Why do we still study Shakespear's work?

[ImpTaimer]

I lol'd hard at this.

I have nothing against Shakespeare, I'm just not a fan of old English Literature. I shouldn't have to read a line, take 15 minutes to dissect it down to discover the meaning behind it.

The meaning belongs to its creator. What you "discover" is an acceptance. It's a sanity check.

Relevance is arbitrary. The issue isn't the literature, it's the education system (in pretty much the entire world). Don't blame Shakespeare, blame the teacher. If the teacher "has no control", blame your Superintendent. If your Superintendent "has no control", quit school, hit the library/internet, and study up for a GED. Public schools are pretty much a joke, and private schools are an expensive joke.

[gunner_recall]

I'm talking about college classes, not middle school. Just because I want something more current doesn't mean it has to be about werewolves and vampires, or like I said above, crazy action packed robot war. There is a lot of relevant and not ridiculous literature.

Please re: the rest of my post.

[Ciano]

I'm talking about college classes, not middle school. Just because I want something more current doesn't mean it has to be about werewolves and vampires, or like I said above, crazy action packed robot war. There is a lot of relevant and not ridiculous literature.

Huck Finn, Gatsby, Death of a Salesman, Catcher in the Rye, etc. are all great pieces of literature. For some reason, when people see you don't like to read Shakespeare, they automatically assume you want to read books full of unicorns and daisies.

[Grizzly Willy]

When our teacher said "We are starting on Shakespeare's Othello next week". Everyone in the class just let out a huge sigh. My point is that our teacher is wasting his time teaching to a class that just isn't interested in a 400+ year old piece of literature. It just isn't relevant to the majority of our society.

Lack of interest does not indicate irrelevance. Being knowledgeable of the classics is important, whether you enjoy it or not. Curriculum aren't derived from the most entertaining subject matter.

Although, the Philosophy of Zombies course I'm looking at taking next semester would say otherwise...

[Taurous]

I could not care less if I had not learned Shakespeare in school. My life would probably be no different either.

---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 10:01 PM ----------

Lack of interest does not indicate irrelevance. Being knowledgeable of the classics is important, whether you enjoy it or not. Curriculum aren't derived from the most entertaining subject matter.

Although, the Philosophy of Zombies course I'm looking at taking next semester would say otherwise...

How is being knowledgeable about classics important?

[Aquabird]

The OP isn't really complaining about Shakespeare but more of how he is being taught. Shakespeare is not taught correctly in schools and is taught in the most boring way. Math and science are awesome too but the way how they are taught is awful.

The fault, dear OP, is not in the Shakespeare, but in our teachers... for they are abject failures in life which is why they became teachers in the first place.

[WarpKnight]

Because Shakespeare's stuff is still good. The stories are just as enjoyable as they ever were, if you transpose the context/settings into more easily digestible form. The difficulties in understanding them comes from the comparatively flowery language used, as well as the settings which we in modern life have little experience with.

Someone said, I don't remember who, that there are only X amount of stories to be told, and all stories are simply variations on the themes found in the X stories.

[sugarlily]

The stories are absolutely relevant, regardless of how much time has gone by & the wording is 'old fashioned'. Do you think your generation invented sex? Intrigue? Family problems? Jealousy? Anger? Love? Murder? Lying?

It's like young ppl think that ppl were SO different 'back then'. "They probably never had children out of wedlock & didn't know what oral sex was."

How is being knowledgeable about classics important?

What is past is prologue. Stories about the human condition never change. Stop whining & learn something.

I'm talking about college classes, not middle school. Just because I want something more current doesn't mean it has to be about werewolves and vampires, or like I said above, crazy action packed robot war. There is a lot of relevant and not ridiculous literature.

Every story has at it's heart something to do with the human condition; encompasses the unique and inescapable features of being human in a social, cultural, and personal context. Just b/c the 'background', clothing & exact wordage is different than you are used to doesn't make it less so.

I'm pretty sure all of those things existed before shakespeare.

---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 10:06 PM ----------

Just saying "They are TOO relevant!" does not convince me that they are relevant. I forgot he existed until I saw this thread. I've never once in my life said, "Thank god I learned about shakespeare!"

You're right! They did exist before William Shakespeare & will continue to after. His story telling & style is recognized by those who are acquainted, as having a lasting impression that still influences writers today.

Just because you see "no relevance & forgot he existed til you saw this thread" speaks volumes more to your education & retention abilities than it does against Shakespeare himself or his work.

[buck008]

So let's leave out all the arguments about a classical education, being well rounded, etc. Let's just talk about this from an English class perspective. In Chem 101, you learn the basis for everything that comes after. Same for any science or math. You need to lay the groundwork so you can see how things develop. English isn't just about the words and how they are ordered on a page. It's about how the language evolved over time. It's about how brilliant people molded the language to do things we didn't think were possible before. Learning English without Shakespeare is like learning genetics without Mendel.

[taheen74]

See the problem with this argument is that that most stories are not original. Just about any story you can think that is told today has an analog that is much, much older. William's stories are still relevant to modern times. Again studying them is not totally about the story themselves, but the critical thinking skills required to understand and apply. Instant gratification is not good, nor is it good to have potential though exercises spoon fed to you, thus negating the reason being able to think critically.

(hope that made sense...my mother-in- law AND wife were looking over my shoulder and asking questions of me.)

Shakespeare's writing can still be related to modern times. Take Romeo and Juliet- for instance. Two houses torn assunder; yet, te on of one house, and the daughter of the other fall in love. They can't truly be together because of their families dispute. West Side story- which is loosely based off Romeo and Juliet is about gangs and 2 people falling in love. Personally, I like Romeo and Juliet better. Just like remakes of old movies, updated versions of stories just don't always work real well for people.

Though, OP, do you also question why we study events that happened 200 years ago? History has a way of repeating itself.

Studying up on classic literature is basically like studying our roots.

[Taurous]

The stories are absolutely relevant, regardless of how much time has gone by & the wording is 'old fashioned'. Do you think your generation invented sex? Intrigue? Family problems? Jealousy? Anger? Love? Murder? Lying?

It's like young ppl think that ppl were SO different 'back then'. "They probably never had children out of wedlock & didn't know what oral sex was."

Stories about the human condition never change. Stop whining & learn something.

I'm pretty sure all of those things existed before shakespeare.

---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 10:06 PM ----------

Just saying "They are TOO relevant!" does not convince me that they are relevant. I forgot he existed until I saw this thread. I've never once in my life said, "Thank god I learned about shakespeare!"

[Bubbletrance]

A society with no arts, full of scientists, engineers, and financiers is a sad society.

Except the US doesn't even have that...

Honestly, the OP should just prepare for a career asking "would you like fries with that?" or "can I take your ticket please?"

Rather than spending time doing the actual work, the OP comes to complain on a video game board. If the OP wants a re-write, the OP should take it upon himself to re-write Othello. Will be a literary achievement? Probably not. But the exercise will at least deepen his understanding of what Shakespeare meant.

[Waaldo]

The OP isn't really complaining about Shakespeare but more of how he is being taught. Shakespeare is not taught correctly in schools and is taught in the most boring way. Math and science are awesome too but the way how they are taught is awful.

The fault, dear OP, is not in the Shakespeare, but in our teachers... for they are abject failures in life which is why they became teachers in the first place.

Yes! This! I never said Shakespeare is a bad writer, or that he didn't play a major contribution into the evolution of the English Language. The reason I said his writing is like a foreign language is because I am being thrown a story that is written in a way I am not used to reading. This is the first time I have ever read Shakespeare and I'm not used to having to re-read almost every line a couple of times. And my professor isn't doing a good job at making it more understandable.

[RaoBurning]

The OP isn't really complaining about Shakespeare but more of how he is being taught. Shakespeare is not taught correctly in schools and is taught in the most boring way. Math and science are awesome too but the way how they are taught is awful.

The fault, dear OP, is not in the Shakespeare, but in our teachers... for they are abject failures in life which is why they became teachers in the first place.

Breaking rules, but to the bold: fuck yourself. Not every teacher is a paragon of virtue but it takes more courage to walk into a room full of disgruntled, probably ungrateful, children every day than most jobs. Show some goddamn respect for the people trying to educate the next generation and help them get on a little better than the previous one did. If you were being sarcastic, then, well, poor choice of topic.

Mod Warning: Post respectfully at all times.

To the OP: I studied Taming of the Shrew in high school. Once I worked through ye ol' English and figured out what was going on, I found it a rather charming story. The ultimate dedication as a wing man written before we had a word for it. If someone isn't connecting Shakespeare to the modern day, they probably aren't trying hard enough.

[gunner_recall]

The OP isn't really complaining about Shakespeare but more of how he is being taught. Shakespeare is not taught correctly in schools and is taught in the most boring way. Math and science are awesome too but the way how they are taught is awful.

The fault, dear OP, is not in the Shakespeare, but in our teachers... for they are abject failures in life which is why they became teachers in the first place.

Yeah, I really don't agree with that.

Yes, there are inadequate teachers but that's either due to their schooling or because of No Child Left Behind. Yes, Shakespeare is taught in the worst manner possible in school and, unless you're very fortunate like I was, you won't learn a damn thing about him or his work. No, people who become teachers aren't abject failures at life. The reason why I became a teacher is because I wanted to provide a good role model to students, especially black students, and show them the importance of education and that they can enjoy school.

Breaking rules, but to the bold: fuck yourself. Not every teacher is a paragon of virtue but it takes more courage to walk into a room full of disgruntled, probably ungrateful, children every day than most jobs. Show some goddamn respect for the people trying to educate the next generation and help them get on a little better than the previous one did. If you were being sarcastic, then, well, poor choice of topic.

That's another thing. Dealing with students is one of the most difficult aspects of teaching.

[Bubbletrance]

The OP isn't really complaining about Shakespeare but more of how he is being taught. Shakespeare is not taught correctly in schools and is taught in the most boring way. Math and science are awesome too but the way how they are taught is awful.

The fault, dear OP, is not in the Shakespeare, but in our teachers... for they are abject failures in life which is why they became teachers in the first place.

I like how you put words in the OP's mouth. He never mentioned the teachers, just that the work itself is old and boring. It IS old... 400+ years old. It IS boring... you have to read, not play a video game!
To your comment about the teachers - if you disprove so much of teachers, become one yourself and change things.

[RaoBurning]

Yes! This! I never said Shakespeare is a bad writer, or that he didn't play a major contribution into the evolution of the English Language. The reason I said his writing is like a foreign language is because I am being thrown a story that is written in a way I am not used to reading. This is the first time I have ever read Shakespeare and I'm not used to having to re-read almost every line a couple of times. And my professor isn't doing a good job at making it more understandable.

Part of the challenge in Shakespeare is digging through his literary maze. He invented, oh, a metric ton of words. Even his contemporaries, I imagine, had an issue piecing together his work, so it's (probably) not just a modern ordeal. Seize the challenge as a way to exercise your reading skills. Again, he was writing about wing men being awesome before they were even a thing. That's deep.

---------- Post added 2012-04-07 at 05:18 AM ----------

That's another thing. Dealing with students is one of the most difficult aspects of teaching.

And parents. Oh, god, the parents. They seem to be either from the "my child can do no wrong camp" or the "my child is in what grade again?" camp. The nice ones who work with their kids and respond to teacher letters made my years in the schools a happier thing. Thanks for understanding

[Bubbletrance]

Yes! This! I never said Shakespeare is a bad writer, or that he didn't play a major contribution into the evolution of the English Language. The reason I said his writing is like a foreign language is because I am being thrown a story that is written in a way I am not used to reading. This is the first time I have ever read Shakespeare and I'm not used to having to re-read almost every line a couple of times. And my professor isn't doing a good job at making it more understandable.

Think for yourself. Maybe that's the lesson here.
Life will throw things at you that aren't used to. Take it upon yourself to deal with this. Instead of saying "it's my professor's fault he's not spoon-feeding me content" you should instead be asking "what can I do to learn more about Shakespeare and be successful?". Good luck with future bosses that toss you a project you may be unfamiliar with.

You sir, are the reason why education fails. A job of an educator isn't to feed you content so you can digest and regurgitate for a test. A job of an educator is to prepare you for life's challenges.

[Violent]

I.E. something that my generation can understand without looking of the definition of every other word because we don't normally use it in that context.

So you're saying.. Why not make your education easier, instead of learning stuff you don't normally see everyday? I'm sorry if I'm not understanding your issue here.

The reason I said his writing is like a foreign language is because I am being thrown a story that is written in a way I am not used to reading.

That is called LEARNING.. Welcome to the world, young pup.

[Waaldo]

Except the US doesn't even have that...

Honestly, the OP should just prepare for a career asking "would you like fries with that?" or "can I take your ticket please?"

Rather than spending time doing the actual work, the OP comes to complain on a video game board. If the OP wants a re-write, the OP should take it upon himself to re-write Othello. Will be a literary achievement? Probably not. But the exercise will at least deepen his understanding of what Shakespeare meant.

Right because every successful person in the entire world has extensive knowledge of Shakespeare. Get out of your perfect little bubble and open a window, not ever successful person is a college graduate.
I am not complaining about anything. There are a lot of intellectual people on these forums, I'm not expecting some professional Shakespeare critique to come here and teach me all about Shakespeare in a couple of words.

OT: You're a dick.

<Infracted> Post respectfully.