,if=buff.molten_core.react&(buff.metamorphosis.down|target.health.pct<25)------------ Never use soul fire when Methamorphosis is active (Costs to much demonic fury)
    P touch_of_chaos
    Q life_tap,if=mana.pct<50
    R shadow_bolt
    S fel_flame,moving=1
    T life_tap


    Opener (first 20 seconds of dark soul):

    (On use trinket + Blood fury + Dark Soul + Service felguard) > Felstorm > Doomguard > Corruption > Activate Methamorphosis > Melee (should already be active by attacking) > Doom > Doom (Extends the duration, you want to have a maximum amount of doom ticks with Dark soul and buffs up) > Imp swarm > Touch of Chaos > Doom > Hand of Guldan > Shadowbolt x2 > Hand of Guldan > Methamorphosis > Touch of chaos * x

    *This can be macroed together in most cases

  19. #859
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Actually I don't have a too hard of a time with Demonology
    Generally I try not to worry too much about whether i refresh corrupt in meta or caster and that allows me to reduce the number of times i enter meta to about 4 or 5 per two-minute cooldown of Dark Soul.

    Dark soul is the real burn phase for Demonology. you want to be at 1000 fury for Dark Soul
    but other wise you just burn a little fury here and burn a little fury there between Dark Soul Cooldowns so that you are never too low on fury before the next DS you never cap fury. (it's like a Cata Arcane Mage if Arcane mages had DoTs and pets)

    for me that works out to about 3 uses of Meta during that 100 second window between the end of one DS and the start of a new DS.

    We only have two real DoTs, and one of them is a minute long, is it's really easy to maintain.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-29 at 02:58 PM ----------




    sometimes you just have to reconcile yourself to the fact you need to hit LIFE TAP.
    Figured I'd be hitting that, get kinda spoiled by Destro's frankly insane regen.

  20. #860
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabsqt View Post
    Priority and opener taken from the sim:

    6 curse_of_the_elements,if=debuff.magic_vulnerability.down
    7 use_item,name=flashfrozen_rosin_globule (On use trinket included in the 463 pre-raid gear used by the sim)
    8 jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.health.pct<=20
    9 blood_fury
    A dark_soul
    B service_felguard,if=talent.grimoire_of_service.enabled
    C grimoire_of_sacrifice,if=talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled ------------------- Not active atm
    D summon_felguard,if=talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled&buff.grimoire_of_sacrifice.down ---------------- Not active atm
    E melee ---------------------- Trigger melee in demonform
    F felguard:felstorm
    G run_action_list,name=aoe,if=num_targets>5 (Only used for AoE)
    H summon_doomguard
    I corruption,cycle_targets=1,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&target.time_to_die>=6&miss_reac t
    J doom,cycle_targets=1,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time|(ticks_remain+1<n_ticks&buff.dark_soul .up))&target.time_to_die>=30&miss_react
    K metamorphosis,if=buff.dark_soul.up|dot.corruption.remains<5|demonic_fury>=900|demonic_fury >=target.time_to_die*30 ---------------- Activate Metamorphosis if dark soul is up or corruption has <5 seconds remaining or your demonic fury exceeds 900
    L cancel_metamorphosis,if=dot.corruption.remains>15&buff.dark_soul.down&demonic_fury<=750&ta rget.time_to_die>30------------------Cancel methamorphosis if corruption has more than 15 seconds remaining and dark soul is on cooldown and Demonic fury is lower than 750
    M imp_swarm
    N hand_of_guldan,if=!in_flight&dot.shadowflame.remains<travel_time+action.shadow_bolt.cast_t ime
    O soul_fire,if=buff.molten_core.react&(buff.metamorphosis.down|target.health.pct<25)------------ Never use soul fire when Methamorphosis is active (Costs to much demonic fury)
    P touch_of_chaos
    Q life_tap,if=mana.pct<50
    R shadow_bolt
    S fel_flame,moving=1
    T life_tap


    Opener (first 20 seconds of dark soul):

    (On use trinket + Blood fury + Dark Soul + Service felguard) > Felstorm > Doomguard > Corruption > Activate Methamorphosis > Melee (should already be active by attacking) > Doom > Doom (Extends the duration, you want to have a maximum amount of doom ticks with Dark soul and buffs up) > Imp swarm > Touch of Chaos > Doom > Hand of Guldan > Shadowbolt x2 > Hand of Guldan > Methamorphosis > Touch of chaos * x

    *This can be macroed together in most cases
    I don't speak Sim. So i need some help interpretting.

    *Does this sim imply GoServ is better than GoSac when min/maxing around 2-minute cooldown stacking (GoServ+DS+Bloodfury)?

    *So molten core procs should be banked until we drop out of Metamorphosis and spent while in caster form, but what about when we are in execute range? I assume if the target has really long execute we still use Touch of chaos to burn Fury and then we spam Soul Fire in casterform; but if the target will die soon we might as well spend the fury on Soul Fire, right?

    *the line [G run_action_list,name=aoe,if=num_targets>5 ] is vague, i get that you use AoE on 5 targets or more but what does that mean? It would also be nice to see someone siming whether Immolation Aura alone, or ImmA+Void Ray or ImmA+Harvest Life or ImmA+ToC is the most efficient use of fury during AoE. Also

    *Do we use Hand of Guldan or Chaos Wave rotationally? I assume the line [N hand_of_guldan,if=!in_flight&dot.shadowflame.remains<travel_time+action.shadow_bolt.cast_t ime] means using a HoG->SB->HoG combination, does it mean you do or do not stack the Shadowflame Dot?

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-30 at 10:09 AM ----------

    So i have been playing on the PTR for another weekend, and I have decided that the only thing that sticks in my craw with Demonology is the fact that Corruption and Doom each have to be cast in there respective stances.

    At first I thought it wasn't such a big deal but now I feel that, in fact, it's really kind of lame. basically if we make a mistake and one of the DoT's drops off we have to leave whatever stance we are in to put up the DoT, this complication serves no particular purpose other than perhaps as a skill cap

    just make Doom cost fury and Corruption cost mana, and make then both castable in either form, and make them both benefit from Mastery as if cast in meta (and adjust damage coefficients to corruption to compensate).
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-07-30 at 02:10 PM.

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