Thread: Xbox Durango

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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Piracy problem? How are used game sales piracy? By that logic, Blockbuster is a piracy service that's been in service for decades and make money off of it. Same with Netflix.
    Only the person that originally bought the game, actually has rights to play the game. It is technically "piracy" because you are reproducing intellectual property for a third party without express permission from the creator. It is copyright infringement.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    In long-term consoles have become an investment. PC components need to change every 2-3 years to benefit the new games coming out. Because the dev kits and well optimized consoles games will always look better on consoles than a computer with similar components.
    I agree, but that's because the hardware in question is several years old, and the games in question look better on PCs using components two or three years old than the consoles for which the games are heavily optimized for. Additionally, while next-gen consoles are indeed a pretty decent deal right near their launch date, they rapidly become less and less valuable as time goes on (kinda like cars, really) because their components become more and more dated... and yet the price doesn't really fall. An Xbox 360 with the same quality of components as the release version still costs about $300 - barely $100 less than it cost at launch, despite components mostly being the same.

    It's also worth noting that it's easier to troubleshoot and fix PCs than it is to fix consoles - if you get an RROD error, you either have to replace the console or void your warranty by opening it up and trying to replace components. That's never an issue with a PC.

    It's odd that you're referring to consoles as an investment when they cannot be upgraded and are indeed planned to become obsolete after a certain time. A PC is an investment because a proper motherboard with the right kinds of slots will literally last you for years without never needing to be replaced, and now that the rate of form factor advancement has slowed, that same motherboard will last you through multiple processor and video card upgrades, especially if you aren't focused on always having the latest and greatest and instead go for the best deals.

    You can't pull out an aging video card from a console and pop in a newer one - you're stuck with what you've got. This makes it easier for developers to design games (because every console has the same hardware), and is why consoles with horribly outdated equipment can run current-gen games, but it's also a very major drawback for consoles and pretty much the biggest reason I can't recommend someone use a console for gaming when a PC will cost about the same but be much better in the long run.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-03 at 04:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gruyaka View Post
    Only the person that originally bought the game, actually has rights to play the game. It is technically "piracy" because you are reproducing intellectual property for a third party without express permission from the creator. It is copyright infringement.
    No. Physical media sales are done such that you own that physical copy of the game and are free to do as you wish with it, including selling it to someone else. You aren't selling the game, you are selling the copy of the game, which you own.

    The same laws apply to DVDs and VHS tapes, and it's why businesses like Blockbuster aren't illegal.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  3. #23
    http://www.gamezone.com/products/xbo...ease-confirmed

    Constant internet connection? not sure if I like this idea...
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    Haters gonna hate

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    No. Physical media sales are done such that you own that physical copy of the game and are free to do as you wish with it, including selling it to someone else. You aren't selling the game, you are selling the copy of the game, which you own.

    The same laws apply to DVDs and VHS tapes, and it's why businesses like Blockbuster aren't illegal.
    No. Actually any game with a EULA is illegal to re-sell. Just because the companies haven't pursued any action against Gamestop etc. doesn't mean they can't. EA was actually considering pursuing this.

    They license you the rights to use their software, they do not sell you the game itself.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I agree, but that's because the hardware in question is several years old, and the games in question look better on PCs using components two or three years old than the consoles for which the games are heavily optimized for. Additionally, while next-gen consoles are indeed a pretty decent deal right near their launch date, they rapidly become less and less valuable as time goes on (kinda like cars, really) because their components become more and more dated... and yet the price doesn't really fall...

    ...You can't pull out an aging video card from a console and pop in a newer one - you're stuck with what you've got. This makes it easier for developers to design games (because every console has the same hardware), and is why consoles with horribly outdated equipment can run current-gen games, but it's also a very major drawback for consoles and pretty much the biggest reason I can't recommend someone use a console for gaming when a PC will cost about the same but be much better in the long run. ...
    The price fell a LOT. PS3s dropped in half. The new Xbox360 (black slim one with WiFi and Kinect capability) costs from 199$+ while the original with those featured (named elite but didn't have Kinect obviously was around 470$).

    While you can't change the video card/components in your console you don't have to because games run at a 30-60 FPS and 1080p/720p. Fact is once you buy the first Xbox360/PS3 you can run any game from launch until the end of the life-cycle (some with backwards compatibility).

    Regarding errors like RRoD not only was it fixed in newer models but Microsoft replaced your console on the spot if it was still in warranty. You don't have the same customization features of a PC but it's specifically designed for gaming so you honestly don't need to. It'd be very bad for the consumer if Microsoft or Sony released an upgrade-able console and then have games each 2 years that demand a mandatory upgrade of your console.

    There are however console-style PCs developed by Alienware where you can change components however games will NOT be optimized for them so they will look far worse than on consoles. Right now their rig is around 600$ for the started edition and with the next Xbox around the corner that's a high price especially considering that games don't look that much better than on a 199$ Xbox360.

  6. #26
    More Rumors but....

    http:\\uk.gamespot.com/news/next-xbo...report-6369346

    Sounds like there is a blue ray player so hopefully second hand games and what not will be available, although the whole being connected the whole time could be annoying for some people - my xbox is always connected now so it wouldn't make any difference to me, but I can image people with limited bandwidth and what not might be painful...

    Kinect inbuilt as standard is a funky feature, I guess we are going to see more and more games with a Kinect side.

  7. #27
    XBOX has gotten even bigger than it already is? Now it's the size of an SUV!?
    "It's clear this is another bash Apple thread. Such things are not conducive to a good discussion."

    WRONG! Those are the BEST discussions!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gruyaka View Post
    No. Actually any game with a EULA is illegal to re-sell. Just because the companies haven't pursued any action against Gamestop etc. doesn't mean they can't. EA was actually considering pursuing this.

    They license you the rights to use their software, they do not sell you the game itself.
    You are not selling the game, you are selling your COPY of the game. You aren't selling the game or the IP, just the physical media on which it's printed.

    It's a very distinct difference and it's why any lawsuit filed by EA against GameStop over second-hand sales of physical media would get laughed out of court.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-03 at 05:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    The price fell a LOT. PS3s dropped in half. The new Xbox360 (black slim one with WiFi and Kinect capability) costs from 199$+ while the original with those featured (named elite but didn't have Kinect obviously was around 470$).

    While you can't change the video card/components in your console you don't have to because games run at a 30-60 FPS and 1080p/720p. Fact is once you buy the first Xbox360/PS3 you can run any game from launch until the end of the life-cycle (some with backwards compatibility).
    At lower framerates and less graphical fidelity, sure. The cost for a new 250GB Xbox 360 is the same cost as the cost of one of the first-run Elite 250GB models.

    Again, keep in mind that even 1080p is a pretty small resolution by modern standards. Even single displays can be much higher quality than that, and gaming computers on the higher end of the spectrum can easily handle multiple displays. This doesn't mean a single image is stretched to fit on larger monitors (which will result in a washed-out look, which is why those giant 90 inch TVs look like crap if you're sitting up close to them), it's multiple images.

    Consoles can never, ever compete with PCs in terms of graphical fidelity or performance. Their sole advantage is that they're managing to run modern game engines on severely outdated hardware, but that costs them fidelity.

    Regarding errors like RRoD not only was it fixed in newer models but Microsoft replaced your console on the spot if it was still in warranty. You don't have the same customization features of a PC but it's specifically designed for gaming so you honestly don't need to. It'd be very bad for the consumer if Microsoft or Sony released an upgrade-able console and then have games each 2 years that demand a mandatory upgrade of your console.
    That's not something that applies to PCs, either. Any decent PC title (or even just a decent PC port) will scale up or down very effectively. The only games you might have issues running are rushed console ports, and even then it's not usually an issue. My PC's components are at least five years old for the newest of them and I can still run games like Battlefield 3 at acceptable framerates. I could build a computer now for a similar cost of an Xbox or PS3 and put the visuals on either of those machines to shame.

    There are however console-style PCs developed by Alienware where you can change components however games will NOT be optimized for them so they will look far worse than on consoles. Right now their rig is around 600$ for the started edition and with the next Xbox around the corner that's a high price especially considering that games don't look that much better than on a 199$ Xbox360.
    To be brutally honest, anyone that buys an Alienware PC is a fool. They're enormously overpriced, use subpar components, and the slim factor PCs are not capable of gaming - the joke is that you can play a game and cook a turkey at the same time due to the absolutely horrible cooling solutions they use. You also can't really upgrade them since the teeny case gives you few options. The slim Alienware PCs would make great Media Center PCs for playing movies and things like that, but you could just as easily build a computer with better components for half the cost, using the same style of case.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gruyaka View Post
    No. Actually any game with a EULA is illegal to re-sell. Just because the companies haven't pursued any action against Gamestop etc. doesn't mean they can't. EA was actually considering pursuing this.

    They license you the rights to use their software, they do not sell you the game itself.
    An EULA cannot overwrite a statutory right. If you knew your rights you would know that actually, yes, the companies cannot pursue any action against retailers. EA did not pursue this, but instead decided to withhold credit from GAME (which while not the cause, may have been the final nail in its coffin).

    You are not licensed to use the software, you have a legally obtained copy of their copyrighted work, thus you have fulfilled First Sale Doctrine.

    What the companies are actually trying to do with the new consoles, is to obtain droit de suite whereby you will be allowed to sell your copy of the game, or give/lend it to a friend, but they have to pay a fee to the original artist (pay PSN or Xbox LIVE to unlock the game) or they will only have at best a demo access.

    But then, it's hard to expect people to be informed of their rights in this day and age.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    ...

    At lower framerates and less graphical fidelity, sure. The cost for a new 250GB Xbox 360 is the same cost as the cost of one of the first-run Elite 250GB models.

    Again, keep in mind that even 1080p is a pretty small resolution by modern standards. ...
    Consoles can never, ever compete with PCs in terms of graphical fidelity or performance. Their sole advantage is that they're managing to run modern game engines on severely outdated hardware, but that costs them fidelity.



    That's not something that applies to PCs, either. Any decent PC title (or even just a decent PC port) will scale up or down very effectively. The only games you might have issues running are rushed console ports, and even then it's not usually an issue. My PC's components are at least five years old for the newest of them and I can still run games like Battlefield 3 at acceptable framerates. I could build a computer now for a similar cost of an Xbox or PS3 and put the visuals on either of those machines to shame.


    To be brutally honest, anyone that buys an Alienware PC is a fool. They're enormously overpriced, use subpar components, and the slim factor PCs are not capable of gaming - the joke is that you can play a game and cook a turkey at the same time due to the absolutely horrible cooling solutions they use. You also can't really upgrade them since the teeny case gives you few options. The slim Alienware PCs would make great Media Center PCs for playing movies and things like that, but you could just as easily build a computer with better components for half the cost, using the same style of case.


    1st off the Xbox360 250GB model retails at 299$ (recent promotions have it at 249$ and depending on deals you may be able to get it for lower) while the Elite version back then cost around 470$ retail.

    2nd 1080p is the modern standard. When you buy a BluRay movie it comes in 1080 regardless of the size of your TV. The're s a default option in each TV to stretch the image across the board. (some) Large TVs have a few features to soften the image so that the drop in quality when you're up close it doesn't get so bad, but regardless the media format standard since 2008 is 1080p/720p.

    3rd computers scale each year with new CPUs and GPUs launched by ATI, AMD etc to push the graphical fidelity forward. It's obvious that a certain piece of hardware that hasn't been upgraded will not have as much "room to maneuver" however with dev-kits, software and custom built and modified infrastructure of the console they are able to "milk" far more than any PC with the similar components.

    4th here's some test with newer and older graphics cards on Battlefied 3. Please note that the console version looks almost like the PC with everything on high.

    - New video cards (nvidia) score on High
    - Old video cards (nvidia) score on Low

    Take a look at the 1080p (1920x1080) fps. Here's a side-by-side comparison - PC on high. Also keep in mind that both PS3 and Xbox360 run the game at 29.6+ FPS per average.

    4th as far as Alienware goes here's a nifty review. I'd like to point out that "it's capable of accepting a full-height 3D card means the X51 is a better gaming machine than any other slim tower we've tested." Oh and "What's remarkable is that Alienware can credibly call the X51 a gaming desktop". To be honest I do agree that they are somewhat expensive (due to brand and what-not) but their support and in-door custom build rigs are great and components are made to work great with one another via the drivers they have.

    Edit: In order to run Battlefield 3 and have it look better than the console versions you'd need a PC that can handle the ultra settings. The video card alone will be as much as a console and you'd still have to buy a mother board, processor, ram, power source & hdd in addition to mouse, keyboard, monitor etc.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Edit: In order to run Battlefield 3 and have it look better than the console versions you'd need a PC that can handle the ultra settings. The video card alone will be as much as a console and you'd still have to buy a mother board, processor, ram, power source & hdd in addition to mouse, keyboard, monitor etc.
    Yeah but all that turns chicks on big time, much more than "I've got an Xbox" does.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinna View Post
    Yeah but all that turns chicks on big time, much more than "I've got an Xbox" does.
    Tbh they'd prefer something you can share ^_^ Like split-screen games. Tho they also like other 2 player games

    Also best graphics of 2011 went to a console game Uncharted 3 for the PS3.

    Edit: In 2010 as well consoles won yet again with God of War 3 on the PS3.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Tbh they'd prefer something you can share ^_^ Like split-screen games. Tho they also like other 2 player games
    What about lappys + LAN? Where nobody showers all weekend! There are ways you can get splitscreen on the PC (here or here). Hook up a projector and get xbox or ps3 controler software and you're golden!

    If you have a superb rig, the splitscreen on these games is a whole whole lot more fluid than on PS, or better still, if you have top knotch rig, go dual screen and local play.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinna View Post
    What about lappys + LAN? Where nobody showers all weekend! There are ways you can get splitscreen on the PC (here or here). Hook up a projector and get xbox or ps3 controler software and you're golden!

    If you have a superb rig, the splitscreen on these games is a whole whole lot more fluid than on PS, or better still, if you have top knotch rig, go dual screen and local play.
    LANs man those were the days. I remember back in the 90s the internet cafes - fun times, tho I haven't really seen anyone actually do it recently. Last I've done it was years ago and split screen on PC options are very limited compared to PS3/Xbox360 gaming library. Plus you've got dancing on Kinect and girls are mad for that. They wanna show u they're dancing skills so it's a win/win . Watch her pull off a sexy routine or join her and play along.

    However there aren't so many gaming girls. QQ

    Edit: You can use projectors on your consoles if it can support HDMI and most CO-OP games play @ 60fps so it doesn't get more fluid than that ^_^.

    Edit 2: Btw these were some major off-topics :P

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Not really major off-topics if it can be argued that a next gen console that makes it significantly hard to play the game (anything beyond slot in the cartridge and press start) and now you are considering whether you should just get it on the PC instead.

    1) There really are so few good splitscreen games on consoles now. Borderlands was great, and they have promised to work harder on the split screen interface in 2.
    2) You won't be able to easily borrow a game off a friend, sell back your games or play offline
    3) There's even the slight possibility (rumour) that the new consoles won't play bluray

    So if you are going to be playing alone in your living room, with other players only online; if you have to buy the games new, hopefully on sale; if your gaming machine is not your media centre, then why not just use a PC?

    You have to download the game or install it from disk, you have to be online to play, and you can't sell your PC games. But your PC can stream netflix, can play every conceivable video format to your TV/Projector. Your PC is always hooked up to the net and for most games mouse and keyboard is a better interface (and when controller is better, why your PC supports it!)

    But guess what, your PC also surfs the net, does your homework, can be synced to your iDroid device etc.

    I'm really reluctant to say it, but the one group of people who could very easily kill console gaming is Sony/Microsoft if they muff up the next generation by alienating the casual gamer. And in the end they will say it was pirate's fault.

    So making these comparisons to PC gaming, especially when it comes to multiplayer 'in the room', is very ontopic when discussing next generation of console.

  16. #36
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    1) needs exclusives.
    2) waaaaaay better online if im going to have to pay for it.

    doesnt matter how powerful or what it can do.. if those 2 area's are still lacking like this gen, then i do not care for xbox anymore.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insanoflex View Post
    1) needs exclusives.
    2) waaaaaay better online if im going to have to pay for it.

    doesnt matter how powerful or what it can do.. if those 2 area's are still lacking like this gen, then i do not care for xbox anymore.
    Xbox lacks in the exclusive area because they'll just make it for the PC, as Microsoft kinda owns both. Plus, greedy companies that make the games want to spread out, mainly to playstation to make more money, like Mass Effect.

  18. #38
    2) waaaaaay better online if im going to have to pay for it.
    I dont get it. So the fact that xbox live was the clear winner in this generations online capabilitys means nothing? Already bounds and leaps better than PSN and lol wii online.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta333 View Post
    I dont get it. So the fact that xbox live was the clear winner in this generations online capabilitys means nothing? Already bounds and leaps better than PSN and lol wii online.
    no because when i talk about gaming systems i include the pc.. no need to argue about which has better online pc or xbox. xbox live is the better of the 3 console's but thats only because its paid online. We will have to wait and see what nintendo can do with the wii u.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naidia View Post
    Xbox lacks in the exclusive area because they'll just make it for the PC, as Microsoft kinda owns both. Plus, greedy companies that make the games want to spread out, mainly to playstation to make more money, like Mass Effect.
    i dont see it that way at all but fair enough.. i do own a gaming pc though. Wii u is a given as it will just have a ridiculous amount of exclusives, but to give it some competition i want some awesome exclusives from either sony or M$ as i wont be buying all 3 again "next-gen".
    Last edited by mmoccc0b2dd691; 2012-04-03 at 09:58 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arazor View Post
    Can somebody please tell me why it is called Durango? :\
    Sounds like a name for a condom to me.
    Or a car.

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