[Found] Warships Before Darkshore

[Deleted]

Sorry guys but the argument "The nightelves have some other problems" is not valid anymore.

Sure it WAS like this at the beginning, cenarius dead, nordrassil sacrificed, teldrassil corupted, malfurion missing, ancients sleeping and so on.

But now, EVERYTHING is solved: Malfurion is back, Nordrassil is growing again (there are even rumors that Nightelves got their immortality back now) and Ragnaros got killed, Deathwing and the twilight Hammer got wiped out of Hyjal, Teldrassil is cleansed, Cenarion is back from the dead with the anciants awakened.

The Nightelves do not have other duties anymore beside protecting THEIR PEOPLE and their forests.

The Orcs chopped down 2/3 of Ashenvale, killed an entire School of Druids, tried to trap and kill Tyrande and STILL Malfurion is sitting on his ass, now where all the greater problems are solved, Cenarion once called to protect the nightelves against the orcs is doing nothig, too.

But then again, even the sentinel army is standing in Feralas, skrimishing with some unimportent Nagas inside a stretegic unimportent forest.


Guys it is not classic anymore, if the Horde attacs Stormwind, and the nightelves doing nothing, you can call them neutral, but since the horde is heavyly attacking nightelf territories, and the elves are doin nithing, this isn´t being neutral, this is not even realistic, this is beyond bad writing.


Seriously, with that all in mind, the Nightelves shoudl be one of the mightiest military forced in WoW. They have an entire Army of Warriors who trained for thousands of years, 2 race specific gods, a half-god and several other dietys, they have the most powerful caster as their faction leader and 2 world trees and the well of eternity.

I realy wish Tyrande would have chosen Illidan in the first place, he would not sit in Darnassus while his people are slaughtered.

[Deleted]

Someone earlier said this.

As an Alliance player, I dont feel any victories while leveling in revamped Cataclysm zones. Its all pushing enemy back, cleaning our teritory. All what Alliance does is stand and wait for attack while Horde is on move and Horde players can experience their warmachine moving on.
Maybe, to some extent, Alliance did win in Catalclysm here and there. But the way how they treated the whole Worgen thing - Ill always be sad-furry over that.Its all just panic, evacution, leave this and that. As a Forsaken player, you get to bomb it and move in and actually destroy it. When Alliance player(Worgen) leaves the zone its just that feeling of lost battle.Baam, loading screen- Welcome to your new hom--err, tree! Here, take this knife and kill some murlocs.

From Forsaken perspective, you get to experience it all. Spying Worgen, killing them, bargaining with Crowley.When that zone ends, they send you off to North to kill move Worgen,Dwarves and grow humans-the hell?

Leveling in Darkshore, Westfall S-Barrens was almost humiliating.Ive leveled 2 Worgen characters and 2 Goblin characters. Each charater on their own continent so I know of what Im talking about.
And I wont even go into details about Twilight Highlands-dwarf wedding,push the filthy orcs back from Ally PoV.You all know the Horde version of the zone.

Problem is the non-consistent lore/quests thing. What happens lore-wise doesnt always reflect while questing.

Fully agreed with this. Except the Twilight Highlands thing, but not because I think dwarf weddings are awesome, but because I have no clue what the Horde does in their part. I know they have a better intro, but that's about it.

[Deleted]

This looks curious... very curious indeed.

[Primaliron]

Fully agreed with this. Except the Twilight Highlands thing, but not because I think dwarf weddings are awesome, but because I have no clue what the Horde does in their part. I know they have a better intro, but that's about it.

It's not really a better intro. Maybe for people who have no idea how badly planned and executed the Horde assault is. The only part of TH that is better for the Horde is really the part where you get the Dragonmaw to join up by killing the Fel Orc Dragonmaw from Outland. The dwarf wedding is really nowehere near as cool as being captured, breaking out, and rallying the non-fel Dragonmaw to fight for their freedom, and then join the Horde. But then, as has been said a thousand times, the problem with Alliance questing is that the storytelling sucks.

[Abe]

It wasn't enough that night elves preety much lost Auberdine(to Cataclysm), half of Ashenvale (to Horde and a fire elemental), Azshara (to Horde), Winterspring (to neutrality), Stonetalon Peak base (to Old Gods), some other base on Stonetalon (to a Horde bomb), now they bring warships next to Teldrassil.

You know what, I'm just tired of this, they bring all this then say that just killing Garrosh and getting a more "united' Alliance will tip the scales back. Well I don't think that. Even Horde wants Garrosh dead, so it's a benefit to both factions and many don't want to sit under king Chin, some of us want the Alliance to stay as that, an Alliance between distinct nations, an EU with army if you wish.

It's like we're twins that were separated at birth...

[Primaliron]

uys it is not classic anymore, if the Horde attacs Stormwind, and the nightelves doing nothing, you can call them neutral, but since the horde is heavyly attacking nightelf territories, and the elves are doin nithing, this isn´t being neutral, this is not even realistic, this is beyond bad writing.

Seriously, with that all in mind, the Nightelves shoudl be one of the mightiest military forced in WoW. They have an entire Army of Warriors who trained for thousands of years, 2 race specific gods, a half-god and several other dietys, they have the most powerful caster as their faction leader and 2 world trees and the well of eternity.

It is bad writing, cause you seem to be unaware (due to the bad writing and not having played Horde I assume) that the Night Elves are attacking Orgrimmar's rear gate. They have a whole new town out there in Ashenvale (it was a tent or two and a FP before, now they have buildings and siege equipment). A steady stream of Night Elves is pressing on the gate. of course you wouldn't know that because there is no FP there, no Alliance quests.... just a bunch of purple people streaming in on the main horde capital, and no Alliance players to appreciate it.

[Austilias]

I expect the Horde War Machine to truly be revved and fired up this expansion; the rise before the fall. Get used to it people, we will likely get our asses handed to us for most of the expansion; remember Northrend? Compare Valiance Keep and Warsong hold, for example; the Horde build bigger, better and faster, and can establish a base anywhere they want with ease.

How do the Alliance set up shop in Pandaria? The King's prepubescent boy lands on Pandaria and decides he wants to hang around explore, hardly a tactical precedent. The few victories we've seen the Alliance claim in Cataclysm have hardly been that honourable; Camp Taurajo was a disaster and got way out of proportion, the man responsible for it even having said that he never intended for the sheer number of women and children that were killed to be killed. The Alliance has had offensives sure, but they're easily crushed; a less than capable troupe of poorly hidden elves as well as the new, clumsy Night Elf mages behind Orgrimmar for example, get slaughtered with ease by their own mishaps and Goblin technology.

I can see all manner of war crimes taking place in MoP; for example, I foresee Garrosh, in a boast of his own pride and Orcish strength, perhaps killing Cenarius once more when they eventually invoke the true wrath of the Night Elves as they venture northward through the forests; a crime so monstrous to their kin that I would foresee even Malfurion casting aside his vow of neutrality (one that he maintains even whilst his woman is having the shit beaten out of her by Horde raids) and being one of doubtless many Alliance leaders who, in having stood idly by for too long, will begin the great pushback against the Horde until at last, Garrosh is forced into hiding within Orgrimmar, just as we saw with Overlord Mor'ghor in Dragonmaw Port, will result in his eventual ousting.

[mistuhbull]

been to ashenvale? the horde take 2 or 3 of the nightelf bases and all the nightelves are left with is a very small recently established base and town in flames. how did the horde not win?

---------- Post added 2012-04-05 at 04:40 AM ----------



the war in hyjal is long over

I'm sorry have you been to Ashenvale? The Night Elves undo every single Horde advancement and push them back to the Mor'shan Rampart. How did the Alliance not win?

[Deleted]

It is bad writing, cause you seem to be unaware (due to the bad writing and not having played Horde I assume) that the Night Elves are attacking Orgrimmar's rear gate. They have a whole new town out there in Ashenvale (it was a tent or two and a FP before, now they have buildings and siege equipment). A steady stream of Night Elves is pressing on the gate. of course you wouldn't know that because there is no FP there, no Alliance quests.... just a bunch of purple people streaming in on the main horde capital, and no Alliance players to appreciate it.

I quested through Ashenvale, it was one of the few places i wanted to see after the revamp, but i didn´t see anything you mentioned, i also looked for it now, but again i can´t see any nightelven attack on anything there, beside some male scrimishers at the mor shan wall.

All i was able to find was nightelves who are defending the entrence between Ashenvale and Azshara, but this is not an elven army pressing on anything, they just protect their borders, and i would bet they get wrecked during the goblin quests.

I'm sorry have you been to Ashenvale? The Night Elves undo every single Horde advancement and push them back to the Mor'shan Rampart. How did the Alliance not win?

And this is why the things are wrong. "Horde advancements" ... Yes the nightelves maybe were able to stop the Horde, but Silverwing is still full of them, half of the forest is chopped, and so on.

Where are the advancements for the Alliance? The destroyed Alliance Keep near Orgrimmar ? The destroyed useless Camp Taurjo? Well i can´t think of more.
There was not much for allianceplayers to cheer in Cataclysm

[Easo]

Will end in stalemate or something similar to Andorhal, Swamp of Sorrows, etc. Horde fleet will probably get decimated, Alliance will lose elsewhere.

[ambigiouslynamed]

It's not really a better intro. Maybe for people who have no idea how badly planned and executed the Horde assault is. The only part of TH that is better for the Horde is really the part where you get the Dragonmaw to join up by killing the Fel Orc Dragonmaw from Outland. The dwarf wedding is really nowehere near as cool as being captured, breaking out, and rallying the non-fel Dragonmaw to fight for their freedom, and then join the Horde. But then, as has been said a thousand times, the problem with Alliance questing is that the storytelling sucks.

no, the horde intro is better. why? the alliance intro is to hop in a plane being flown by a drunken dwarf, quickly blackout and start questing. THATS IT

---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 02:07 AM ----------

I'm sorry have you been to Ashenvale? The Night Elves undo every single Horde advancement and push them back to the Mor'shan Rampart. How did the Alliance not win?

they dont do any of that. the horde town overlooking Astrannar? still there. Silverwind Refuge? still horde. Maestra's Post? taken over by horde. anything else?

[Deleted]

I quested through Ashenvale, it was one of the few places i wanted to see after the revamp, but i didn´t see anything you mentioned, i also looked for it now, but again i can´t see any nightelven attack on anything there, beside some male scrimishers at the mor shan wall.

All i was able to find was nightelves who are defending the entrence between Ashenvale and Azshara, but this is not an elven army pressing on anything, they just protect their borders, and i would bet they get wrecked during the goblin quests.

It's in Azshara. There used to be only a FP with some Night Elves. Now there is a town without FP with the Night Elves attacking that mine or whatever it as at the new entrance of Orgrimmar. There is a lot more Night Elven activity in Azshara now, seems Blizzard can give them some development there if they are being used as punchbag for the Horde.

[Primaliron]

no, the horde intro is better. why? the alliance intro is to hop in a plane being flown by a drunken dwarf, quickly blackout and start questing. THATS IT[COLOR="red"]

I suppose that depends on whether or not watching Garrosh act like an idiot is entertaining to you. Sure the Horde have this big zepplin onslaught, and you watch Garrosh pretty much completely f*ck it up as he decides it's a great idea to send away his fighter support to attack the Alliance. I suppose it's like watching a history channel show on great blunders in history, except most military leaders aren't stupid enough to send away their cover while flying into enemy territory and knowing the enemy is expecting you.....

Why does Thrall think this guy is a great warrior?

Anyway it's a great time to take a bathroom break.

[Chonar]

no, the horde intro is better. why? the alliance intro is to hop in a plane being flown by a drunken dwarf, quickly blackout and start questing. THATS IT

Not just any drunken dwarf. Thats Fargo Flintlocke, dammit!

[Deleted]

It's like we're twins that were separated at birth...

My long lost brother/sister! So nice to finally meet you! Let's celebrate by killing some orcs.

I'm sorry have you been to Ashenvale? The Night Elves undo every single Horde advancement and push them back to the Mor'shan Rampart. How did the Alliance not win?

aaa.... Silverwing Outpost => taken fully, everyone dead there, a third of forest cut. The Hordies are still streaming through the breach near Stardust Spire.

I quested through Ashenvale, it was one of the few places i wanted to see after the revamp, but i didn´t see anything you mentioned, i also looked for it now, but again i can´t see any nightelven attack on anything there, beside some male scrimishers at the mor shan wall.

All i was able to find was nightelves who are defending the entrence between Ashenvale and Azshara, but this is not an elven army pressing on anything, they just protect their borders, and i would bet they get wrecked during the goblin quests.

I played Horde bit to see their experience in Cataclysm (about till level 23, then I decided I can't stand the goblin anymore... the fact that he was a goblin didn't help much) and can tell you what the night elves are doing. Ok, ready? So, this force of archers, marksmen and hunters trained in the arts of archery for the last 10k years, having learned tactics to defend against much stronger enemies (the Legion) are... sending their soldiers one by one in melee, with no support from siege or something... to attack the best defended Horde areas, like the Org gate. Yes, that sure makes me feel proud! *sarcasm* But it's ok, it's not all lost, I mean the Horde has nothing on the night elves, we have ancients and archers actually attacking Splintertree Outpost... until they get killed by one single kodo. Giant trees and archers trained for hundreads of years at least fighting in a familiar environment... get defeated by a desert rhino...

[Primaliron]

It doesnt matter if faction wins/looses somewhere. What Cata reflects from Horde PoV is both. Alliance player experiences looses.
And no,protecting camp from attackers isnt win. Its just holding to your positions,while enemy is on their move. Thats what happens while questing Cata.

I agree with this entirely. It baffles me greatly given how much pressure is clearly being exerted on the Horde, and yet the Alliance experience is so lame by comparison. One of the factors that makes questing as Horde feel so much better is the fact that they are surrounded by the enemy and struggling every day. Alliance quests are far more detached and involve defeating far more lesser powers. The Horde front is far away from the capitals. I guess that explains why all my Allaince characters are Draenei and Worgen. I'd really rather play Night Elves and Dwarves, but their starting zones are pretty dull (though they have jazzed up the Dwarves a slight touch). There isn't a feel of being heroic and having the survival of your people depend on you. Oh well I endure it anyway, cause my guild always needs me to level something new and I don't feel like server/faction transferring my Hordies.

[Deleted]

So exactly what i expected... The Nightelves in Azshara are just there to get wrecked by stupid little Goblins ... a race that is not even intended to be taken seriously.

In Ashenvale, well there is absolutely NO victory for the Alliance. All we do there is stopping the Horde from getting even MORE victories while we still lost 2/3 of the forest, just stopping the Horde from taking the left 1/3.

But then, after you quested through Ashenvale and being oimpletly demotivated, you get to Stonetalon, where everything peaks on the trial of stopping a goddamn balloon ... seriously a balloon with a big bomb on it. You complete your quests there, missing a slow , wind powdered balloon everytime and at the end EVERYTHING you did there, was for nothing since you cannot win this, you quest through it for the sake of seeing you lose and a SCHOOL!! is nuked to a giant crate.
After that your NPCs tell you "shit happens, move on" ... i mean what?!

[Deleted]

After that your NPCs tell you "shit happens, move on" ... i mean what?!

True that as well, the Alliance part always seems to end so abruptly, so ok, they destroyed this school I was thinking, time for payback! "go to Desolace, the alliance recruiter is waiting" Ok, Desolace, Horde killing time! "Ok, welcome, go kill some satyrs"... wait, what? And all that while the Horde makes a tornado and destroys Nijel's Point.